Question: What is causing my '89 to stall?

[touring turtle]

Problem is solved. Filler cap was clogged. Fuel tank becomes vacuum. Things get worse when I filled up the tank. I took things apart from the filler cap, cleaned them and everything works OK.
Maybe it's also a solution for the darkred89flyer. Can be checked easily. Make a drive, with the filler cap removed.

 

[Paddywhack]

Look inside your gas tank for anything that shouldn't be there. I had a bead of silicone floating around one time that caused similiar actions. Under acceleration, it would get sucked into the screen and slow the flow, sit for a second and it would fall off and slosh around..didnt always get sucked up, just if it happened to be floating by when I was accelerating.. What it was doing in the tank in the first place is beyond me
Good luck!

 

[keremarsan]

Hi

also check the VATS vehicle anti theft system ....

it is strange, can you give more details how it stalls , when it stalls , fuel pump is still functionning ? if not , gas tank sending unit connections can stop intermittently the fuel pump . I had this problem on my 88 .

also check the Iddle Air Control Valve ( IACV )

VATS can give a code but others will not give any code...

Good luck

 

[DarkRed89Flyer]

Hi

also check the VATS vehicle anti theft system ....

it is strange, can you give more details how it stalls , when it stalls , fuel pump is still functionning ? if not , gas tank sending unit connections can stop intermittently the fuel pump . I had this problem on my 88 .

also check the Iddle Air Control Valve ( IACV )

VATS can give a code but others will not give any code...

Good luck

Hi Keremarsan:

When it stalls, it acts as if someone is turning off a light switch. It doesn't have the typical reaction of being fuel-starved (sputtering before it dies). I'm not sure how I would check to see if the fuel pump is still running. I've had a fuel pressure gauge attached when it stalls, and the reading doesn't change, at least not immediately. I can't go on sound alone, because even when the engine is running, I can't hear the pump running. I hear it for a couple of seconds when I turn the key on, but after that the exhaust note drowns out any sound from the fuel pump. There's no consistency with when it stalls. I'm afraid to get it out on the street because it doesn't give any warning when it stalls, it just stops, but I can leave it idling in the driveway and it may run only for a few minutes or for hours before it stops.

I recently had it in the shop again to have them check the work they had already done. That was all OK, so they did more testing. This time, they replaced the entire distributor assembly and declared the problem solved. BUT, when I picked it up, I didn't get a block before it stalled again. This time, however, it acted differently and after paying closer attention to the gauges, I discovered that the shop had run it out of gas. Only, after I went to the gas station and put more gas from gas cans, it still wouldn't run correctly. I finally had to have it towed. I should have had it taken back to the shop, but they were already closed for the day, so I brought it home. It's been sitting here for more than 2 weeks now with no progress on a solution.

Now, I'm thinking that maybe it is the VATS or a faulty ignition lock considering that it shuts off as if I'd turned off the key. I'm so frustrated with this, because it wasn't doing any of this when I bought it in February, that I don't know what to think or what else it might be.

 

[vette079]

In case of if it could be the vats, try this.
Lock the doors from the inside with the power doorlock switch, close the door, unlock from the outside again with the key.
Do this a few times, note the security light if it is flashing or on steady.
And check your ajar switches in both doors, actually you should check the wiring to them.
If I´m not mistaking, they are connected to the vats system as well.

 

[boomdriver]

DRF..

I've never heard of VATS stalling a running car. I think its locked out after ignition and cannot effect the system until dist pulses end or the key goes to off.

I would look at the steering collumn ign switch by your foot. Its hard to get to (for a reason) but its the "key" to run/off/on of the engine electrical.

Also look at the wiring harness behind the dist. Get it running and wiggle the harness to see if you have a broken wire hidden in the sleeve.

 

[keremarsan]

Probably it is not related to fuel pump becasause, if fuel pump stops, it takes some seconds to finish the fuel in the rail and begin to surge and stops atfer all this. It is like , you lost electrical source and engine stops after that.

When you try to restart , it restarts immediatly or do not restart at all ? if it not restart at all , when it stalls, disconnect the battery ( negatif cable ) for more then 20 seconds , reconnect the negatif cable and see if it restarts again .

There can be a short on one of the injectors so also check the ground ,

Just one thing !!!

There is return home mode in our cars ( it is also the diagonosis connection to get error codes ) on the ALDL socket , connect A to the ground with a paper clip or pice of cable ( on the upper side, the very right ones of the ALDL )

In this case , car will use only some sensors , start the car with ALDL A connected to ground , and see if it stalls or not , just to check if it keeps running or not ,

Please get also the opinion of Hib or other experiented members before doing this .... - I did this when my ECM got bad and even with the ECM malfunctionning , the car can continue to run normally without most of the sensors used - if the car keeps running, maybe there is a bad connection / function on one of the main sensors , a ground problem , on injector harness etc.

Keep us in touch with your situation and do not give up , it will be fine in the end ))

Hi Keremarsan:

When it stalls, it acts as if someone is turning off a light switch. It doesn't have the typical reaction of being fuel-starved (sputtering before it dies). I'm not sure how I would check to see if the fuel pump is still running. I've had a fuel pressure gauge attached when it stalls, and the reading doesn't change, at least not immediately. I can't go on sound alone, because even when the engine is running, I can't hear the pump running. I hear it for a couple of seconds when I turn the key on, but after that the exhaust note drowns out any sound from the fuel pump. There's no consistency with when it stalls. I'm afraid to get it out on the street because it doesn't give any warning when it stalls, it just stops, but I can leave it idling in the driveway and it may run only for a few minutes or for hours before it stops.

I recently had it in the shop again to have them check the work they had already done. That was all OK, so they did more testing. This time, they replaced the entire distributor assembly and declared the problem solved. BUT, when I picked it up, I didn't get a block before it stalled again. This time, however, it acted differently and after paying closer attention to the gauges, I discovered that the shop had run it out of gas. Only, after I went to the gas station and put more gas from gas cans, it still wouldn't run correctly. I finally had to have it towed. I should have had it taken back to the shop, but they were already closed for the day, so I brought it home. It's been sitting here for more than 2 weeks now with no progress on a solution.

Now, I'm thinking that maybe it is the VATS or a faulty ignition lock considering that it shuts off as if I'd turned off the key. I'm so frustrated with this, because it wasn't doing any of this when I bought it in February, that I don't know what to think or what else it might be.

 

[FForward]

Have you checked the injectors resistance? You might have a bad one, if you do the ECM may shut them all down. I had a similar problem with mine. All my electrics were good as was fuel pressure. Mine would quit, then after a bit it would start again. You most likely have the orignal injectors which are multitecs and they are junk. That was my problem! I changed to Bosch Gen III's and it solved my problem. Don't use fuel cleaners thinking that will help either, they will only worsen the problem on those injectors. Good luck!

 

[DarkRed89Flyer]

First, let me say "Thank You" to all of you who tried to help me with my issue. But, here's an update...

I took it to a different shop, and after much testing, it was discovered that 2 of the spark plugs installed during the tune-up at the other shop were defective. The ceramic insulators on both were cracked allowing the charge to "leak," causing a misfire in the #1 and #2 cylinders. The shop couldn't find any other reason for the stalling situation.

After I got it back, it ran great at speed, but it still had an intermittent rough idle. A friend and I made a road-trip to Las Vegas the weekend of September 16th. It ran great for the entire trip and averaged a quite-respectable 28 MPG.

I've been driving it everyday back-and-forth to work since then. However, today when I tried to leave for work, the SES light came on as soon as I got the engine started. Not wanting to get stranded on the freeway during my 27 mile morning commute, I decided to stay home.

I read the ECM code and it has set "36." The description in my book says, "Ignition system circuit error or Transaxle (4T60E) shift problem." This is vague, at best, but since my '89 has the THM 700-R4 automatic, the ignition error must apply.

My question is, since I already had ALL of the ignition system components replaced, what is setting this error? Any ideas?

 

[keremarsan]

Hi

There is a electronic spark control modul which is located on the passenger side , opposite part of the battery , this module can be faulty or there is a spark control modul connector on the rear left part of the engine compartment I think near the brake booster , this connector can be loosen or any shortcut in the ignition system ,

all spark plug cables were changed soon ? maybe time to change if not,

good luck



I took it to a different shop, and after much testing, it was discovered that 2 of the spark plugs installed during the tune-up at the other shop were defective. The ceramic insulators on both were cracked allowing the charge to "leak," causing a misfire in the #1 and #2 cylinders. The shop couldn't find any other reason for the stalling situation.

After I got it back, it ran great at speed, but it still had an intermittent rough idle. A friend and I made a road-trip to Las Vegas the weekend of September 16th. It ran great for the entire trip and averaged a quite-respectable 28 MPG.

I've been driving it everyday back-and-forth to work since then. However, today when I tried to leave for work, the SES light came on as soon as I got the engine started. Not wanting to get stranded on the freeway during my 27 mile morning commute, I decided to stay home.

I read the ECM code and it has set "36." The description in my book says, "Ignition system circuit error or Transaxle (4T60E) shift problem." This is vague, at best, but since my '89 has the THM 700-R4 automatic, the ignition error must apply.

My question is, since I already had ALL of the ignition system components replaced, what is setting this error? Any ideas?[/QUOTE]

 

[DarkRed89Flyer]

Hi

There is a electronic spark control modul which is located on the passenger side , opposite part of the battery , this module can be faulty or there is a spark control modul connector on the rear left part of the engine compartment I think near the brake booster , this connector can be loosen or any shortcut in the ignition system ,

all spark plug cables were changed soon ? maybe time to change if not,

good luck


The ESC module was replaced a couple of months ago, when I first started having my stalling issues, but that's not to say it hasn't come unconnected. I will check that out today. The spark plug wires were replaced in May, so they have less than 1,000 miles on them. I doubt that the wires are an issue.


UPDATE! I checked the ESC module's connections. They are clean and tight. I even swapped the newer one for the original one I took off. This didn't make a difference, so I put the newer one back on. I'm still getting the SES light intermittently, but not on every start-up like I was getting. Matter-of-fact, I haven't seen it at all in the last couple of weeks. Could this be caused by "bad" gas, even though I always fill up with 91 octane?

Other than the short description in my service manual, there are no other references to what could cause a code "36." Anyone else have any ideas?

 

[DarkRed89Flyer]

Here's An Update!

I did as someone suggested and bought a whole new set of injectors, although I didn't get them at FIC. After spending several hundred dollars doing that, it didn't solve the issues. I still have the rough idle and a lean condition. However, I did solve the stalling problem. Come to find out, the spark plugs installed, when the first shop did the "standard fix," which really didn't fix anything, were defective, or incorrectly installed. Two of them had cracks in the ceramic insulator and were apparently grounding out. The #1 and #2 cylinders were both affected. It makes me think that the tech over-torqued them while installing them. Not for lack of trying, but I've resigned myself to just putting up with the rough idle because none of the shops I've taken it to can seem to find a reason for the rough idle. Like you, I've replaced the entire ignition system, including the coil, distributor, ignition module and ESC, the fuel filter & pump strainer, the EGR valve, the valve solenoid and all associated vacuum lines, and checked the engine grounds and TPS. The last shop I took it to (the ones who found the screwed up spark plugs) did some kind of special test to check for air leaks around the runners and plenum and couldn't find any leaks there either. The only thing I haven't changed is the MAF sensor, which the last shop supposedly cleaned while cleaning the IAC. The only other thing I haven't changed is the O2 sensor, but on a recent trip from here in Mesa to Las Vegas, I averaged 28MPG, including driving on "The Strip," which as you probably know is bumper-to-bumper traffic on the weekends, and that was with the A/C on the entire trip.