suspension issues and potential upgrades

[rrubel]

One of the last areas of my car that needs work is the suspension. It came with the Delco/Bilstein shocks originally, plus whatever springs came with that package, and currently has TPIS's custom shocks. I've got mostly urethane bushings in the dogbones and the swaybars (mostly - there are still a couple places I need to put them in). However, the car still has some issues. It almost feels wallow-y when turning at decent speed, and won't track a good line. This was even when the current tires were new. It doesn't feel "comfortable" tracking around turns, and embarrassingly enough I can take exit ramps faster in my Outback than in my Vette. It has bump-steer, where the rear gets very loose over rough pavement, and dips or bumps cause the rear to float and then move around but without the tires really losing contact (hard to describe... feels floaty?). I haven't checked the ball joints, just been greasing them twice a year or so.

I don't need a road-race setup, but it'd be nice to have better handling - and without dropping 5k. I'd rather avoid adjustable suspensions because the car sits enough that they'll freeze up (as happened to a co-worker with his F-body). I'm not really even sure where to start. My co-worker is an autocrosser, so his setup is geared towards that and he doesn't really care about daily comfort (or price, for that matter).

Suggestions?

Thanks...
[RICHR]

 

[geekinavette]

Hey Rich!

Have you done anything to the front end? A-arm bushings, steering rack, tie rod ends....yada yada? How about wheel bearings?

I found with mine that with the front A-arm poly bushings I can't run ANY toe-in...it drives like crap. We set the toe-in at zero and it likes that very much (even with 9.5" wheels on the front).

You definitely have something funky going on...that thing should be a pleasure to take a corner in, not a nightmare!

Bill

 

[rrubel]

I do have poly bushings on the A-arms in front as well as on the sway bar. The wheel bearings are both good (I replaced one when I got the car with a genuine AC Delco, and the other was done not long before). Tie rod ends were replaced some time after I got the car. Basically 12k miles or less on any replacement parts. I haven't done anything to the rack, so it's still original with a lot of miles on it.

I should get the alignment checked again, though it's not been a lot of miles (just time) since the last check.

I should mention that I'm running 17" late-C4 wheels with hub adapters, BUT... they improved the handling when I put them on (although some of that would have been the new tires as well).

[RICHR]

 

[Toms007]

Well, obviously something isn't right. I would have said the same thing Bill said. Beings you already have some new parts I'd check the rack for wear. How about the ball joints, have you had them checked?

 

[geekinavette]

Yeah make sure that rack doesn't have any "slop" in it, or any signs of "morning sickness".

Check out those ball joints too...put the front up on jackstands and use some large bar between the floor and the tire to move the tire/wheel up and down while looking directly at the ball joints. If there's any slop in 'em, that'll show it.

You may also be looking at a "custom" alignment...with the wheel setup and bushings you have, the stock alignment specs probably aren't going to be the best way to go for you.

What about the rear wheel bearings? Those can cause ill handling just as easily as the front.

 

[gmjunkie]

Yeah make sure that rack doesn't have any "slop" in it, or any signs of "morning sickness".

Check out those ball joints too...put the front up on jackstands and use some large bar between the floor and the tire to move the tire/wheel up and down while looking directly at the ball joints. If there's any slop in 'em, that'll show it.

You may also be looking at a "custom" alignment...with the wheel setup and bushings you have, the stock alignment specs probably aren't going to be the best way to go for you.

What about the rear wheel bearings? Those can cause ill handling just as easily as the front.

I agree 100%!!!The morning sickness can be cured with a bottle of Lucas P/S conditioner in less than 5 miles!! And allot of Guys don't know that the inner tie rods in the rack are replaceable!!!

 

[geekinavette]

Hey Junk! Ummmm...who the heck is "Gwenette"! hnoes

 

[rrubel]

Morning sickness? Is my steering about to give birth to a new rack? I'm not familiar with that term...

I replaced both rear bearings myself not long after getting the car, so those should be fine. With respect to a custom alignment, is that something any decent tire shop could do, or am I looking at a 'tuner' place?

I'll check out the ball joints and the steering rack.

Thanks.
[RICHR]

 

[gmjunkie]

Hey Junk! Ummmm...who the heck is "Gwenette"! hnoes

I guess I wasn't paying attention with my Spell Checker!!

Morning sickness? Is my steering about to give birth to a new rack? I'm not familiar with that term...

Oh,you'll know when it gets it!!! It's when it's cold in the morning and it takes Both Hands and 1 Foot to turn the steering wheel!!!hnoes

 

[geekinavette]

Morning sickness? Is my steering about to give birth to a new rack? I'm not familiar with that term...
[RICHR]

:L If only!

"Morning sickness" is when the rack develops a "dead spot" usually about halfway between center and either extreme...like when you're making say a sharp turn and about halfway through the turn the steering becomes incredibly difficult, like it just lost power steering, then as you continue through the turn it "comes back" and you end up doing an unintentional U-turn! This usually happens when the fluid is cold, in the morning...thus the term "morning sickness". It was VERY common among '84s when the rack & pinion system was first introduced, maybe that was solved by 85.

It doesn't sound like you are experiencing this...you'd KNOW it!

 

[geekinavette]

I guess I wasn't paying attention with my Spell Checker!!

Ok...I just wondered if you knew something I didn't!

Oh,you'll know when it gets it!!! It's when it's cold in the morning and it takes Both Hands and 1 Foot to turn the steering wheel!!!hnoes

When I got mine it had THE worst case of morning sickness (I had a '84 Celebrity back in the day that developed the same problem). It's a dam wonder I never got pulled over for drunk driving as bad as that thing was jerking all over the place!

 

[gmjunkie]

Morning sickness? With respect to a custom alignment, is that something any decent tire shop could do,

Yeah,they should be able to do it,but most now days are just Toe and Go Artists!!Your really Looking for a Shop that really Specializes Suspension and Alignment,and actually knows and understands the geometrics of alignment and how to set one up with out a computer program!!

 

[jmccloud]

Loose rear over rough pavement

Last summer I replaced the rear sway bar end connector bushings to get rid of a sporadic clunk, thunk and squeak when going over mild bumps. A pleasant surprise; nearly every running noise in the car is gone, and so is the rear end 'float' when cornering on a wash board road.
If you haven't replaced them, it's inexpensive and well worthwhile. It tries the patience somewhat but a long bolt, some appropriate deep well sockets (for spacers) and lots of lube make it possible to do while the sway bar remains in the car.
Good luck