Question: Which Engine?

[woodpuppy]

The engine in my daily driver 86 Coupe just went kaput:cry.

I live in the Dallas area and we have emission testing.

It has an AT.

I'm not a purist (but I will keep the dead engine in case I ever get rid of the Vette and the buyer is a purist) so I don't necessarily want or need to put an OE engine back in it.

So that leaves me with "X" number of options. I would prefer to put a turnkey engine (350 or larger) in the Vette that would require no or minimal "customization" in order to get it to work.

True plug and play options are fine, I just don't want to re-engineer the engine bay or systems.:W

My naive thinking is the engine would be delivered on Friday morning and I would be driving the Vette to work on Monday.

So I am asking for input, stories, advice, etc... from those who have done engine swaps in a C4.

I'm already aware that the cost of the new engine is about equal to the current value of the Vette. That is an issue onto itself.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[blackxpress]

Why not just build the one that's in it?

 

[compyelc4]

Rebuild. My sentiments exactly.

 

[woodpuppy]

My minimal research and the input I've received so far indicates that if you do the job properly you have as much $ if not more $ in a rebuild than you would have in a new crate engine. Then there is the down time, it's my daily driver. But with that said, it is an option depending on the economics.

 

[6 Shooter]

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Article

 

[So Bay Vetter]

With a little research you should be able to find a mathching short block from any number of performance outfits. Have the heads re-done and you should be back in business. But I think the weekend turn-around is a fantasy. Even with all the parts ready to go, a good shop will take at least 2 weeks. If you read thru some of the re-build posts, you'll find that anyone who tried to go with a "cheap" shop ended up regretting it. Go with a reputable Vette shop (NOT a dealership!) It will end up cheaper in the long run.

 

[Vettefan87]

I agree with the above posts of rebuilding your TPI. Definitely take some time. I think Lingenfelter has some books dealing with rebuilding our TPI's. And from speaking from experience with rebuilds (mine and my brothers) do not go the cheap way with either parts OR the garage or person doing the work. Shop around talk to many people etc etc. It is worth waiting a while till you feel comfortable with somebody performing heart surgery to your vette.

 

[86-ZZ3]

How about a ZZ4? I have an '86 too and had the original motor develop a block crack for whatever reason do rebuilding was a bit out of the question (but could have been done). The ZZ3 crate motor has worked pretty good (even when stored for 10 years). As driveable as the L98 even after the addition of an Edelbrock intake (had SLP headers before that). Has the stock FI system otherwise. I think the old water pump and harmonic balancer had to be reused as did the stock distributor (moved the gear from the ZZ3 distributor over).

Passes smog where I am (west coast Canada) with apparently-minimal emissions. http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com...rmance/103583-typical-smog-test-readings.html

 

[aboatguy]

With an assembled shortblock
Removing and installing the engine in a two day weekend is relatively simple if you have access to an engine hoist and a TPIS happy hooker.

I've done it a couple of times. I need a second person for about 10-20 minutes during the engine removal IOT pump the jack on the lift while I guide the engine

....and about the same amount of time during the install to lower the engine while I guide it in.


As for rebuilding your engine or buying a short/longblock I had my shortblock rebuilt by Brian Ebert using specs from Phil at AI

I decided to have my engine rebuilt so that it could be built to my specifications and AI didn't have engine packages back then

However, I would have no problem with an engine from AI, Ellwien, Lingenfelter but I would not use an engine from one of the mass rebuilders. But my engine is not stock and I need it to hold together reliably and still spin up to 7K wnen the need for speed hits me.


However, if I had emissions and did not have the need for speed I'd have no trouble with a budget shortblock installation with stock components on the top end
Good luck on your engine quest.

Happy Hooker in action

 

[woodpuppy]

Well it looks like I'm going with a rebuild. So that opens a whole new question as to hDo I change the ignition system? Go crazy and build a 383 stroker or just do?????? Reflash the prom or stay stock? Can you tell I have no clue what I'm doing, but I am excited and I am reading like crazy on rebuilding engines.

Please chime in folks with advice, do's and dont's, recommendations, etc... or simply to offer your condolences.

The fun begins Friday after work.

 

[Cruzen]

If time is a factor, as it seems to be, go with a crate motor from GM. The 330 hp or ZZ4 are both good choices and will outperform your current motor by a bunch and still get you through emissions easier than your current motor. I live in Arizona which has one of the toughest Emissions test requiremtns and both of these motors make it through.

If you go with a rebuild here’s what will happen.
Someone tells you about a great rebuild/machine shop their brother in law, brother, parole officer, biker friend or other relation used.
You visit the shop and they agree to rebuild your engine. You slip on the greasy floor as you leave.
It takes you four days and five beer guzzling buddies to get the engine out because the hoist you use breaks down and the beer runs out and the guy with the pickup who is going to take the old engine to the shop doesn’t show up for a few days.
The shop tells you the rebuild will take two weeks. Six weeks later the cigar chomping owner tells you he’s a bit behind but your engine is next. Actually he used parts from you motor to rebuild his brother in laws boat motor.
After 2 months the motor is delivered but the flywheel is missing.
You call your beer guzzling buddies and they are busy for a few days.
You start to install the engine yourself. The hydraulic cylinder on the lift fails and you drop the motor on the front of the car. You start looking for a body shop…. That’s another story.
Your buddies finally show up and after numerous six packs you get the motor in but realize you got two different engine mounts so it will sit till the right mounts are delivered. Three days later it’s kind of running. You leave it running at 2000 in the garage for an hour to break in the new cam and the motor overheats.
You drive the car for four weeks and the motor starts to leak oil and other yet to be determined substances. There is also a slight metallic knock coming from the bottom end.
You call the rebuild shop and they refuse to warranty the engine because you used the wrong break in procedure, the wrong oil or you live on the wrong side of the tracks or some such. They tell you it was leaking when you brought it in so what can you expect from them.
Finally coming home from work one day the motor seizes and you have it towed home.
The cars sits in the garage for three years. Your wife tells you to sell it.
You sell it on Craig’s list and some guy gets it for $3000. He drags it home, calls GM orders a crate motor and in a week is driving his nice newly motored Vette telling everyone about the deal he got. You end up driving the family Prius or a used Honda.

Now go buy that crate motor, have it sitting nearby so when you take the old motor out you drop the new, guaranteed, motor in and be back on the road in a timely manner before your beer guzzling buddies recover from the experience.
If you don’t believe this can happen to you I have plenty of references you can talk to.

END OF STORY!!

Denny

 

[JAKE]

You're luckier than you know. When I decided to re-build the engine in my 86 several years back, I pulled disassembled it, then cleaned off all the oil, etc., and took it to Reher & Morrison (of Pro Stock fame) in Arlington. Their facilities are top shelf and their reputation is tops also. You'll be truly impressed in your walk through their facility. They're really friendly and will show you all through their huge facility. If you're really lucky, as I was, you can even catch one of their Pro Stock Big Blocks at work on the dyno. AWESOME!!!

The second choice, and another top shop in Duncanville is Dennis Wells Racing. He's renoun in the area for top running dirt track small blocks and has been featured in a few auto mags for his cutting edge work. Things like realizing that pumping hot coolant through a block as it's being machined keeps the tolerances SO MUCH tighter.

All the block work at R&H ran right at $1,000. That was a complete machine job including cleaning, line honing, decking, boring & honing, chasing threads, etc., etc.

Wells did the heads; cleaning, surfacing, new valves, guides, springs/retainers/locks, screw-in studs, etc. for around $350/$400 (can't recall specifically). He's got both chassis and engine dynos and flows heads, too; along with all the other machining equipment.

I'd either go with a rebuild and come out 355 CID or hit the wrecking yards for a 400 block/crank and come out with a 415 CID. Price difference would be the cost of the 400 block/crank. Wells may have a set for sale, so you could check with Dennis.

Jake

 

[dregsz]

When you said the old engine went Kaput you ment there is an issue w the??????

If you know what the issue is you can deal w it, it may be cheap.

All these guys that think they need a top shelf motor are snobs.
you can go w a 383 kit for under $1000 for the rot assemb, get a valve job, change gaskets, swap parts over....

Just looking to get a daily driver w a little more pep? another hundred HP? better heads/cam on your old freshened short block.

THere are so many ways you can go with this, my suggestion is to slow down, figure out what you need, if you go into it half baked you will be chasing down parts for 3 weeks that you could have spent a few extra days planning the project and had it go much smoother and save a bunch of money. Want to save time and blow cash?
get a ZZ430, or 425 hp basic stroker crate motor, swap your parts over and go.
Good easy ways to do it.

Call dynoflo in vegas. see if they have one ready to ship.

Good luck

 

[woodpuppy]

Merry Christmas (but to who?)

The car left on a trailer today. I donated it to charity.

I was ready to install a new motor or rebuild the original (depending on my mood and day of the week), but the wife said she would rather I get rid of it and buy another one that didn't need as much work.

So after much arm twisting otfl I agreed.

So the hunt is afoot.