A "tiring" decision

[jwilliams]

Hey Vinn, If your head hasn't popped yet, chime in, I reread this thread, you never really said if want a really sporty tire, or just something better than the BFG radials you have now...

74bigblock, if I have offended in any way, it was not intended, nor do I think that pgtr means too either. I suspect we think a little alike. I am in the tire biz, I do this all day long, so I try to bring candid advice where I can on this forum. I choose to do so because this forum has helped me alot with info on vette's and my own 89. It sounds as though the Indy 500 is exactly want you want and need. It may be all that Vinn needs too. I autocross my 89, so after autocrossing on kumho 710's you get a little spoiled with all the grip. My dad has a 65 coupe with michelin XGT H4's. He drives his about like you do, but he gets so much enjoyment out of the car now, because he has confidence in the tires to stick in a corner. Ask him about how he put it over a center divider prior to getting good tires on the car many years ago. It just depresses me to see the kick a$$ tires that are on the market and older cars get hosed with things like BFG Radial t/a's. This tire has only one thing going, the name, its so old its not funny anymore.

I choose to autocross my car and set it up strictly for this because I value my drivers licence and my 89 brings out my naughty side. So I commend all you who can drive any vette on the street and be a good citizen. So much rice to fry, so little time....

I am here to offer any info I can, I have no motives other than to further the enjoyment of any and all corvettes.

So, pgtr I let the cat out of the bag about where I get my tire knowledge, fess up dude, you know way too much, you in the biz too????

 

[Vinn]

Hey guys, I'm still here reading along. What my original question was, first: can I get good enough tires in 15" size that will be comparable in performance to the 17" replacements and also: what are these tires? Since I won't be putting many miles on this car I would sacrafice tire life for performance. I'd also like any input from other owners here about what they have and if they like it or not (thanks Jay, pgtr, Dave, Ernie, lnirenberg, and MorJr for contributing).

Thanks again,
Vince

And no, my head hasn't exploded.... yet... :L

 

[jwilliams]

Vinn, good to know your head hasn't gone BOOM! . So to try and keep this on topic, yes I think you can get what you need out of a 15" tire. The various pursuit tires will work, I know the Michelin Pilot Xgt H4 will be a lot of fun to drive on, several others have listed tires that I think will get er done!!! So now you need to decide and let us all know what you've picked.

Jay

 

[pgtr]

Nah not in the biz - just someone who learned about tires over the years. I only dabble in autoxing once in a while but that was what initially started me on to learning about tires. The reason I retained it was because because I had to dig a bit deeper to learn - there is not a lot of good fact based info on tires - especially tires in the vintage performance car area as we all can plainly see. Resources, info, knowledge, magazines and books help people be well informed about exhaust systems, heads, carb, paint technology, even arguably suspension but when it comes to tires ... well...

I encourage folks to at least do a couple few autoXes in their lives in whatever car that might be and maybe go back once in a blue moon especially after purchasing a new/different car. Doesn't have to be some fancy C6 or Z06. Do it once on a hard rubber S or T non-performance tires to learn about drifting. But I encourage people to simply do it on good all around street performance tires (simply an H rated or better tire is all). Now that's not the recipe for serious competition, LTOD or whatever w/ more exotic tires or DOT legal racing tires. But it's a good compromise, doesn't involve tires w/ ridiculously short mileage, high costs or sophisticated setups and tweaks of pressures and all. It keeps one in a 'stock' class for comparison. And my local club even allows people to self-elect whether they run 'street' tires or not (not just the DOT legal definition but a legitimate street tire one would use daily). Just good simple clean cheap fun and lots of education on the same basic setup that works well for daily driving to work on cross country treks or whatever. Ultimatley it translates into improved driving skills on the road for that occasional deserted stretch or an emergency maneuvre.

It's taught me that you can take $10K of engine mods, suspension mods, etc etc etc and NOTHING but NOTHING approaches the performance 'bang to buck' that an investment in quality tires provides. Bar none - NOTHING.

The one exception to that rule would be the modest invesment in attending just a few autoXs and improving ones own basic skills. Yes, even a 30 yr old bone stock sports car w/ good tires is likely got performance potential beyond most of our skills - myself included.

While at times I find tirerack.com a convenient research tool I do want to share several caveats. One is their data could benefit from some scrubbing - I've found a fair number of data errors there - simple stuff like dimensional data or model #s or PSI or something. If one has any doubt - it doesn't hurt do a final check of data at the manufacturers site. Another thing I warn about is their 'ratings'. I suspect people often arrive at unrealistic conclusions based on their feedback ratings which especially involves apples to oranges comparison. For example the population that provides feedback for a Buick wagon are not the same folks providing feedback for some C4 tires. A quiet highway radial may have a significantly higher rating than performance all seasons. Someone ignorantly running summer tires at ambient temps below 30F might give extremely low ratings. The point is, those numbers may often lack relevancy. I recommend ignoring them or only looking at them in the limited light of numbers from highly similar/comparable tires. On the other hand some of the individual remarks are well written and worth a read thru perhaps if one has the time.

It's great to have you on the forum - given your extensive experience in both the tire industry and autocrossing - that's a darn unique and valuable resource that we are very luck to have here!!!

---

Vinn - I'll echo the above sentiments - yes there are 2 or 3 V rated pursuit tires and as we've discovered - a growing handful of H rated tires in 225/70R15 coming out of the woodwork. They are all 'all season' performance tires and most (w/ 1 exception) are reasonably priced (have you priced a set of tires for a Z06?). There are no summer tires or tires w/ unidirectional treads for 15" C3s but other than that - I think you can do reasonably well and you and your car will be happier for it with any of these tires (see below).

W/ a C3 and 15" wheels it's just easy to get overwhelmed by the massive selection of S or T rated fare - last I checked it was like 4-6 pages! of tires on tirerack of this fare. So it was really great to see your post and your interest in a better tire for your C3 w/ 15" wheels. I've been down on 15" tire options for C3s for a while now and I learned quite a bit from this thread myself to reconsider like the 2 RSA variations and the additional choices in H rate tires. My current list of goodies has grown to include:

68-82 P225/70R15
 							  Load UTQG
 Goodyear	Eagle RS-A		100V 260AA
 Goodyear	Eagle RS-A 'Plus' ---- -----
 Firestone   PV41			  100V 340AA
 General	 XP-2000 V4		100V 320AA
 Michelin	Pilot XGT H4	  100H 400AA
 Cooper	  Cobra GTH		 100H 340AA
 MasterTires M-R 823		   100H 340AA
 Sumitomo	HTR 200		   100H 380AA
   [/font]

The Pilots were perhaps my most pleasant surprise out of this given what I've heard about them elsewhere in others sizes and other cars. My hunch is the Cooper/MasterTires might represent the potential 'bargain' of the bunch if cost is a constraint and they too may be darn good tires. Keep in mind that with the exception of Jay, most of our opinions about specific tires tend to be somewhat antecdotal - obviously few of us have the resources to go out and try a variety of tires in a variety of similar circumstances with the aide of an objective evaluation process. That's why I like to concentrate on the more irrefutable aspects of tires such as materials, construction and specifications.