A "tiring" decision

[jwilliams]

pgtr, I was responding to a PM Vinn sent me and it was easier to post my reply here, so my last post reflects an answer to his question of what the difference between pursuit and other tires is....you correct about the P225/70R15 goodyear being marketed as a retail tire. However the 16" goodyear P225/60R16 eagle rs-a plus version is a pursuit tire. Goodyear does not list it on their website. It's suggested retail price is over $200.00. (their msrp) As to the statement that tire pricing varies widely on the street and is open to negotiation is not the case in california. Costco and Tirerack have assured that. Margins on tires are 10-25% especially on higher cost tires. If you can get a retailer to match or get close to Tirerack prices you are getting a very fair deal.

 

[lnirenberg]

I had OEM RSAs on an all wheel drive audi sedan a while back and they were mediocre at best. They didn't have very good wet grip, the wear sucked and I think they were out of round. Not impressed. I currently have 225/70-15 Firestone of some stripe on original 15" rallys but have recently purchased 16" TT IIs and have mounted 235/60-16 Yokahama Avid V4S which are within a fraction heightwise of the OEM F70-15s. They are not expensive and got very good reviews on the tire rack site. I can't figure out why your 225s are rubbing as I have had no clearance problems and it is my understanding you should have clearance up to 255/60s. I'm sure you'll go through the front end after you make your tire/wheel pick.

 

[pgtr]

pgtr, I was responding to a PM Vinn sent me and it was easier to post my reply here, so my last post reflects an answer to his question of what the difference between pursuit and other tires is....you correct about the P225/70R15 goodyear being marketed as a retail tire. However the 16" goodyear P225/60R16 eagle rs-a plus version is a pursuit tire. Goodyear does not list it on their website. It's suggested retail price is over $200.00. (their msrp)

Hmmm... I'm certain there is a V rated 225/60R16 under the RSA label - but I didn't catch the part about 'plus'. The retail RSA as well as the pursuit versions of the Firestone and General are approx sub $100 tires. I don't see why a police dept would spent $200 on a GY when they can get 2 other tires designed for pursuit purposes at a more reasonable $100 as well as the retail version of the RSA for $100ish. Nor in the past data I've seen on pursuit tire tests did I note any special 'plus' version of the RSA (oversight?) - but it has been a few years. Thanks for the insights - did not know about the 'plus' version.

As to the statement that tire pricing varies widely on the street and is open to negotiation is not the case in california. Costco and Tirerack have assured that. Margins on tires are 10-25% especially on higher cost tires. If you can get a retailer to match or get close to Tirerack prices you are getting a very fair deal.

Well that's probably true of many places w/ WalMart, Sam's etc... I prefer local tire shops or a local Discount Tire location - they always quote a price and I usually seem to negotiate a better final agreed price that is, as you say, 'close' to the Racks. I'm not above showing them a printout from the Rack's site but I don't expect them to match per se either. I presume (and have observed) plenty of people pay their initial quoted prices. And there are some local tire shops and service stations that have some pretty hefty prices on the more premium stuff but are also pretty dirt cheap on their more basic bread and butter stuff. Thanks for the followup.

---

I had OEM RSAs on an all wheel drive audi sedan a while back and they were mediocre at best. They didn't have very good wet grip, the wear sucked and I think they were out of round. Not impressed.

On a typical all-season perf tire I'm happy w/ anythign that lasts beyond 30K. A longer lasting tire say in the 40Ks or better is more likely a hard rubber tire that compromises dry adhesion... Interesting observations about the wet perf. To be honest, even the non-performance fare popular among the C3 crowd can potentially have pretty good perf in the wet even if they lack it most everwhere else. Wet can be quite the equalizer.

 

[lnirenberg]

Well that's probably true of many places w/ WalMart, Sam's etc... I prefer local tire shops or a local Discount Tire location - they always quote a price and I usually seem to negotiate a better final agreed price that is, as you say, 'close' to the Racks. I'm not above showing them a printout from the Rack's site but I don't expect them to match per se either. I presume (and have observed) plenty of people pay their initial quoted prices. And there are some local tire shops and service stations that have some pretty hefty prices on the more premium stuff but are also pretty dirt cheap on their more basic bread and butter stuff. Thanks for the followup.

Well said. I used to buy all my tires at NTB and their policy is show me anywhere (tirerack mostly) in print where you can buy tires for less and we will match. They added $10 to tirerack's price to cover what would have been shipping costs and away you go. I bought some expensive large low profile tires, both winter and summer tread, for my current daily ride--an Audi S6--and I have saved as much as $70 per tire this way, not exactly chump change. Most people I see in there pay whatever they are asked and never negotiate. The only problem is Sears just sold NTB to some other company and they are a bit f***ed up at the moment and realigning what brands they are going to carry. In my neck of the woods the individual or small chain guys don't do this, so I expect soon enough there will be no more ma & pa tire shops and if we want to deal with a human with a pulse vs the net we'll all end up at Walmart (no dirty lyrics in my store mister) or Costco. Go figure.

Hey Vinn, despite the many options you can take comfort in the fact that whatever tire you choose will be lights out better than the shoes they put on in St Louis all those years ago.

 

[74bigblock]

I got these last October:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Firestone&tireModel=Firehawk+Indy+500&partnum=57SR5FHI500RWL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

They are great tires... hook very very well (even with the 454) and great mileage, plus the RWL and the indy 500 logo look cool as hell. Avail in 70, 65, 60, and 50 profiles. I run 255/70/15's... no rub. I attached a pic.

 

[lnirenberg]

I got these last October:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Firestone&tireModel=Firehawk+Indy+500&partnum=57SR5FHI500RWL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

They are great tires... hook very very well (even with the 454) and great mileage, plus the RWL and the indy 500 logo look cool as hell. Avail in 70, 65, 60, and 50 profiles. I run 255/70/15's... no rub. I attached a pic.

Wow! Did you raise your suspension as that size tire is more than 2" taller than OEM size? How about speedo calibration, new gears etc.?

 

[74bigblock]

The front suspension is stock... as far as I know and have looked. The rear has an old fiberglass leaf, and seems to sit higher than most. They are adjustable if you buy the longer bolts. I don't think the difference in 60 to 70 is 2 inches. Maybey someone can correct us? There was no gearing change and the speedo is pretty spot on based on the stupid laser gun machines the police put out on the side of the road to show you that you are exceeding the limit. This is how the car came when I bought it; if it ain't broke....


I did swap out to Bilstiens, but that doesnt effect the ride height.

 

[jwilliams]

pgtr, yes, there's a rs-a v-rated p225/60r16, the plus version is the most popular with police agencies. State & Gov't contract price on pursuit tire for goodyear is like $68.00 per tire. Makes ya wish you had a black & white vette...

Gov't contract prices are so far below dealer cost for tires it would make you wonder how the tire manufacturer makes any $$$ on the sale. Then it makes you wonder how bad they stick it to the retailers and wholesalers since I doubt any manufacturer will sell at a loss...

Vinn sorry to hijack your thread...back to the original purpose of the thread. There's alot of good options out there for ya, you just have to decide which will suit your needs. I feel the same as most, you can do waaaay better than BFG Radial T/A's or Firestone Indy 500's. (sorry 74bigblock) The Indy 500 is a better looking tire IMHO and a better wet weather tire than the BFG, but alot of the other tires mentioned are better sport tires. If you want a nice looking, nostaglic tire, I think the firestone is a good choice. Firestone could have done so much better by the Indy 500 name by building a true sport tire with a real speed rating and better handling, better traction, better lateral stiffness, etc...but we got this thing instead. (I get to whine because I'm a firestone dealer) We shall have to wait to see what the reintroduction of the wide oval brings us....

 

[MoeJr]

Just to throw one more tire in here. One of Cooper Tires other brands, Mastercraft also has an H rated 225-70R15 under the model MR823

 

[Vinn]

Nothing wrong with hijacking, the more I can learn here the better!!

My best bet now may be to go to my local dealer (Flynn's Tire - always been great to me) and see what they offer. If I still have trouble, maybe it's time to mount some red and blue lights on my T-tops and get some tires that way...


Thanks all,

Vince

 

[lnirenberg]

Its a sad day when the entire tire market is overrun with demand for oversized wheels on rice rockets, German hot rods and mediocre passenger tires for everyone else. We can upgrade the suspension, steering, audio and general performance to 21st century levels, but the ultimate performance is limited by tire availability, pitiful. If the RSA pusuit (though I think what should be pursued is a refund on the purchase price) is the best option to retain a 15" wheel we, the vette masses, must rise up against our corporate oppressors and demand more. Or not, just a thought.

 

[406shark]

I don't think the difference in 60 to 70 is 2 inches. Maybey someone can correct us? There was no gearing change and the speedo is pretty spot on based on the stupid laser gun machines the police put out on the side of the road to show you that you are exceeding the limit. This is how the car came when I bought it; if it ain't broke....

Check out this site http://www.1010tires.com/tiresizecalculator.asp?action=submit

There is a 2" difference in diameter between a 255/60-15 and a 255/70-15.

The previous owner may have changed the speedo gear.

Jeff

 

[74bigblock]

Check out this site http://www.1010tires.com/tiresizecalculator.asp?action=submit

There is a 2" difference in diameter between a 255/60-15 and a 255/70-15.

The previous owner may have changed the speedo gear.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff!!! That's the best link I've seen in a while! Learn somthin every day.

Back on topic... lets ask some important questions:
1) How often do you exceed 120 MPH?
2) How often do you take hair pin turns at 50 MPH?


What's cheap? What looks good? What hooks up decent? What works in all weather best?

I can tell you I love my Firestones. They hook great... better than great.... maybe its my car i dunno, but look at my sig... and look at my other car in my signature... my vette still gets off the line significantly better. These tires are fantastic in the rain too. Not an Iota of sidesteping in the rain (yes I have driven my vette in the rain two or three times... got caught in it... what can ya do... it's Chicago!).

Good luck with your quest for rubber. I have given up on this topic.

Dave

 

[pgtr]

pgtr, yes, there's a rs-a v-rated p225/60r16, the plus version is the most popular with police agencies.

OK that begs the question - what exactly does the plus version offer over the regular V-rated RSA? The last police tire tests I saw from a few years ago used the plain RSA (as well as the PV40 (now PV41) and General X2K VR4). Are the plus versions newer?

If you want a nice looking, nostaglic tire, I think the firestone is a good choice.

Hmmmm, if it can't muster an H speed rating I'd strongly suggest punting on any tire regardless of it's looks.

Firestone could have done so much better by the Indy 500 name by building a true sport tire with a real speed rating and better handling, better traction, better lateral stiffness, etc...but we got this thing instead. (I get to whine because I'm a firestone dealer) We shall have to wait to see what the reintroduction of the wide oval brings us....

Preaching the choir big time!!! Hah! So you are in the tire biz! Interesing - now I see how you are so knowledge - cool! OK can you divulge what you mean when you say "reintroduction of the wide oval" - I thought they sold off the rights to that name to one of the bias-ply repro companies. Yes, what's needed is a V or even just H rated tire w/ a nostalgic look in 15" sizes like 225/70.

---

Just to throw one more tire in here. One of Cooper Tires other brands, Mastercraft also has an H rated 225-70R15 under the model MR823

Thanks - maybe it's a cousin to the Cooper Cobra that's H rated...

Its a sad day when the entire tire market is overrun with demand for oversized wheels on rice rockets, German hot rods and mediocre passenger tires for everyone else. We can upgrade the suspension, steering, audio and general performance to 21st century levels, but the ultimate performance is limited by tire availability, pitiful. If the RSA pusuit (though I think what should be pursued is a refund on the purchase price) is the best option to retain a 15" wheel we, the vette masses, must rise up against our corporate oppressors and demand more. Or not, just a thought.

The RSA has at the least equals in the PV41 and General 2K V4 tires - it's one of 3 V rated tires avail in 225/70R15. There's a number of H rated all season performance tires as well (see above).

Sad day but to a certain degree I think we've brought this upon ourselves. Given those options - C3ers as a whole overwhelming vote for cheaper non-performance tires w/o the strength or safety margin let alone performance of a V or even H rated tire - all in the name of a few bucks saved and cosmetics. And there's the rapture w/ BIBS (bigger is better syndrom) - everyone seems to want wider bigger taller rubber with w/ little understanding of it's affect on suspension dynamics. I cannot begin to estimate how many C3s I see w/ miserable non-performance granny tires built to minimal S or T ratings sporting only sidewall cosmetics I see - sometimes w/ all kinds of trick suspension mods to boot. Yet a bone stock C3 w/ suspension in good order can run rings around them sporting nothing but some quality V rated all-season performance tires (or better yet summer tires if avail). In my book performance and safety starts with tires, period.

I hate to say it but If I were president for a day of a tire maker I'd be be making a weak business case for a quality V or even H rated all season performance tire in 15" w/ a vintage looking sidewall treatment - I fear most would continue to buy my competitors cheapo non-performance cosmetic tire to save $15. Besides many of these tires don't wear out - they are replaced due to age/cracking etc... I don't know if the tire industry will let them get away w/ it but I heard DOT was at one point considering raising the bar on tires which might actually make the S or T speed rated ilk a thing of the past. Not likely but might have been interesting. I sincerely hope not but maybe a few more Ford Explorer like scenarios w/ lots of carnage might change attitudes towards tires (shudder).

All I can say is ***** to the tire makers enough and maybe someone will listen - until then hope they sustain 'Police' tires in 15" despite the fact most Crown Vics sport 16" rims now. That and work to educate the C3 community to ask for more in their tires rather than the usual bottom-end S or T rated fare w/ B temperature most go for. Then there's some 17X8" replacement rims out there too w/ correct offsets too...

Sorry for the long rant fellas - ya got me goin on a sore subject!

---

Vinn,

My advice remains as before - never compromise on tires on any personal vehicle operated on highways beit a Corvette or an econobox commuter. I'm not advocating exotic DOT legal racing tires. It simply means at a MINIMUM an 'H' speed rated tire w/ 'A' temperature (not 'S' or 'T' speed rated nor 'B' temperature rating). In your case the 225/70R15 is the correct size and you've got at least 3 V-rated tires and a handfull of H rated tires all in BWs. A tire that meets these standards should be a stronger tire w/ better performance characteristics and a greater safety margin. To be blunt but honest in my opinion - the usual S or T speed rated fare popular w/ the C3 crowd is, as a category, mediocre and I won't put such tires on any of my vehicles not even an ol' C3.

 

[pgtr]

Back on topic... lets ask some important questions:
1) How often do you exceed 120 MPH?

This is a typical point raised by those defending the practice of going with non-performance tires and suggests a lack of understanding as to tire construction techniques to obtain an H or better speed rating.

It's not about driving all day long at 120 on the autobahn, it's about strength as it relates to performacne and safety. Currently we have a choice between the barest of minimal standards (S or T rated, B temp ) and a step up to an H or even V tire with A temp. And I might add it's at least been proposed and discussed by DOT to up the standard and I'm not so sure these entry level tires will cut it.

SO I ask why would anybody put such tires on any car, let alone a Corvette, operated at 75+ mph? Even plenty of everyday average cars include better tires than this - let alone a sophisticated high end GT like a Corvette.

People seem to see value in safety items like shoulder harnesses, collapsible steering columns, crumple zones, air bags and ABS, or in performance items like exhausts, heads, carbs, EFI, etc... yet when it comes to tires even when given a choice for a mere few dollars more... people seem content with the absolute lowest entry level, weakest option available with the least safety margin...

Ever seen what happens to fiberglass when chunks of weaker rubber disintegrate at speed?

In addition to the single most important PERFORMANCE aspect of a sports car, if one doesn't believe a tire is one of the most important SAFETY equipment items on any car - one apparently completely missed what happened to Ford, Firestone and numerous victims on the roads a few years back.

For about a 15% increase in manufacturing cost - an H or better rated tire w/ 'A' temp gives you a stronger tire, with better heat handling characteristics, and additioanl layers of nylon cappings not present in the entry level basic S or T rated fare. A stronger tire in turn gives better handling performance which should be intuitive. And a tire with a lower UTQG typically (UTQG can't be compared easily across brands but only generally) is a softer compound that gives better dry adhesion.

2) How often do you take hair pin turns at 50 MPH?

In an independent rear suspension, 4 wheel disc brake sports car w/ low CG and excellent fore/aft weight distribution w/ gobs of torque in every stock base model - the operative question is: How often does one pass up such an opportunity?

What's cheap?

In my book, 'cheap' doesn't really enter into the picture for tires. Be cheap on air filters or paint jobs. But tires? With all due respect - NEVER. The H rated 225s potentially offer some savings if that helps while still providing a good minimal degree of strength, safety and performance.

What looks good? What hooks up decent? What works in all weather best?

I seriously doubt any S or T rated cosmetic performer is in the same league as a tire like the V rated options w/ UTQG in the 300s and A temp. They only offer cosmetic performance.

Clearly a summer tire is inappropriate in all weather - the single tire that does it all would be an 'all season performance tire'.

I can tell you I love my Firestones. They hook great... better than great.... maybe its my car i dunno, but look at my sig... and look at my other car in my signature... my vette still gets off the line significantly better. These tires are fantastic in the rain too. Not an Iota of sidesteping in the rain (yes I have driven my vette in the rain two or three times... got caught in it... what can ya do... it's Chicago!).

I too had similar cosmetic tires until I started learning about performance and tire construction...
What if these tires were run at a local amateur autoX in a street tire class? Or what if they were inadvertently underinflated and cruised in the desert southwest at speed in the summer with a fully loaded up car perhaps w/ a BB?

Everyone has a choice since US DOT tire standards still remain low - I just like to see folks come to informed fact based opinions, take the time to learn something about tires as well as handling and performance and safety and construction as it relates to tires. I find it interesting that so many seem so well informed about engines and transmissions and heads and carbs and oil and on and on yet when it comes to tires... well...

 

[lnirenberg]

In my book, 'cheap' doesn't really enter into the picture for tires. Be cheap on air filters or paint jobs. But tires? With all due respect - NEVER. The H rated 225s potentially offer some savings if that helps while still providing a good minimal degree of strength, safety and performance.

Wow, you said it all Brother. ditto the entire tirade. I just thought if I copied the entire text Vinn's head would explode. Given the mileage many of us put on our cars annually, especially in the cold north, decent wear rated tire should give us many years of safe driving at a premium cost of $200 at most over mediocre tires. I'm sure every one of us has spent $200 on something for our cars far harder to justify than good tires. The real problems/expense comes in in finding 15" tires that actually fit on the 8" rally wheels and are good in the real world we drive in. Up here in the Boston area it's a very scary world as we are the original home of the a** h*** driver--the worst I've ever seen. The only 15" tire I could find was a sports truck tire. 16" wheels are only slightly better but I did find the Yokahama Avid V4S which sells for only $80 on tirerack and also comes in an H rated tire for slghtly less money (sorry I have only mentioned this tire about a dozen times on the C3 forum). I actually have no basis other then web research that these tires will be any good 'cause they won't be driven till spring. My personal opinion is that it is also important that any wheel tire combo fit the car from an asthetic angle and just look right. Unless you have a real resto rod I think its easy to end up with a setup that is just too big or too small for the wheel opening meaning its important the combo stays within the range of the OEM diameter of around 27'. Thankfully, I was reigned in by the sizes available in my chosen tire and ended up with 235/60-16s which I'm sure has capabilities well above my driving skills. The tire price wasn't really the scary part, it was the cash drain of the 16" TT IIs that made my heart skip a few beats--the price of entry I guess. Boy, I thought I could only get passionate about politics but tires--who knew.

 

[74bigblock]

This is a typical point raised by those defending the practice of going with non-performance tires and suggests a lack of understanding as to tire construction techniques to obtain an H or better speed rating.

It's not about driving all day long at 120 on the autobahn, it's about strength as it relates to performacne and safety. Currently we have a choice between the barest of minimal standards (S or T rated, B temp ) and a step up to an H or even V tire with A temp. And I might add it's at least been proposed and discussed by DOT to up the standard and I'm not so sure these entry level tires will cut it.

SO I ask why would anybody put such tires on any car, let alone a Corvette, operated at 75+ mph? Even plenty of everyday average cars include better tires than this - let alone a sophisticated high end GT like a Corvette.

People seem to see value in safety items like shoulder harnesses, collapsible steering columns, crumple zones, air bags and ABS, or in performance items like exhausts, heads, carbs, EFI, etc... yet when it comes to tires even when given a choice for a mere few dollars more... people seem content with the absolute lowest entry level, weakest option available with the least safety margin...

Ever seen what happens to fiberglass when chunks of weaker rubber disintegrate at speed?

In addition to the single most important PERFORMANCE aspect of a sports car, if one doesn't believe a tire is one of the most important SAFETY equipment items on any car - one apparently completely missed what happened to Ford, Firestone and numerous victims on the roads a few years back.

For about a 15% increase in manufacturing cost - an H or better rated tire w/ 'A' temp gives you a stronger tire, with better heat handling characteristics, and additioanl layers of nylon cappings not present in the entry level basic S or T rated fare. A stronger tire in turn gives better handling performance which should be intuitive. And a tire with a lower UTQG typically (UTQG can't be compared easily across brands but only generally) is a softer compound that gives better dry adhesion.




In an independent rear suspension, 4 wheel disc brake sports car w/ low CG and excellent fore/aft weight distribution w/ gobs of torque in every stock base model - the operative question is: How often does one pass up such an opportunity?


In my book, 'cheap' doesn't really enter into the picture for tires. Be cheap on air filters or paint jobs. But tires? With all due respect - NEVER. The H rated 225s potentially offer some savings if that helps while still providing a good minimal degree of strength, safety and performance.

I seriously doubt any S or T rated cosmetic performer is in the same league as a tire like the V rated options w/ UTQG in the 300s and A temp. They only offer cosmetic performance.

Clearly a summer tire is inappropriate in all weather - the single tire that does it all would be an 'all season performance tire'.

I too had similar cosmetic tires until I started learning about performance and tire construction...
What if these tires were run at a local amateur autoX in a street tire class? Or what if they were inadvertently underinflated and cruised in the desert southwest at speed in the summer with a fully loaded up car perhaps w/ a BB?

Everyone has a choice since US DOT tire standards still remain low - I just like to see folks come to informed fact based opinions, take the time to learn something about tires as well as handling and performance and safety and construction as it relates to tires. I find it interesting that so many seem so well informed about engines and transmissions and heads and carbs and oil and on and on yet when it comes to tires... well...

I was going to be done with this thread, but I feel that I must make a statement in the defense of those who value their Antique Vehicle due to the rudeness of the above posting...

I'm happy with my tires... I have a C3 not a viper or a C4/5/6. Im not cheap... as you insinuate... I just prefer not to beat the **** out of my 30 year old love of my life. I drive her to the cruise night in the next town (I live in Chicago.. there is no desert here)... on occasion I stretch her legs and take her on a 30-40 mile drive... That's usually quite a few stop lights. When I do get on the highway... the speed limit is 55. I may do 70, or 80. I check my tire pressure OFTEN, as should anyone who cares about their car. When I want to drive like a FLAMING A$$HOLE... I pull out the other car. It has air bags, twice as many gears, and has Y rated tires for 186MPH. She does take hair pin turns at 50... OFTEN.

 

[lnirenberg]

I just heard Vinn's head explode!

 

[pgtr]

I feel that I must make a statement in the defense of those who value their Antique Vehicle due to the rudeness of the above posting...

I appologize for any perceived rudeness - I've tried to be fact based and differentiate my opinions from what facts I can offer. The design and engineering of a tire as to performance, strength, safety, materials or construction isn't about people's 'feelings' - it's about engineering and materials and design. People seem to connect 'personal feelings' to things like impressive sidewall graphics. When I first dabbled in autocrossing on those same non-performance hard rubber S or T radials you advocate - I quickly realized just how inappropriate these tires were anywhere. I didn't take it personally - I merely realized I'd been duped by marketeers that every tire maker employes. I discovered placing faith in sidewall graphics was not where safety or perfornance or quality was at. That as it turned out made about as much sense as saying an engine is well built because it has a lot of chrome. What I learned very simply was that there is a lot more to a tire and to keep things simple nowadays, just looking for an H speed and A temperature is a minimum for anything but a lawn tractor.

The whole point of understanding how to differentiate a quality tire from one that is not - is in essense, 'defense' of oneself and one's 'Antique Vehicle'. Advocating cheap basic entry level minimal S or T tires is not, IMO a good 'defense' of ANY vehicle antique or otherwise.

I have a C3 not a viper or a C4/5/6. Im not cheap... as you insinuate... I just prefer not to beat the **** out of my 30 year old love of my life. I drive her to the cruise night in the next town (I live in Chicago.. there is no desert here)... on occasion I stretch her legs and take her on a 30-40 mile drive... That's usually quite a few stop lights. When I do get on the highway... the speed limit is 55. I may do 70, or 80. I check my tire pressure OFTEN, as should anyone who cares about their car. When I want to drive like a FLAMING A$$HOLE... I pull out the other car. It has air bags, twice as many gears, and has Y rated tires for 186MPH. She does take hair pin turns at 50... OFTEN.

In many parts of the country 70 or 75 is a common limit on expressways and interstates and depending on location, local enforcement may allow for a smidge beyond that (+5 hereabouts). But as I said above, an H rated or better, quality tire is about more than sustained operation at speed. Please review the previous posts. Besides a potentially catostrophic tire failure can occur at any speed or temperature. An emergency maneuver can be required at any moment at any speed and statistics show that most accidents and maneuvers occur in a very short distance of home often at relatively slow speeds. A good tire gives an added advantage or safety margin in almost all scenarios.

So if I follow the above logic... if an older vehicle lacks some of the modern safety items like air bags and only has shoulder belts and maybe a collapsible steering wheel or reinforced doors like a typical C3 - then why bother with the added performance and strength a mid-level H rated tire implies? Just stick with a basic minimal entry level S or T tire to 'match' the lack of safety equipment elsewhere on the vehicle?

 

[lnirenberg]

Passionate not rude. You don't have to beat on your shark to enjoy the benefits of good tires. Based on nothing but my rudimentary understanding of basic physics, I would bet that your average H/V rated tire will produce shorter braking distances than the S/Ts. In my neck of the woods that and the increased handling/grip has saved my car from some potential glass shattering experiences--note previous comment re.: sh__y Boston drivers. To each his own, I guess.