Which C3 is the best for a newbee vette owner

[ReggieD]

I am asking this question in different forums to gain more knowledge about C3 pros and cons. I am 40 year of age and I have a very good backgound in electrical work on cars. I love installing gadgets in cars. My budget is $10,000 or less. I love the look of the C3 model. I like the grounds effect kit I saw on the 1981/82 model. I am a little better than normal with car repairs. I want a C3 vette so this is why I am doing research on what is the best year vehicle of this model. I want the year between 74 to 82 that has the least amount of designed in problems. (example: the cross-fire injection is not one of the better engines for upgrades) I want to be able to find parts, fix problems, modify for more speed, simple tune-up, and minimal computer control stuff. . Once I make a decision then I will home in on looking for that particular year to purchase. Please reply with your pros and cons for the right C3 for a soon to be newbee vette owner. I love these cars.

 

[78SilvAnniv]

Best C3 for a newbie...

...is the best maintained vette you can afford to purchase!

Welcome to Corvette Action Center, Reggie!

Try to find one whose maintenance and upkeep was paramount for their owner. This should be easily accomplished within your budget.

Since you like the body style of the latest C3s, but don't care for the crossfire, try looking at 1980 and 1981 vettes. We have a very large following of L81 vette owners (L81 engine was only available for 1981) and if you check out the L81 Registry here at CAC you will be able to gain a lot of info about this year of vettes.
Heidi

 

[SwaveDave]

If $10 k. is your budget, then, you should be able to find a fairly nice 1974 to 1982. The 350 chevy engine is wonderful for performance increases thru mods and durable too. From what ive seen and heard...the next group of vettes that will be in demand will be 1974 on up ... meaning 'non chrome bumper' vettes. Mid '70 vettes are known for being great Cruisers but fail miserably at being performance cars. But if your willing to go the mod route, you can make your purchase better in the performance realm. Frankly, i havent heard of specific problematic years taking into account 1974 to 1980 other than the standard things to look for when buying a vette : Frame rusting especially in front of the rear wheels, windshield header and pillar rusting, fenders that have been hit , etc... When you find a nice vette in your price range, pay a good mechanic to check it over well and preferably one who is familiar with the year you are buying.

Email me if youd like a checklist of things to checkout yourself, when looking at Vettes. I have a very thorough checklist pertaining to C3's in general.

Good luck and welcome to the realm of great cars ! Youll have fun while it appreciates in value.

Dave

 

[78SilvAnniv]

An Invitation...

Reggie,
A bunch of us CAC members will be meeting at The Varsity in Atlanta at 1pm THIS SUNDAY, 06/22/03.
61 North Ave. NW
Atlanta, GA 30308
404-881-1706
A local Corvette club is hosting a Corvette show at The Varsity that day from 9am to 3pm.

Kenny and I will be meeting at least one member in Conyers at noon to caravan to Atlanta, and you are welcome to join us. Please bring a vehicle that can keep up with 70mph on the fwy. This would be a good opportunity for you to meet some of the members and also see a lot of Corvettes.

Please let me know if you are interested and would like to caravan with us.
Heidi

 

[Grizzly]

Which C3

In a world of washboard abs those of us in a little larger size can have a problem with 79-96 Corvettes. When they went to the sport seat introduced on the 78 Pace car the place for your backside got considerably smaller. Compare two 78's, a regular one with the flat seats and the sport seats in the pace car an you will see what I mean. I can not sit in a 78 Pace car comfortably.

The good news is that at least here in SW Pa, there are some fine bargains out there in 75-78 cars. Right in your price range. Car and Driver web site has a whole series of road tests on line. It's a good place to look. One thing that popped up for me was that they went to radial tires in '73 I think. They also show you how much you lose going down from a 454 to the base engine. Not as much as you would think in those early days of smog control.

I'm looking for one now my self as a daily driver with auto and air. Good hunting.......

 

[ironmoo]

If you are to rebuild the car into your vision of a Vette and stay within the 80-82, a non-computer (non-Calif) '80 may be the best bet. For restoring to stock (potential for value growth), a nice '82. (And please don't be afraid of the cross-fire! There is much you can do for it now! )

Be also aware that while the 80-82's look great with the intergrated airdams and spoilers, the front airdam always seems to be bent in the middle as everything in your path gets sucked up into it. (Leaves, rocks, cats, birds and once an armadillo meet my airdam I'm sad to say.)

No matter what year you end up going for. I would suggest finding a car that has not been first "upgraded" by Joe-bob mechanic. You may have to undo what mess they did first then decide what upgrades you want!

An owner that has receipts as proof of upkeep/repairs is worth gold as the history of the car becomes unveiled before you.

Good luck!

 

[AKRAY4PLAY]

your wish list is pointing right at a '74. the only thing you would be missing is the spoilers. '74 has no emmissions to worry about and lend themselves very well to mods without the troubles of smog nazis. the frames and suspensions are basically the same. the '80-'82 had aluminum rear diffs, but not much different. '74 was, i believe, the last year of the big blocks. big blocks have a higher resale value, but are heavier and don't lend themselves to racing as well as the small blocks. more creature comforts are availible in later Vettes, but the mod road is broad and veried. local smog rules will dictate your performance upgrades, unless the car is smog exempt, Brian

 

[SwaveDave]

Akray,

Big blocks ,although heavier...lend themselves very well to racing . The additional power that can be had from a BB vs a SB , more than compensates for the added weight. Plus, with aluminum heads , you can shave quite a bit of weight. You cant rev a BB as a high as a SB...but for someone who wants a first Corvette (for the street)...i dont think hes going to be making power shifts at 6 k in his neighborhood.

Dave

 

[MaineShark]

ReggieD: From your post, it sounds like you'd be happiest with an '81. You'll have a small computer that works the distributor, but other than that it would be as simple as an earlier model.

Joe

 

[AKRAY4PLAY]

Dave,
no disrespect intended, but it takes a lot of hp to make up for an extra couple hundred pounds of car. big blocks can be raced easilly, i just think lighter weight is more important than brute fore in racing. a small block with aluminum heads will always corner better than a big block with aluminum, just a matter of physics. and small blocks can push some serious power numbers. i have a 406 sb that is making 606hp and 588ft/lbs in my '77. don't get me wrong, i love big blocks and all their off idle torque. they are great for the fun factor and awesome for resale value. a small block might be a better choice for a first car just because they are easier to find and a lot cheaper leaving more cash for fix up items. Brian

 

[SwaveDave]

Brian,

No offense taken. Im sure for his first vette , he isnt going to want it for racing anyway. Up here in Northern illinois, i see many more BB's at the Drags than SB's--especially 468's and 540's ; While your 406 is a screamer , im sure...you can also build up BB's for outrageous H.P/TQ too. By the way, are u using nitrous to get to those numbers ?? Just curious. Thanks, Dave

 

[AKRAY4PLAY]

Dave,
all my numbers are normal asperation and on 90 octane pump gas. fogging a motor is cheating in my humble opinion. i have run 88 octane once to see if would detonate, and fortunately it did not. my goal was the highest performance available and still be streetable. the cam profile and stall converter combo work well together. the stall is a 2400 rpm and the cam starts coming good at 3200. this was done on purpose to soften the low end hit in an effort to save the rear end. i was amazed how well it hooks up. it rolls into the power very smoothly and runs the line of boiling the tires all the way to redline in each gear. if i rev past 6000 before shifting into 3rd gear, she lights the tires at 95mph. i almost lost it once from that mistake, made my heart stop and my buddy had to clean his shorts i'm sure. if you want, send me an email and i will gladly give you the specifics of my build. just curious to what exactly you are running as well, Brian

 

[SwaveDave]

Brian,

Id be very interested in reading of the internals you used in your buildup. That is some nice power from a SB. How streetable is it...do u take it on cruise nites at all ? SInce i think the Forum could benefit from how you built your motor, why dont you start a new Post and call it : 406 Buildup.

I considered going much higher in h.p/tq on my motor buildup last summer, but it is a street machine and i didnt want to get too radical. Next time i need a motor rebuild though, i might look at stroking to 496 and running a solid cam.


Thanks, Dave

 

[basilio]

1974

The 1974 is the way to go especially with the 454! Imagine the big block. No computer. The last one with real dual exhaust. No catalytic converter. You can use real gas even if you feel like it. You get 270 HP (net) and 380 ft-lb torque--this is the highest output from a regular production Corvette until the zr-1 of 1990! If you look hard you may come across one with a Gymkhana suspension--first year of this option. Or a convertible (second to last year). As opposed to some detractors, I do not think that a car that can do 0-60 in 6.4, 1/4 mi. in 14.6 sec, top speed 132 MPH is failing miserably as a performance car. No wonder Hemmings picked the 1974 454 as a top 10 collectable!

 

[AKRAY4PLAY]

you got it Dave! i will post everything on the C3's Mods section, Brian

 

[SwaveDave]

Basillio,

Errrrr,,, the 1970 LS5 motor put out 390 h.p and 500 ft lbs of torque in stock trim and was the most powerful "advertised" motor ; not the 1974 454 . In fact,by 1974, the 454 had become so detuned and compression ratio bastardized by GM (8.5 cr ??) , that, a 1968-1970 sb could match its performance. Its still a collectible because it was the last of the BB's....but enforced emmisions ruined its thunder of previous years.

Dave

 

[MoeJr]

Dave you must remember that a 1970 LS5 454 was rated 390 Gross HP comapred to the 74's 270 Net HP. Rte the 70 at net and it is down around 310 HP thats only 40 more HP than a 74 and I can extract that 40 out of the 74 with some good old fashioned 1970 power tuning. Also mid 70's Vettes even with the base L48 respond well to simple tuning tricks. They are not the dogs you make em out to be. I been around Vettes and performance cars since I was a 2 year old. My Dad has been wrenching for almost 40 years and loves doing engine rebuilds the most and can make some awesome power. Back in 1978 my dad did a performance rebuild on a guys 65 Vette 327. With a smooth idle roller cam and full roller valve train,13.5:1 CR(Still could get the good stuff back then) single 4bbl and .030 over bore he got 650 HP out of it and it ran on stock tires 130 mph in the 1/4. Car accelerated so hard the passenger could not pull themselves out of the seat. My dad ran it thru the gears and the 2-3 shift was done at 120. That is an extreme motor but I wanted to use it as an example so you don't think I am some shmuck that does not know what he is talking about. Just my .02 and no power adders were used on this 327 either.

For this gentleman who is lokking for his first Vette my vote goes for the 80-82. And don't let Cross Fire scare you. My 84 has Cross Fire and runs like a scalded dog.

 

[basilio]

1974

Hey Swavedave!

ERRRRR! Please CAREFULLY read my previous post and place it in the PROPER context here. The topic here is 1974 to 1982 Corvettes (read the initial question being asked) and my reply refers 74 and onwards! The 454 from 1974 is the most powerful production engine from 74 onwards until the ZR-1 of 1990! I did not say that the '74 big block is more powerful than the previous years. However, an interesting point was raised. The LS5 rating is in gross HP when converted to net we can compare apples to apples. The difference then between the LS5 and LS4 is not that great (30 to 40HP). Additionally lets not forget that in 1974 Chevrolet purposefully "DOWNRATED" the HP rating to save customers from the insurance companies. The true test of all this are the acceleration and top speed rating and there is not much difference here. Furthermore, let us not forget that the LS6 was "advertised" and the rating is much higher than either. According to road tests, a big block from '74 is still quicker than a "regular" SB from 68-70. For your information, the emission chokehold began in 1968. Then in 1970, the 454 was designed with emissions in mind and sadly a more powerful engine-- the "dirty" 430 did not make it into production. I agree things gradually did get worse but the death of performance as we know it came in 1975 with the catalytic converter cars.

 

[SwaveDave]

Bassillio,

I agree with 1974 and onward. Sorry, my mistake.

Moe,

If mid 70's L48 stock vettes "werent dogs on performance" , there wouldnt be so many people asking how they can get more power out of them (and expressing thier disappointment) in ALL of the Vette Forums. They are still great cars , but the Feds whittled them down to highway cruisers.

You only compared 'h.p.' figures between a 1970 and a 1974 454 ; compare the torque also and post those figures for comparison. Thanks.

I wonder what your dad could have gotton out of a 1965 396 BB Vette motor which was rated at 425 h.p from the factory ???

Dave

 

[MoeJr]

Dave I agree that the mid 70's Vettes were not the performers of earlier models however the performance was there it just needs to be extracted. The rule of thumb is usually a 20% drivetrain loss going from gross hp to net hp. Using that factor the LS5 was rated at 500 lb ft torque gross and approx 400 net tq. 1974 LS4 I believe was rated at 390 net lb ft tq. Also remember Chevy never changed the basic cams of the SB right thru 1980. The base L48 Cam was the 350/300HP cam and the L82 Cam was the 350/350 hp cam. Just my .02