Help! Trouble Installing new door panels. . .

[Bolisk]

So, I've recently received my new door panels for my 1970 Corvette. They are the standard door panels, and they look ok. . .but I'm a little disappointed in quality of some of the elements of the panels.

So, first thing I noticed (which was after I started modifing the panel so I can't return them) was that the decorative cross weaved pad above the arm rest is not nearly as nice as the origionals. It's almost as if the pressing machine did not press hard enough to really make a good mould. The result looks like it's warnout.

The next thing I noticed is that the hole in the ABS for the windcrank. . .is not even close to being centered with the acutal window crank on the door. So I've had to do a lot of cutting of ABS in order to get the hole in the right location.

Next I noticed that the new door pulls do not fully insert into the new panels. Meaning when I put them in the new door panel. . .they dont seat all the way in. . .the hit the ABS plastic before they seat flush with the vynal on the panel surface. The new door pulls do however fit perfectly in the old door panels.

Next the screw holes in the ABS for the door pulls are no where near the correct location for mounting holes in the door pulls or the door it'self.

Lastly. . .I had the manufacturer install the lock plate and the U-trim. Oddly enough. . .the ABS holes were not lined up for that either. . .and the manufacture also seemed to make the appropriate comensations to make sure they were installed correctly. . .THANK GOD. So the hole in the lock plate does line up correctly.

Yes. . .i've tripple checked that these door panels are the correct pannel from my car and door. Yes, my doors are correct for the car. However, my car is a Feb built 70. . .is there a possibility that the doors are actually 69?. . .and the don't line up right.

Next when I temporarily hang the door panel on the door, I noticed that the upper left and right screw holes don't line up with the origional holes made in the actual door frame. The one on the left is an 3/4 of an inch too high, and the one on the right is approximatly a half inch up and to the right.

Soo. . .when I closely compare the too door panels, the new one has a nice crisp 90 degree shoulder in how the top part of the panel attaches to the top of the door. The origional pannel on the other hand. . .appears to have been collaped so that the pannel was hanign down a bit. This seems to explain why the screw holes don't line up. . .it's almost as if someone in the factory smashed down on the top of the pannel to the door. . .effectivly breaking the fiberboad/fiberglass origional backing. . .causing the mounting holes to be drilled slightly off.

So the first question is. . .should I just drill new screw holes (for the upper right and left mounting screws. . .i.e. the ones that go through the door). . . because there is no hope of getting them to line up with the origional holes?

Next, should I just cut out the ABS in the door pull hole completely. . .so that they seat all the way?

The next question is. . .is all of this normal! Has anyone else seen these problems with door pannels. I'm rather dissapointed so far.

My last question is, how in the hell do I get the pannel to stick to the door frame. After I've mounted all the clips and screwed everything up. . .the forward edge of the pannel (by the hindge) does not want to stay attached to the door. . .and those pannel clips (the plastic velcro type things) don't seem to hold. Almost as of the pannel is not shaped correctly.

Any help / suggestions would be great.

Best Regards,
Bolisk

 

[petes74ttop]

Sorry to hear that you are having so may problems, I can't offer any help but I would like to change mine this year, can you tell me who you got them from so I can order from someone else? PG.

 

[Bolisk]

Al Knoch Interiors.

 

[LVMYVT76]

have you contacted Al Knoch about your problems? They ususally have good parts.

 

[6880 Mike]

...have you contacted Al Knoch about your problems? They ususally have good parts...

I agree. Contact Al Knoch. Their interiors are usually about the best you can buy.

It's possible your doors were actually manufactured late in 1969 and installed on your car in February 1970, but not likely; no real difference in the 69 and 70 doors anyway.

 

[crowvet]

So, I've recently received my new door panels for my 1970 Corvette. They are the standard door panels, and they look ok. . .but I'm a little disappointed in quality of some of the elements of the panels.

So, first thing I noticed (which was after I started modifing the panel so I can't return them) was that the decorative cross weaved pad above the arm rest is not nearly as nice as the origionals. It's almost as if the pressing machine did not press hard enough to really make a good mould. The result looks like it's warnout.

The next thing I noticed is that the hole in the ABS for the windcrank. . .is not even close to being centered with the acutal window crank on the door. So I've had to do a lot of cutting of ABS in order to get the hole in the right location.

Next I noticed that the new door pulls do not fully insert into the new panels. Meaning when I put them in the new door panel. . .they dont seat all the way in. . .the hit the ABS plastic before they seat flush with the vynal on the panel surface. The new door pulls do however fit perfectly in the old door panels.

Next the screw holes in the ABS for the door pulls are no where near the correct location for mounting holes in the door pulls or the door it'self.

Lastly. . .I had the manufacturer install the lock plate and the U-trim. Oddly enough. . .the ABS holes were not lined up for that either. . .and the manufacture also seemed to make the appropriate comensations to make sure they were installed correctly. . .THANK GOD. So the hole in the lock plate does line up correctly.

Yes. . .i've tripple checked that these door panels are the correct pannel from my car and door. Yes, my doors are correct for the car. However, my car is a Feb built 70. . .is there a possibility that the doors are actually 69?. . .and the don't line up right.

Next when I temporarily hang the door panel on the door, I noticed that the upper left and right screw holes don't line up with the origional holes made in the actual door frame. The one on the left is an 3/4 of an inch too high, and the one on the right is approximatly a half inch up and to the right.

Soo. . .when I closely compare the too door panels, the new one has a nice crisp 90 degree shoulder in how the top part of the panel attaches to the top of the door. The origional pannel on the other hand. . .appears to have been collaped so that the pannel was hanign down a bit. This seems to explain why the screw holes don't line up. . .it's almost as if someone in the factory smashed down on the top of the pannel to the door. . .effectivly breaking the fiberboad/fiberglass origional backing. . .causing the mounting holes to be drilled slightly off.

So the first question is. . .should I just drill new screw holes (for the upper right and left mounting screws. . .i.e. the ones that go through the door). . . because there is no hope of getting them to line up with the origional holes?

Next, should I just cut out the ABS in the door pull hole completely. . .so that they seat all the way?

The next question is. . .is all of this normal! Has anyone else seen these problems with door pannels. I'm rather dissapointed so far.

My last question is, how in the hell do I get the pannel to stick to the door frame. After I've mounted all the clips and screwed everything up. . .the forward edge of the pannel (by the hindge) does not want to stay attached to the door. . .and those pannel clips (the plastic velcro type things) don't seem to hold. Almost as of the pannel is not shaped correctly.

Any help / suggestions would be great.

Best Regards,
Bolisk

I installed a used pair off a 76 onto a 75. Would you believe I had some of the same issues. I think these door panel manufactures play horseshoes to much. Good luck
Daryle

 

[KOPBET]

No problems with mine from Al Knoch.

Excellent qualilty. Any installation issues were of my own making.

Are you sure the panel is seated all the way down at the top?

 

[Bolisk]

Yup! When the door panel is placed on the door, I give it a good wiggle to make sure it's seated completely. The door panel's permiter fits perfectly. Nothing else does.

 

[KOPBET]

Yup! When the door panel is placed on the door, I give it a good wiggle to make sure it's seated completely.

It takes more than a good wiggle to get in on. I had to hold the panel at about 45 degrees and push, flex quite a bit to get the aluminum lip of the panel over the tangs on the door frame. You will have to cut away a fair amount of plastic backing in order to completely clear the crank mechanism. In other words, more than just the shaft extending from the crank and enough to clear the surrounding housing.

 

[Bolisk]

hmmm. . .

Perhaps I will take some photos and figure out a way to post them.

On my new door panels there is a metal "tray" if you will at the top. . .which is what you have to get over the metal tangs at the top. In my case 45% degrees is too much. I have to place the panel on the door, pull the bottom out about 2 inches from the door it's self. . .and it drops into place. I have to give it a wiggle back and forth. . .so that it drops down completely past the weather stripping on the top left and right of the door.

Like I memtioned before. When I get the door panel on. . .it is correctly mounted to the door. . .meaning that all of the perimiter gaps are correct, and the lock shaft is centered in the lock plate. When it's on it looks good. The problem is all the "through holes" that I have to mount things through.

So in the case of the window crank. There is a hole cut in the ABS backing for where the crank should be. Theoretically, all I would have left to do is to cut though the foam and vynal. The problem is, the hole in the ABS is disterbuingly off center from where the actual door handle crank is.

I know that I have to cut off a bunch to make sure the whole window crank "thingy" (call it the post) will fit through the panel. I did that. . .but it required a bunch of cutting into the ABS. Thank god i didn't just cut the hole that was marked by the ABS. . .as I would have had a very visable hole to fix . . .even if I mounted the crank plate.

The other issues are the screw that go through the door at the upper right and left. Those don't come close to the origional screw hole locations. Additionally, the Little holes drilled in the ABS where the door pulls are attached. . .are also out of alignment with the origional holes in the door. however they are very close.

Note, that when I get to door panel on. the only wholes that were pre-cut on the new panel. . .that are in alighment are the lock post, and the two lower clips that mount to the side of the door.

I called Al Knoch this morning to get tech support. . .and they took my name and number so that someone could get back to me. . .haven't heard anything yet.

Oh yeah. . .one more thing that I don't understand. Does anyone else's Al Knoch door panels have silver colored stapels attaching the upper window seal to the door panel!?!? the origionals where black. These silver ones are VERY noticeable when you come up to the door from the outside.

 

[Bolisk]

Hey KOPBET, do you have a KWIKLIFT in your garage!?! It looks like it from the door panel photos. . .

 

[KOPBET]

Hey KOPBET, do you have a KWIKLIFT in your garage!?! It looks like it from the door panel photos. . .

Yes I do. Love it too.

If I recall, the screw holes for the pulls were at an angle anyway. I had to punch a hole in a slightly different spot for the two upper screws as they did not line up quite right, but the variance was small.

 

[Bolisk]

Dude! Your my hero! I want one of those bad. . .haven't been able to convince the wife that my life is worth one of those.


I'll take some photos and post them later tonight.

 

[KOPBET]

..haven't been able to convince the wife that my life is worth one of those.

Now that's a sad commentary if I ever heard one!!!! hnoes

I didn't ask my wife ...

If you get one, make sure you have, or buy, a floor jack with sufficient height range to work the lift (19in high extended and 5 inches high when down).

 

[Bolisk]

AHHH HAA! Now I see what you are getting at Kobet!

First, I would like to say thanks to all that provided feedback. I successfully installed the new driver side door panel. I had to drill new holes in the door for the upper panel screws. But everything looks good. (completed photo below).

Now, i've moved on to the passenger door panel. . .and wow. . .what a differnce!!! This one is MUCH harder to install. And here i thought the first door panel was a pain. :L

First, I couldn't get the damn panel on the door. . .I couldn't get the aluminum lip over the tabs on the door! Even if I did the 45 degree trick that Kobet mentioned. Takening a closer look at the new panel. . .it looked as if someone at Al Knock forgot to trim off the extra aluminum on the wheather strip side of the aluminum lip on the new panel. There was close to a half inch of extra aluminum hanging down. On the other door panel. . .and on the origionals. . .that aluminum lip was flush with the bottom of the weather strip. So after trimming the extra aluminum off. . .vowla! Sliped right on!! Now, the next problem is . . .the damn panel doesn't appear to sit all the way down. I need the entire door panel to come down about a 1/16 - 1/4 inch so that the lock shaft is centered vertically in the lock plate hole. But for the life of me. . .I cannot get the damn thing down. I'm afraid to go after it with a rubber mallet. Anyone got any other ideas?


View attachment 15612

View attachment 15613

 

[Bolisk]

soooo. . .try as I might I cannot get the door panel to come down any further. Both the leading and trailing edges are completely seated. . .but the lock shaft is still down about a quarter inch.

Does anyone know of the door lock / latch assembly can be moved up at all? Is it adjustable at all?

 

[pbcanney]

soooo. . .try as I might I cannot get the door panel to come down any further. Both the leading and trailing edges are completely seated. . .but the lock shaft is still down about a quarter inch.

Does anyone know of the door lock / latch assembly can be moved up at all? Is it adjustable at all?

this is seriously strange. I was going to say yesterday that both my doors were pushed outward (the metal part where all the hardware mounts) from what I conclude is 110k loving miles of use. So I wondered if this was a common issue.

but....

if the lock isn't lining up
is the window crank?
and you mentioned you drilled new holes for the screws...

I dont think your seated 100% yet.

but, I've never owened an earlier C3, so Its a wag on my end.

 

[Bolisk]

The driver side. . .is where I had to drill new holes. . .and that turned out great. Everything lined up other than those new screw holes.

The passenger door. . .NOTHING lines up. As far as I can tell the door panel is all the way down. . .at least on top. . .when compared to the driver door.

 

[pbcanney]

then I would measure the lock from the bottom of the door and the hole in the panel from the bottom of itself.

maybe you got a bad one. :confused

I tried researching the differences between a 70 and 69 door panel yesterday for you but came up with nada useful.

sorry

 

[Bolisk]

Update! I took everyones advice, and I called Al Knoch. They were very helpful over the phone and told me that they would do what is nessecicary to make sure that I got a door panel that fit. So I chatted with one of their Tech's and he agreeed that I seemed to have tried all the things he could think off. So he asked me to send the door panel back to them. After about a month of mailing mishaps, and slow shipping service. . .the door panel finally arived back at Al Knoch. Additionally, I included detailed photographs of the door and how it didn't fit. . .and I took very carful measurments of the door and sent them along with the panel.

However, when they tested the door, it fit perfectly in their "test" door. . .they even e-mailed me photos to prove it. When I asked what they did that was maybe different. . .or what kind of physical effort they had to apply. ..they responded with "None, it just ploped right in place!". They also told me that my measurements were identical to their test door.

Needless to say was became very fustrated. Their tech said that he would make some modifications to the door to ensure that certain things did not get in the way with the installation (e.g. the bolt heads on the door). They then shipped the door back to me (at my expense. . .which was the only part of the whole experience that I didn't like). . .and I proceded to place the newly modified door panel on the door. . .only to find that it still didn't fit. . .and it didn't fit in exactly the same fashion as it hadn't before I sent it to them. Must be me right? Not as far as I can tell. . .

So, I deceided to take the other door panel (diver side) off the car. . .and I started to compare the door's and panels. I must have spent four hours measuring every little detail of the door and both doors were 100% identical mirror images of one another. The door panels were exactly the same in dimention. . .but not in construction. The pasenger door panel was noticably different than the other in build quality. . .and attention to detail. The finish (exterior) was identical though. So. . .I set about my work making the passenger door panel look exactly the same as the other door panel (on the inside). After several hours of modiciations to the ABS and metal channel plate. . .I was able to get the pannel to fit "better". . .but not close to how I feel it should fit. Eventually. . .I got it to a point where I can get the door handle in the hole. . .and the lock knob to turn without binding. it's good enough so that no one would notice. . .but it's not as good as I would like.

So. . .am I happy with Al Knoch? It's a mixed bag. The customer service was spectacular. I cannot say enough about them. They seemed to be genuenally interested in making sure my door panels would fit. They did tell me that if the panel still didn't fit to give them a call. I didn't do that because I got to the point where I wanted to know what the hell was going on with my door. ..and I figured that i would completely butcher the panel before I called them again. Thankfully, I got it to work . . . so I didn't bother them again.

Having said that, the door panels did not just "drop-in' as many have suggested they would. . .and the effort to install them was far more than I could have immagined. However, I'm not sure how much of that is the fault of Al Knoch. . .if any. I would say that the only real issue that I have with them that I can say with 100% certainty, is that the door panles are not of equal or better quality to the origional door panels (which i have). They are very nice, but are noticably less nice than my origionals. In particular, the "pressing" of the weave pattern in the top half of the door. The origional was very defined and deep. The replacements are not very defined (almost used looking), and very shallow. Will I buy from them again. . .probably. . .but only because everyone still says they are the best. . .so I'm assuming that all the rest must be really bad.

Thanks for everyones help.
-JR