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What octane rating

  • Thread starter Thread starter Don Strausburg
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Don Strausburg

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:confusedHi everyone. I'm a brand new virgin to this site. I own a 1964 Coupe with a 327 300hp. Since this vehicle ran on leaded gas when it was new I need to know what octane rating I should use now. The original owners manual was saying 99 octane, but that was with leaded gas. Thanks for any help.
 
:confusedHi everyone. I'm a brand new virgin to this site. I own a 1964 Coupe with a 327 300hp. Since this vehicle ran on leaded gas when it was new I need to know what octane rating I should use now. The original owners manual was saying 99 octane, but that was with leaded gas. Thanks for any help.


99 octane..... imagine what they would get for that at the pump:mad
 
my stock '65 L76 365hp has a higher compression than your 300hp (11.0:1 vs 10.5:1) and I run 93 hi-test with no knocking/pinging. total timing is set at 36º all in by 3,000rpm.

you should be able to run that also. You might be able to run 89 or 91 octane without detonation depending on your timing, and how your motor is built - after 44 years who knows who has been inside your motor and what parts are there and what your true actual compression is.
Personally I never tried to run any octane lower than 93 on mine.

As for the hardened valve seats it's my understanding that unless you are using the car as a daily driver and putting a lot of milage on it and/or using the car under extreme hi load situations like pulling a trailer up steep mountain roads (not too common for a Vette usually) than the hardened valve seats are not really needed.
 
Great to have you to the site, running 93 octane in my 63 327/300, not like I need the extra umph, mine has a power glide with the 3.36. Tank of gas last about 3 months. Never tried a lower grade to see if pinging.

Andy
 
Leaded versus unleaded?

As for the hardened valve seats it's my understanding that unless you are using the car as a daily driver and putting a lot of milage on it and/or using the car under extreme hi load situations like pulling a trailer up steep mountain roads (not too common for a Vette usually) than the hardened valve seats are not really needed.

Just curious about the leaded versus unleaded thing.....I was told early on that the older engines built to run on leaded gas would have problems with unleaded gas. The problem (as I understood it) was the angle of the valve face to the stem differed on the newer unleaded heads to create a wider face. Since the valve cooled thru the seat (while closed), the narrower valve face would not cool adequately, thus burning the valves prematurely. Is this true? And if so, do you fellas with the C1's and C2's run some type of lead additive?

Dennis ;shrug
 
I have no problem running 93 unleaded in either my '65 or my '78.
I use no extra additives.
 
Thanks to all for replying to my unleaded gas question. I guess I'll just keep running high test and not worry about it. One other thing I should have mentioned was that when I start the car white smoke comes out just for a short while. It doesnt burn oil at all. There is also like a semi sweet smell to it. Is that normal?:W
 
Thanks to all for replying to my unleaded gas question. I guess I'll just keep running high test and not worry about it. One other thing I should have mentioned was that when I start the car white smoke comes out just for a short while. It doesnt burn oil at all. There is also like a semi sweet smell to it. Is that normal?:W
You've got a bad head gasket or cracked head!!:ohnoes:upthumbs
 
yup, sounds like a blown head gasket or cracked head, time to get that fixed...you can have a coolant pressure test performed which will confirm that for you...do you see any oil in the coolant?

...i wouldn't go crazy over the octane grade, that's mostly hype, IMO

...i run both my big block (~9.5:1) and the small block (started out as a 350/365hp with the factory heads and factory pop-up pistons, what was that, maybe 11.0:1?) on whatever they call premium around here (all the advance is in by 3,000 rpm and i figure my static compression is about 10.6:1 (aftermarket aluminum heads with much larger combustion chambers))...



..don't go nuts looking for the highest octane, heck my sb will run on plus with no pinging but i only did that for a tankful


....the ME's will correct me here but i think SAE (or whomever does this stuff) went to a different method of calculating octane values a number of years back so it may not be a valid comparison of octane values now vs. then


....get the water leak fixed and then fill it what ever gas is available and doesn't ping...you'll be fine
 
It does sound like you are getting some coolant into the combustion chamber. Have you warmed the engine up with the radiator cap removed and watched for air bubbles coming up in the coolant? Remove the cap with the engine cold then warm it up. If you don't want to pull the heads this summer you can try some cooling system sealer like Barrs Leak. It's not a perminant fix but might stop the leak until driving season is over this year.

Also pulling the spark plugs should show which cylinder/s are sucking in coolant. There will be deposits on the electrode.

Tom
 
Thanks for all the info. I will take it in next week and have the heads and gasket checked. I will take off the rad cap and cold start it and watch. The car runs at a constant 180 even in hot weather. I have never had to add any coolant as it is always the same level in expansion tank. Thanks.:W
 
When they check it they can also pressurize the system like they would to look for a radiator leak and watch for bubbles.
 
yeah, post away when you figure this one out:confused


...i re-read tom's post and he makes a good point...i had a sumbi_ch water leak in the sb and i tried every goddamned sealant that i could find...and i did EVERY one according to the instructions, flushed out the antifreeze, etc, etc, etc :hb nothing worked

...we have a NAPA in hopewell borough and the counter guy told me the best coolant sealant he ever saw was this stuff - blue something or other - $60 A CAN!!!!!!

worked


hell of lot cheaper than pulling the heads...the problem with an old block is that you will strip the head bolts threads when you go to tighten the head back down, no surprises there...so try the coolant route first

good luck!
 
There seems to be some confusion about cooling service here, especially in the above post.

Leave the cooling system sealers for Larry the Cable Guy.

Never use them in an engine which you want to cool sucessfully. Virtually all sealers which actually seal holes coat the entire inside of the cooling system, engine and radiator, with a pliable material. That's what "fills" the holes. The problem is that sealer is also an insulator so...yeah, you might stop the leak but you also decrease the cooling system's effectiveness. Then, if you take some dim bulb's advice that "some is good, so more is better" and attempt to use sealer, again, because the leak didn't stop the first time; you coat the entire system even more the second time. That really decreases cooling action.

If your Corvette's radiator, block, heads or head gaskets leak, don't put "stop-leak" in the system, repair the problem in the proper manner.

As for the car which starts with a puff of white smoke and smells sweet...the chances are very good you have a small head gasket leak or a cracked head. You shut the motor off and a small amount of coolant pools in the combustion chambers. You fire the engine the next time, the coolant gets burned then cylinder pressure keeps the coolant from flowing back into the chamber.

As for the 327/300 and octane...If you live where it's below 3000 ft and you drive the car even halfway hard, use the highest octane pump gas you can find. The problem with the 300 horse engine is that, yes it has only 10.5:1 CR but it also has a camshaft with short duration. The mild cam causes high cylinder pressure and that tends to make the engine more prone to detonation. Gerally, with cast iron heads 9.5 or 9.75:1 is about as high as you can go and still stay out of detonation, if the spark curve is optimal. With 10.5 and a short-duration cam you may even have to use a combination of 91/93-oct gas and slight spark retard to keep the engine out of detonation.

Finally, the unleaded gas and non-hardened valve seat issue....this can be a durability problem heads on engines which get driven in a sporting manner. The best solution is a Red Line Oil product called "Lead Substitute", a sodium-based fuel additive which offers protection against valve seat recession to the same level as did tetraethyl lead when it was in gasoline in the old days. If the engine is never run hard, ie: easy driving and shows, then you don't need to wory with unleaded fuel. If the car driven in a more aggressive manner than that, and you have pre-71 heads with non-hardened seats, you need Lead Substitute.
 
...we have a NAPA in hopewell borough and the counter guy told me the best coolant sealant he ever saw was this stuff - blue something or other - $60 A CAN!!!!!!

worked


hell of lot cheaper than pulling the heads...the problem with an old block is that you will strip the head bolts threads when you go to tighten the head back down, no surprises there...so try the coolant route first

good luck!
Blue Devil??(Blue and Yellow Qt can??)
Oh Man, Then keep a close eye on your water Pump,your going to have another water leak!!!:beer
 
yup, blue devil

no problems with the water pump...what's the scoop????
 
yup, blue devil

no problems with the water pump...what's the scoop????
;shrug;shrugJust every one that I've seen it used on the water pump went out within a couple months,1 of them had a new pump too!!;shrug;shrugI've never used it in anything except a old Death Rattle Caddy I bought to get home in from Florida after selling all we took down there!!It had a bad water pump and I put one on it and then figured out it had a bad head or head gasket too!!Flushed it,Blue Deviled it and headed home.The new water pump went out on the way in Colombia SC and I changed it again!!!:hb:hb Made it home and used it around here as a Loner while I was working on customers cars and the pump went out on a customer and they CooKed It!!!:L:L:LSo I junked it!!!:boogie

There are a couple others that I know of that have had the same problems with it!!:upthumbs
 
Yeah, There's book smart and there's Junk smart, I'll take the Junk smart. And maybe I missed it, but what about hardened valve seats? I had a 1970 Coupe that had to have leaded gas or it would ping terribly with any octane rating fuel. Come on, these are Hi-Performance engines, why wouldn't you have the valve seats done. And by the way, The motor in the 70 coupe was out of a police/taxi vehicle, a 400 small block (non-original) that would leave a Porsche 944 in the dust without taking it out of 4th gear. Before I bought the car I informed the owner that the numbers did not match, he said "Take it for a ride, you won't care about numbers matching", he was correct.......................
 
As for the 327/300 and octane...If you live where it's below 3000 ft and you drive the car even halfway hard, use the highest octane pump gas you can find. The problem with the 300 horse engine is that, yes it has only 10.5:1 CR but it also has a camshaft with short duration. The mild cam causes high cylinder pressure and that tends to make the engine more prone to detonation. Gerally, with cast iron heads 9.5 or 9.75:1 is about as high as you can go and still stay out of detonation, if the spark curve is optimal. With 10.5 and a short-duration cam you may even have to use a combination of 91/93-oct gas and slight spark retard to keep the engine out of detonation.

The early-closing intake valve on the base "929" camshaft does increase cylinder pressure relative to the later-closing intakes on the L-79 "151" and L-76/84 "30-30" cam, making the 327/300 more prone to detonation. I have my 327/300 set up with 6*-8* initial and 24* centrifugal, all in by 3000-3200 (for 30*-32* total), with the vacuum advance fully-deployed at idle, and I have no trace of detonation under any conditions with 93-octane pump premium.

My '69 Z/28 (stock, with the "30-30" cam and 11:1 compression with domed pistons) is set up a little tighter, with 10* initial and 25* in the distributor, in by 2800 (for 35* total), also with the vacuum advance fully-deployed at idle, and I have not a hint of detonation under any conditions with 93-octane pump premium in that car either.

You shouldn't have any problem running pump premium if your timing and advance is set up similarly; I've set up several 300hp, 350hp, and 365hp Corvettes the same way and they don't detonate either.

I don't worry about valve seat recession - I don't pull trailers uphill at 100mph all day or road-race either car; by the time any seat recession occurs, I will have been ashes in an urn for a LONG time. :)

:beer
 

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