White Spark

[Marv02]

Is white Spark comming out of the Spark plugs enough to fire up the motor Or do I have have Blue Spark.

I tryed to Adjust the air gap on the plugs but no change.

I should I gett a hotter set of plugs.

 

[boomdriver]

its not the plugs. Its where the spark comes from. Weak ignition module, coil or damaged wiring in the cap. The work is done in the cap. the spark at the plugs is the result. Wires, plugs are just transmission lines. Spark originates in the ignition module. If its weak, its weak in the caps electronics. Easy to change modules and coils.

don;t risk hotter plugs on a fresh start up. Just go with the stock. The coils and module are what makes the spark and how hot it is.

Rule of thumb...

hot plugs mean cold exhaust.
cold plugs mean hotter exhaust. Plugs too hot will attack the piston dome and eat a hole in it in a matter of minutes. Be careful with that.

Go back and check the ign module and ESC module and knock sensor to be sure those are all in good shape. The ign module can be tested at many parts stores. so can the main coil. Those are the two most important.

 

[Marv02]

I have 40 Lb's of fuel pressure and when I put a light on the Injector conector wires there not lighting up so I getting fuel pressure but witrh the volt meter it showing pluse but with a test light It not lighting up.
I checked the Injector Fuses they are good.
I have oil pressure showing at the dash gauges.
I was told it don't mean the ECM is seeing the oil pressure.
How do I check if the ECM is reading I have oil pressure.

 

[boomdriver]

I have 40 Lb's of fuel pressure and when I put a light on the Injector conector wires there not lighting up so I getting fuel pressure but witrh the volt meter it showing pluse but with a test light It not lighting up.
I checked the Injector Fuses they are good.
I have oil pressure showing at the dash gauges.
I was told it don't mean the ECM is seeing the oil pressure.
How do I check if the ECM is reading I have oil pressure.

The ECM is not directly in charge of the oil pressure. There are people that say that the ECM programming included extra cranking time to build pressure in cold start conditions. When stone cold, I can have 45psi fuel pressure and mine will not lite off until it turns over for 1-2 seconds. After that, I hit that key and its instant start up. As long as its been run or warmed it fires instantly. They say thats to circulate oil in a cold motor. But the ECM does not manage oil pressure or a response.
The relationship is with the low oil pressure switch (about 4 lbs) and the fuel pump relay.
No oil pressure, no power to the fuel pump. That simple.

The injectors operate on ground control as a group, per bank. It takes a "noid" lite to actually watch the injector pulses as they fire. Thats a cheap little diagnostic tool that shows you each pulse with a flash. If that flash happens, the injector is getting a signal.
You said before that the spark plugs are wet with gas...so the injectors are working. The plugs can be dripping with gas and still fire, IF the distributer is putting out the voltage. The HEI system produces up to 40,000 volts. Thats where the Blue spark comes from.
VERY VERY hi-voltage.

I'm sticking with the poor spark theory.

 

[Marv02]

I put a turning signal light bulb on the injector plug it lights up but it's dim but I gettting power to the injector.

 

[Marv02]

I getting great pressure 40 pounds I put a light on the injectors it's lights up but very dim.

I tryed to set it up 180 out nothing no poping at all.

So I put back the way it was.

But when I had it 180 out I could see raw fuel spitting out of the front of the intake.

 

[vetteboy86]

I put a turning signal light bulb on the injector plug it lights up but it's dim but I gettting power to the injector.

You put a test light on the injector signal wire? Based on the Pulse width and Duty cycle of the injector at that point in time, the light may be very dim.

 

[93Rubie]

You really need what is called a noid light to properly test PCM signal to injectors. BEST method that I know of.

 

[Marv02]

Still willn't start I have 40lb's of fuel pessure.
Have pulse at injectors Plugs are firing they are getting Black so its getting fuel.
I have white spark but is this enough for it to run I ben told it need to be Blue.
Do you think it could be a bad or going bad Ignition control Mod.
I move the distrbetor every way 1 and 2 teeth.
I not 180 Out.
I can feel the pipe are warm I can hear wanting to start once in a while you can hear it cacth trying to run.
I put the motor on TDC both Vavles are closed when putting the motror on TDC it is on compression.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

It's flooded. Get a new set of plugs.

 

[Marv02]

I going down to harbor freight this morning and pick up a bag of blast media for my spark plug cleaner.

This is much cheeper just to bast them clean untill I get this running then I get a new set of plugs.

This way If I keep on fouling them I just can re bast them untill I find out what wrong.

For those who going to run out and get a Plug cleaner make sure you get all the media off the plugs before reinstaling them back in to the car.

It's flooded. Get a new set of plugs.

 

[Marv02]

I am getting intermediate pulse at the Injector connections.
Is the ECM Fried ????.

Sometimes the plug are wet others they are dry.

I don’t get it. What am I doing wrong.

 

[Marv02]

I put the motor on TDC once again pulled the valve cover off to make sure evrything was ok checked the push rods I found the push rods on the intake side were bent again.

Here a couple picture of push rod probems.

The intake has the long though holes going though the head the exhaust have the very short though hole though the heads.
Is this where the push rods are getting bent at ??.
Next step is pulling one of the heads to see if there any damage under there.

 

[boomdriver]

There almost has to be some sort of contact in the heads if the rockers are free to their full travel and the springs are not binding or bottoming out too early.

Is it possible that the cam with the 1.6 rocker is TOO much for the heads? deck height?

Is the springs compressed length too short for the cam lift with the 1.6 rocker? If the springs compressed length is less than that, the difference will be taken out in the weakest part, the pushrods. It may be as little as a couple thousanths since metal does not compress, it will distort. Once the lifter is bottomed out and the plunger cannot absorb anymore, the stress goes directly to the hard parts. Lifters are like shocks in this way.

Is it possible that the cam is not for a roller motor? or one of the other valve-train parts? That matters a bunch.

Its not a valve hitting a piston...I don;t think, unless the cam was opening the intake wayyyyy too early before the piston was beyond TDC exhaust stroke. The intake should begin to open just as the crank pulls the piston down, depending on the cam profile.

If these pushrods are still bending, only on intake, whats the common denominator? the 1.6 rocker? and the head deck height and the cam.

 

[Marv02]

I using 1.5 rockers arms.

I pulling the heads and going to bore out the push rods holes.

Also going to clay the piston and valves see what I have.

Ya I know I shopuld of clayed the valve before I build the motor but it not a high lift cam with flat top pistons so I would think everything should of cleared.

There almost has to be some sort of contact in the heads if the rockers are free to their full travel and the springs are not binding or bottoming out too early.

Is it possible that the cam with the 1.6 rocker is TOO much for the heads? deck height?

Is the springs compressed length too short for the cam lift with the 1.6 rocker? If the springs compressed length is less than that, the difference will be taken out in the weakest part, the pushrods. It may be as little as a couple thousanths since metal does not compress, it will distort. Once the lifter is bottomed out and the plunger cannot absorb anymore, the stress goes directly to the hard parts. Lifters are like shocks in this way.

Is it possible that the cam is not for a roller motor? or one of the other valve-train parts? That matters a bunch.

Its not a valve hitting a piston...I don;t think, unless the cam was opening the intake wayyyyy too early before the piston was beyond TDC exhaust stroke. The intake should begin to open just as the crank pulls the piston down, depending on the cam profile.

If these pushrods are still bending, only on intake, whats the common denominator? the 1.6 rocker? and the head deck height and the cam.

 

[boomdriver]

I using 1.5 rockers arms.

I pulling the heads and going to bore out the push rods holes.

Also going to clay the piston and valves see what I have.

Ya I know I shopuld of clayed the valve before I build the motor but it not a high lift cam with flat top pistons so I would think everything should of cleared.

yeah, I would think so, but sometimes aftermarket stuff is hard to match and their data is usually based on building with all their parts.

Its hard to imagine the valve nailing the piston since the only time that intake and the piston are close to each other is intake stroke as the pistons headed down....valve sorta follows the piston down.

Those rods dont look horribly bent, enough to have a wobble if laid flat and rolled obviously, so that tells that the bottoming is not by too much...got to be springs hitting their compressed length just before the rocker is finished. Once a coil has compressed 100% its like a steel collar. If the rods are still pushing that last bit of lift, or the ratio is almost complete,,the rod gets bent.

Yep, look inside for some evidence,. Clay it and see what that tells. It may eliminate the piston/valve right there. Next stop would be in the valve train,,springs retainers...rockers.

Man, this sure turned into a lots bigger project did'nt it?

don;t worry, there is a solution for every problem. all ya gotta do is find yours. Its out there waiting to find you.

Good Luck

 

[Marv02]

This how my problems normaly go not the normal ones mine are odd ball ones and when you tell everyone whats going on they think you dont know what you'r doing or your nuts.

The push rods are not bent bad but they arew still bent.

I remove the head here in a couple days when I find the time then clay the motor see what I come up with.

I just don't want to pull the pistons out to have the valve pockets made larger.

That not gong to be fun.

 

[vetteoz]

But the ECM does not manage oil pressure or a response. .

FWIW
the ECM has to see oil pressure while cranking ( from the OP switch closing to run the pump ) along with the ref signal from dist before it will pulse the injectors

Ref to "ECM Reaction"
C4 L98 Engine Start Sequence - www.c4vettes.com

Notice the Fuel Pump signal input at terminal B2 on the '165 ECM?

 

[boomdriver]

FWIW
the ECM has to see oil pressure while cranking ( from the OP switch closing to run the pump ) along with the ref signal from dist before it will pulse the injectors

Ref to "ECM Reaction"
C4 L98 Engine Start Sequence - www.c4vettes.com

Notice the Fuel Pump signal input at terminal B2 on the '165 ECM?

Right...
I stated that as I did because the signal from the OP switch is just an off/on that the ECM reads as 1 of a couple conditions met for normal run. The ECM does not see or care about the actual "pressure"...just the fact that the switch is closed.

The low pressure switch is also known as a "back-up" switch as in back-up for the fuel relay in case it fails, the low press switch will complete the path and supply power for the fuel pump.

 

[Marv02]

It alive.
Besides a bad fuel line It Lives.