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Why the Corvette will be successful and why you don't like it.

Evolution1980

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I had originally posted this as a response to someone in the "2014 C7 Beautiful Poll" thread, but thought that it was enough of it's own idea to spur conversation separate from the poll. Thus, here it is...
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Here in the US the current Corvette buyers are 40s plus. And giving the economy lately the younger generation is not going to be the new buyers they may want. OBAMA Motors can't figure out we didn't want an European car.
And therein lies what I believe is the problem. You stated it and probably didn't realize it. Many others have given your same sentiments and this applies to them as well! There are so many points that come to mind in those three simple sentences, I will try to get most of them out here in as coherent a message as I can.

Too many of us are isolated in our thinking, as if it's the early 1920's and we don't have international trade and international interest in our product. We are only concerned about what we want. But GM is a global company. And for a global company and their product to succeed, they need to think globally and not just focus on the 45-65 year old American male. In the US alone, how big is that demographic? Is it large enough to sustain a brand? "Barely" and I believe that's being generous. GM needs to expand the pool of people that will take interest in the car. Part of that shift means making the car appealing to a broader range of people.

Many people talk of "Buying American" or wondering how come our exports don't do well overseas. Maybe it's because we don't often produce anything that they really want or "just have to have!". Well, if you include others globally in your thinking, there's a much better chance you're going to appeal to more folks. And that's a big part of this new C7 design. We Americans are proof that people will buy cars from other countries. Plenty of us have imports. And speaking of that...

If someone states that we don't want a European car, I have to ask, "Really? Even if you could afford one?" Rarely do I hear anyone stating that they wouldn't want a Ferrari or Aston-Martin or Maserati in their garage. Nor do I hear people talk about how ugly many of those cars appear to be. Generally speaking, people gush over those brands. And yet, as soon as our designers in the USA start working with design & styling cues from those brands, we seem to jump on the "Ugly" or "Piece of Sh**" bandwagon. Why is that? It's like stating that we want our own original designs & styling concepts, but then sh** all over anything we come up with. Regardless of where the ideas come from, they are still our ideas. Globally, designers & stylists from all brands take cues from everyone else. All those people currently designing cars got their ideas from cars they saw growing up- maybe other designers concepts that were ahead of the time at the time. But now the future is here and these designers are taking those concepts and implementing them into their own designs. Look at the history of automotive design globally in the past 100 years. If trends weren't a global idea, there'd still be plenty of supercars riding around on 14" wheels. But they don't. Now everyone is riding around on 18"-20" wheels. Is it strictly functional or strictly design & style that led everyone to this point? Probably a little of both. But none of this occurred in just one geographic location with one specific brand. It happened globally because that's how car designers & stylists think.

Technology & fashion are global concepts. GM appears to be showing that they understand this. In my opinion, they've done an excellent job advancing the engineering, design, and style of the Corvette and in doing so, make it appeal to a much broader group of potential buyers. Granted, there's always going to be brand snobbery, both domestic and foreign. Many people in Italy wouldn't dare own a Corvette because it's not a Ferrari or people in Germany because it's not a Porsche. But I give propers to the Corvette engineers, designers, and stylists that are definitely making it harder for the snobs to ignore the fact that we've got a bangin' car that can no longer be easily dismissed as a cheap, unrefined, and uninspired American product.

The Corvette has conquered America. Our sites are now set on YOU Italy, Germany, and Japan!!! We're cominagetcha!!!
 
Agreed. This is a far more cosmopolitan Corvette than previous generations, following a trend of making the Corvette less of a local phenomenon to a world beater.

When I wrote up the poll that is attached to the a/n thread, I tried to make it as balanced as possible. I had the notion of starting with a baseline of zero (ie: no opinion) and went up and down from that. So "I love it" is +3 and "I hate it" is -3, so to speak. With that in mind, look at the poll and you'll see the majority of those who participated approve of the new design... and that is a mostly North American audience. I believe the international automotive journalists might have a hard time turning up their noses now!

-Mac

 
Yes. I agree with the above statement about gm needing to be a global company. The corvette should attract foreign markets, but if you think this design is the answer, making it a Ferrari, Maserati, or exotic looking, then Europeans must be laughing at this point.

American Cars have traditionally been viewed by European markets as gaudy, overdone and poor handling cars. Lets not even talk about American sports cars in the past. There have been exceptions, I think such as the original Sting Ray when Duntov was around and commented how he felt proud to have the c2 finally be a world class car. The current Cadillac cts I think was the other exception. The cts and ats are world class cars because besides being technically up to the challenge they have a clean design without being overdone and original in design and that is what attracts foreign buyers, not gaudy scoops, overdone lines and over the top features.

i can appreciate the design direction that the c7 was taken by gm. In some respects some aspects of the car are very appealing, such as the front end and even side profiles. I'm sorry but that rear end looks hideous. And it doesn't even matter about the camaroesque taillights. It's butt ugly. Some of the other lines on the car doesn't flow well either. Blacked out A pillars and body colored roof extensions with a carbon fiber black roof? This car could have been much more by simplifying some design cues. Again, I haven't seen the car in person, but I doubt it will make a difference.
 
point taken

I had originally posted this as a response to someone in the "2014 C7 Beautiful Poll" thread, but thought that it was enough of it's own idea to spur conversation separate from the poll. Thus, here it is...
--------------
--------------
And therein lies what I believe is the problem. You stated it and probably didn't realize it. Many others have given your same sentiments and this applies to them as well! There are so many points that come to mind in those three simple sentences, I will try to get most of them out here in as coherent a message as I can.

Too many of us are isolated in our thinking, as if it's the early 1920's and we don't have international trade and international interest in our product. We are only concerned about what we want. But GM is a global company. And for a global company and their product to succeed, they need to think globally and not just focus on the 45-65 year old American male. In the US alone, how big is that demographic? Is it large enough to sustain a brand? "Barely" and I believe that's being generous. GM needs to expand the pool of people that will take interest in the car. Part of that shift means making the car appealing to a broader range of people.

Many people talk of "Buying American" or wondering how come our exports don't do well overseas. Maybe it's because we don't often produce anything that they really want or "just have to have!". Well, if you include others globally in your thinking, there's a much better chance you're going to appeal to more folks. And that's a big part of this new C7 design. We Americans are proof that people will buy cars from other countries. Plenty of us have imports. And speaking of that...

If someone states that we don't want a European car, I have to ask, "Really? Even if you could afford one?" Rarely do I hear anyone stating that they wouldn't want a Ferrari or Aston-Martin or Maserati in their garage. Nor do I hear people talk about how ugly many of those cars appear to be. Generally speaking, people gush over those brands. And yet, as soon as our designers in the USA start working with design & styling cues from those brands, we seem to jump on the "Ugly" or "Piece of Sh**" bandwagon. Why is that? It's like stating that we want our own original designs & styling concepts, but then sh** all over anything we come up with. Regardless of where the ideas come from, they are still our ideas. Globally, designers & stylists from all brands take cues from everyone else. All those people currently designing cars got their ideas from cars they saw growing up- maybe other designers concepts that were ahead of the time at the time. But now the future is here and these designers are taking those concepts and implementing them into their own designs. Look at the history of automotive design globally in the past 100 years. If trends weren't a global idea, there'd still be plenty of supercars riding around on 14" wheels. But they don't. Now everyone is riding around on 18"-20" wheels. Is it strictly functional or strictly design & style that led everyone to this point? Probably a little of both. But none of this occurred in just one geographic location with one specific brand. It happened globally because that's how car designers & stylists think.

Technology & fashion are global concepts. GM appears to be showing that they understand this. In my opinion, they've done an excellent job advancing the engineering, design, and style of the Corvette and in doing so, make it appeal to a much broader group of potential buyers. Granted, there's always going to be brand snobbery, both domestic and foreign. Many people in Italy wouldn't dare own a Corvette because it's not a Ferrari or people in Germany because it's not a Porsche. But I give propers to the Corvette engineers, designers, and stylists that are definitely making it harder for the snobs to ignore the fact that we've got a bangin' car that can no longer be easily dismissed as a cheap, unrefined, and uninspired American product.

The Corvette has conquered America. Our sites are now set on YOU Italy, Germany, and Japan!!! We're cominagetcha!!!

Point taken. But with the redesign was hoping corvette woundnt lose its identity. Looks too much like the camaro from the rear. And not VETTE like. Understand the both are GM but still not sure how other markets will like the camaro like rear. Sure I would drive a c7. Just don't think at this time one would be in my garage. Going to Bowling Green in April will deside then if it world class.
 
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I think any distractions with the rear end looking like a Camaro are entirely North American based observations. We see/say "Camaro" because we are familiar with it. Globally, the Camaro isn't that well known, so the comparisons to it across the pond will be minimized. And based on other manufacturers designs, I think the overall impression of the rear-end won't be contested as much either. Globally, I don't believe the car is all that radical, as long as everything is functional and purpose-built, which seems to be the case.

I look at cars from boutique manufacturers such as Konisegg, Saleen, and McLaren. Then I look at the top shelf of more mass production mfgs like Audi, Mercedes AMG, Ferrari, and Lexus. Design-wise, the Corvette is not out of place; It fits in quite nicely!
 
Forget what everyone is saying this is an American car it's not a world car it fits right in with what they say about Amercian cars, big, guady tacky, overdone. There is no flow in the car the proportions are off the interrior is to cluttered seats gimmicks over funtion you may see other cars in it but that is part of the way things are done here a kind of "big tent" mind set this is what happens when you get focuse groups to design your car instead of real designers. Some will like it maybe just it's new and flashy, some will hate it because the Corvette identiy is lost in this redue. Why call it Stingray ? if it wasn't for putting in on the side of the car who would have even put the two together? No this is not a world class car... if the last few tryies where not this one will sure not be.
 
Old mans car

I am disappointed in the C7 because I am a old man. I am 74 and have had a Corvette since the early 90's when I could first afford one. When I look around the room at the Corvette Club I belong to I don't see anyone under 50. At the shows almost all the Corvettes are owned by 50+ people. My C5 is getting old and I was hoping to replace it with a C7 but this probably will not be. I was hoping the designers would realize there customer base was grumpy old men and build the car with a little more comfort and room. A little easier to get in and out of. And have a place for me to store my walking cane.

Yes, I do want a preformance car but I don't need a world beater. I still haven't seen 100+ in my 2001 convertible and don't figure I will ever race a Corvette. I do want a great looking car and running car I can continue to drive with my friends in the Corvette Club on tours, rallys and shows. The C7 is not for me. I expect I will just go ahead, get rid of my daily driver, have some work done on the old C5 and get a sports sedan for everything but what I use my pickup for and car club activities.

I will wait and take a in person look at the C7 when it hits the showrooms but I believe now GM has written me off so my question is who gets the $65,000 I have saved up for a new 2014 car.

Texas Charles
 
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I am disappointed in the C7 because I am a old man. I am 74 and have had a Corvette since the early 90's when I could first afford one. When I look around the room at the Corvette Club I belong to I don't see anyone under 50. At the shows almost all the Corvettes are owned by 50+ people. I was hoping the designers would realize there customer base was grumpy old men and build the car with a little more comfort and room. A little easier to get in and out of. And have a place for me to store my walking cane.
Charles, Welcome to the :CAC

I was going to quote specific pieces of your post, but then realized it's all pointing to the same thing.

Your experience with Corvette clubs and shows is completely reversed from mine. I was in a Corvette Club and the average age was probably 60-ish. And the car shows are mostly people in their 40's.

Unfortunately, and with all due respect, if GM catered to the grumpy old men ("GOM"), that wouldn't leave much life left in the marque. As it turns out, there is a comparable car for the GOM crowd. It's Cadillac. The CTS-V or the discontinued XLR would be right up your alley! In fact, since you don't plan on going over 100mph, even the standard CTS coupe will easily fit your needs and wishes. And you're still within the GM brand!
 
I love the design and hope to have one in the future (as long as I can fit in it :D).
 
See ya, raise ya

Evolution, you're dead on. The General is taking on the world. Corvette has raised more than a few Euro-brows at LeMans over the past decade+ and, yes, Porsche does sell a few cars here in the USA. Time we returned the favor. And if anyone thinks there aren't Corvette fans already in Europe, you don't know Jack. Jack Panzica, that is. Check this out:
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com...scussion/129891-car-packed-europe-awaits.html
Get to know the Corvette Vagabond Corvette Vagabond - Home Page and come to terms with your roots. Or buy a Viper...nobody's stopping you. Just, please, stop crying.
 
I guess all you younger guys should look bcack how this corvette fever, got started. Back in the day when they first introduced in 1953, I was 18, and saw my first corvette. I just love it and told my then girl friend that I was going to get one, ( whos now my wife ), in those days we all wanted a corvette. In those days it was either Ford, Chrysler and GM. I guess what I am getting at we were all young, and that what the car mfg where after. This has all changed, they do not try to get the younger people to buy this great car. Pricing, and all the ad go for the older well to do folks. I am now 77 and still drive a 1996 LT4 CE, my other vettes were 1962 340hp, 1966 327 350 hp and a 1978 L82 (all four speeds). I have seen all the changes, and since the C4 the styling has lost a lot of the vette looks (in my opinion). So if any of these new vette people know what the wave is all about I would be surprised. I do not like the rear end of the C7. Larry Save the wave
 
I guess all you younger guys should look bcack how this corvette fever, got started. Back in the day when they first introduced in 1953, I was 18, and saw my first corvette. I just love it and told my then girl friend that I was going to get one, ( whos now my wife ), in those days we all wanted a corvette. In those days it was either Ford, Chrysler and GM. I guess what I am getting at we were all young, and that what the car mfg where after. This has all changed, they do not try to get the younger people to buy this great car. Pricing, and all the ad go for the older well to do folks. I am now 77 and still drive a 1996 LT4 CE, my other vettes were 1962 340hp, 1966 327 350 hp and a 1978 L82 (all four speeds). I have seen all the changes, and since the C4 the styling has lost a lot of the vette looks (in my opinion). So if any of these new vette people know what the wave is all about I would be surprised. I do not like the rear end of the C7. Larry Save the wave
Larry, thanks for sharing that. It's never a bad thing to remember the passion that drives us to want Corvettes. When I was 18, the Vette of the day was anemic but had coke-bottle curves and I wanted it bad...

Maybe, just maybe, this C7 will excite the same kind of reaction throughout North America and beyond? I sure hope so! GM could use a hit now and what's good for GM is good for America, right?

-Mac
 
Hi Larry

I guess all you younger guys should look bcack how this corvette fever, got started...
Larry, you're a bona fide Corvette guy, no doubt. When you were 18, I was only 3, but I loved Corvettes when I was a kid too. I still like 'em all - or most, anyway...can't get into all that ground effects stuff - but I don't see any reason to dig in my heels against the newer cars. I mean, does your '96 look at all like your '62? Anyway, I'm 62 and you're 77. I'll still wave to you but, I gotta tell you, I'm gonna wave at a 25 year old in a C-7 and I'll bet he waves back. One thing about Corvette Fever: it's contagious.
 
I already have another GM special interest truck - the SSR

Charles, Welcome to the :CAC

I was going to quote specific pieces of your post, but then realized it's all pointing to the same thing.

Your experience with Corvette clubs and shows is completely reversed from mine. I was in a Corvette Club and the average age was probably 60-ish. And the car shows are mostly people in their 40's.

Unfortunately, and with all due respect, if GM catered to the grumpy old men ("GOM"), that wouldn't leave much life left in the marque. As it turns out, there is a comparable car for the GOM crowd. It's Cadillac. The CTS-V or the discontinued XLR would be right up your alley! In fact, since you don't plan on going over 100mph, even the standard CTS coupe will easily fit your needs and wishes. And you're still within the GM brand!


I am a car nut and I already have a GM special interest truck a 2006 SSR. I am long term member of the local Corvette club and one of the requirements is to own a Corvette. I want to stay a member for the friends I have made over the years. If I am going to a car activity but not with the Corvette Club I drive it as it is almost perfect for my needs. But there is not local group for SSR's. Yes the CTS/V is an option I have thought about and would consider but the CTS/V is not a convertible and the road is full of CTS's. Right now I am going to wait for an inperson look at the C7 before I make any decisions. I know GM is looking towards selling younger guys Corvettes about every 5 to 7 years and probably are willing to give up on us who would be buying their last Corvette before getting a power wheel chair. But that doesn't stop me from being disappointed.

Probably my best bet it to put my 2001 Convertible in the shop for a new paint job and interior. The motor, transmission and running gear will be going good for many years. Then just keep on using it. It only has 36,000 miles but has suffered from the Texas Sun. A bright shiny new Corvette would have looked great in my garage.

Thanks for your comments and insights. I wish GM well on the sales of the new C7. It looks like an awesome car.

Texas Charles:upthumbs
 
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I am disappointed in the C7 because I am a old man. I am 74 and have had a Corvette since the early 90's when I could first afford one. When I look around the room at the Corvette Club I belong to I don't see anyone under 50. At the shows almost all the Corvettes are owned by 50+ people. My C5 is getting old and I was hoping to replace it with a C7 but this probably will not be. I was hoping the designers would realize there customer base was grumpy old men and build the car with a little more comfort and room. A little easier to get in and out of. And have a place for me to store my walking cane.

Yes, I do want a preformance car but I don't need a world beater. I still haven't seen 100+ in my 2001 convertible and don't figure I will ever race a Corvette. I do want a great looking car and running car I can continue to drive with my friends in the Corvette Club on tours, rallys and shows. The C7 is not for me. I expect I will just go ahead, get rid of my daily driver, have some work done on the old C5 and get a sports sedan for everything but what I use my pickup for and car club activities.

I will wait and take a in person look at the C7 when it hits the showrooms but I believe now GM has written me off so my question is who gets the $65,000 I have saved up for a new 2014 car.

Texas Charles

They did make a "Grumpy Old Man" Vette, with a "Grumpy Old Man" motor... It was the Cadillac XLR with a Northstar. Go take a low mile used one for a ride, my Dad did, he dumped a flawless 1999 C5 for one. But my Dad is a Vette guy, he will getting the 2014 Vette as soon as the convertible is out.

I like the look of the new car, it's the first one I've liked better than my '69 styling wise.
 
Evolution, you're dead on. The General is taking on the world. Corvette has raised more than a few Euro-brows at LeMans over the past decade+ and, yes, Porsche does sell a few cars here in the USA. Time we returned the favor. And if anyone thinks there aren't Corvette fans already in Europe, you don't know Jack.. Just, please, stop crying.

Agreed. I have several friends in France, and all are Corvette owners; one is a 2010 GS in Jetstream Blue. They are passionate about the car. I think the Stingray will do well here AND there....:thumb
 
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I guess what I am getting at we were all young, and that what the car mfg where after. This has all changed, they do not try to get the younger people to buy this great car.
Too many variables have shifted since the 1950's. It's not possible to make the Corvette a car that young people can afford. That's why there's the Cobalt SS or Camaro.
Do you know what kind of backlash would occur if Chevy made a Corvette that "young people" could afford? Just take a look at the older CAC threads that talked of making a lower cost, 6-cylinder version of the Corvette. If you thought the outcry about the C7 was bad, "you ain't seen nothing" until you hear the venom spit over a 6-cylinder vette. In addition to that, it's a lose/lose situation overall for Chevy. You potentially devalue the Corvette marque and at the same time cannibalize your Cobalt & Camaro sales.
Although it will be many years before I could imaging buying a brand new Vette, I'm entirely OK with that. If you're a Vette lover, that's what you are. Not being able to afford the latest/greatest will not change that for anyone. Finding a "cared for" used Corvette that I like suits me just fine! That's also one of the benefits to the GM design...they last forever with just the most basic of general maintenance. The engines are bulletproof and the bodies don't rust. WIN!
 
Point taken. But with the redesign was hoping corvette woundnt lose its identity. Looks too much like the camaro from the rear. And not VETTE like. Understand the both are GM but still not sure how other markets will like the camaro like rear. Sure I would drive a c7. Just don't think at this time one would be in my garage. Going to Bowling Green in April will deside then if it world class.


Can I ask how your comment of "Obama Motors" has any relevance to the discussion of the C7?
In your opinion, how has it manifested itself in the design and engineering of the C7?
"European motor?", "European interior?". What exactly is "European" about it?
:eyerole
 
The grumpy old men didn't like the current generation Camaro because it was too different from the last generation. The new version outsold the Mustang for only the second time in history, and continues to outsell it. It has brought in current generation buyers in the 25 to 40 demographic. Now do you understand GMs decision to go a different way with Vette styling? I get it, whether I like it, or not.
 
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Can I ask how your comment of "Obama Motors" has any relevance to the discussion of the C7?
In your opinion, how has it manifested itself in the design and engineering of the C7?
"European motor?", "European interior?". What exactly is "European" about it?
:eyerole
As an FYI, Matt posted his comment in a different thread. And as a heads-up, I don't want this thread to delve into political views. It's not the point of this thread.
:)
 

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