Argh! Need clutch help ASAP!

[kevin-design]

Well, I had my fingers crossed, but it just wouln't be fair to let me get a clutch repaired without any hangups...

So I bought the RAM clutch kit from Summit racing. (this one):
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=RAM-98764

And hired a mechanic to switch it out. It took a week to get to my car, and the plan was that it would be done tonight (flywheel resurfaced). Well, I found out today that they can't resurface this particular flywheel for this particular vette. Apparently I need to buy a replacement flywheel.

I also found out that this wasn't the factory clutch as I'd believed ( have no record of a clutch repair). Anyway, so I found this out at like 5pm and made about 50 frantic phone calls, first in town, then somewhat out of town- then to major cities, then to performance catalogs (summit, jegs, etc.) and finally (as places started to close up) to the west coast where I was hoping they could still make an overnight shipment.

Unbelieveably-No luck. Am I the only guy in the whole country that needs a f#$&# flywheel?!??!?
The only thing I was able to find was an aluminum flywheel (here: http://www.madvet.com/shop?store=3.&frame=3186&part=611593 )
from a place in Effingham- 1.5hrs south of here. I have received mixed opinions on whether or not this will work with the ram clutch that I have. In either case, it sounds like due to the lack of springs that the stock flywheel (apparently) has its engagement would be rough, jerky, and noisy if it worked at all. One guy told me that they replace clutces with a centerforce kit that includes the flywheel. This would be a dual friction kit for like $750 or something. Everyone I ask seems to have a different opinion or recommendation for how to handle this situation. I was hoping to have this done today or tomorrow so that I could drive it home to Chicago this weekend. I guess I should face reality and re-insure my z28 or take the vmax or something. Probably no sense in rushing a job like this with mismatched parts. Still, since my car is in pieces and taking up a bay at the garage I want to handle this ASAP. Anyone who can help me make the right choice, please post here.
many thanks!
-Kevin
Questions:
What's a Dual-Friction ('dual mass'?) clutch? Is this strictly a reference to the coefficient of friction of materials used?

Should I consider an aluminum flywheel?

Will parts mentioned work together?

Should I return my RAM clutch and buy a complete kit (inc. FW)?

Who has this stuff IN STOCK!?

What do you call the integrated spring mechanism(s)?

Why is a factory flywheel (ala Napa or dealer) $1k+ (AND OOS)?

 

[BigRed]

Not to put down anything but Ive have heard through the pages here the Ram Clutch is junk. I think it was 69myWay who put it into a 90 and it fell apart at the track for him. (lots of cuss words)

I have the Centerforce Dual Friction and yes it is a "standard" clutch system. It is also a direct replacement fit no mods nessecary. It gives 90% more grab than stock however lasts about 30% shorter due to the grab.

The push springs on the cover plate have a secondary set of fingers to (To my understanding) make the clutch easier to push under speed and also to push harder.

The disc is all dual springs with a really nice quality material used in the pads.

I'll buy another after this one is burnt out for sure.

 

[rrubel]

I'll second the recommendation for a centerforce setup. I still have the factory flywheel (in fact, isn't an "upgrade" for the LT1 a switch back to the L98's flywheel?) but also installed CF's throwout bearing. Be warned, though - theirs is "self-centering" and when in neutral w/the clutch out it's noisy (sounds like heat shields rattling, but push the clutch in and they slow and stop).
[RICHR]

 

[-=Jeff=-]

I would returnt he current parts you bought.

There are a few approaches to this.

Centerforce as the guys mentioned sell a kit,

It is a Pressure Plate, Sprung Hub Disc, and a 35lb steel flywheel (single mass)

your 92 has a Dual mass flywheel in stock form (reason for it being 1K)
the dual mass has dampening and the stock disc is not sprung.

With the Centerforce setup you will not here gear noise or if so it will be minimal. I had this set-up for 6 years without trouble

I now have a Stock Pressure Plate, SPEC stage 1 disc, and an aluminum flywheel. I like this set-up, the motor revs faster ( 13 lb flywheel) but I get gear noise in Neutral.

Either way will work good luck

 

[kevin-design]

live in the now!

Okay- the grim reality has set in that I'm not going to get this done by the weekend. So I want to do the job right- I still have some of the same questions though:
If I picked up the fidanza aluminum flywheel, would this work with the ram clutch? Seems like it's a good idea to buffer shocks to the transmission with either springs set into the clutch disc (is that 'dual friction?') or set into the flywheel like my stock flywheel has. If I went with the ram clutch+fidanza flywheel, there would be no springs or buffering (other than the natural slip) at all.
Sounds like you're happy with your Al flywheel, and I'm always up for a performance upgrade even if the cost is a little bit of noise in neutral. I just can't seem to get anyone to agree on what will work and what will work best. Not like I have many options because even Centerforce doesn't carry the cluch kit I need in stock. Summit is backordered until Oct 1st.

a single mass flywheel means it is basically just a flat disc, right?
a dual mass flywheel has embedded springs, right?

Should I 'upgrade' to a L98 flywheel (as per rrubel's description), maybe that would be more available locally? with this bolt right on?

Still looking for suggestions on who might have a flywheel and/or CF kit in stock...
Thanks for the help- but don't quit on me now! Still need info!
-kevin

 

[-=Jeff=-]

Well there are a ton of Choices..

to begin with. I would not recommend a non Sprung disc with a Single Mass Flywheel (SMF).


So What you can do is this..

Get a GM pressure plate
LT1 camaro Disc
Aluminum flywheel

my friend is using this on his ZR1 an it works well.

Mine is the same except for the Disc, I am using a SPEC stage 1 that I don't like and may replace it with a stage 2.

Honestly there is not that much trans noise..

 

[kevin-design]

Okay, I'm worried about getting a set of part that matches- can I just say that I want an LT1 camaro disc and it will fit? what is the improvement over a disc for a corvette? I can see why you'd say not to get a sprung disc. I'd rather not spend $1.1k on a stock flywheel so I will probably get a SMF. I don't think the RAM clutch kit that I have is sprung other than the little leaf springs around the perimeter, so I will probably return it. Is the centerforce clutch kit sprung? A guy I spoke with today recommended against aluminum flywheels and told me that an engine needs that spinning inertia to maintain balance and reduce the wear on the crank and bearings. He continued to say that Al flywheels work best on high-revving cars and don't really get you anything as far as low end torque. I don't think that CF makes a stage two for my application. Just dual friction. The guy at CF recommended clutch 039000 but in referencing it on the site, it doesn't say its for an LT1, just a 350 chevy engine. Is that the camaro disc that you were suggesting? The one I was thinking I needed was DF000100. I really just want to buy the first thing I see now because this is totally lame that I wont' have my car this weekend, and probably won't successfully order a clutch until monday! Grrrrrr! Anyway, as you can see- I'm still very confused. Thanks for the info- please write more!
-Kevin

 

[BigRed]

Rrubel Mine doesn't make any noise at all! Are you sure yours is ok?

 

[rrubel]

Big Red, yes I'm sure it's OK... the mechanic actually warned me before he did the work that the CF throwout bearing is noisy. It was quiet for about the first thousand miles or so and then started making the rattling noise he described. Not all that loud; if you weren't listening for it you'd probably miss it.
[RICHR]

 

[kevin-design]

Still need help!

Okay, it's now officially Monday and I haven't been able to find a clutch or flywheel replacement!!! My car is still up on the rack and the situation sucks for all parties involved. I need to place an order by noon on Monday, so here's the info I have assembled:

- The system as a whole should have some type of spring buffer to dampen vibrations and stress upon engagement.

-The RAM clutch I have is a solid disc- from what I expect is partly because the system it was designed for included a dual-mass flywheel (sprung).

-Other kits for my model year will also be designed with a DMF in mind.

-If I purchase a SMF (Aluminum?) then I should purchase a clutch disc that has integrated springs so that I still have some type of dampening. None of the recommended kits would have sprung clutch discs because it would mean that both disc and FW would be sprung using the OEM FW. Therefore I need to find a disc that would be sprung and yet still fit my car.

I know that I can't just mix and match parts at random and expect them to fit/function properly. Is there a formula or recipe for matching up a system? Jeff: How did you arrive at the parts combination you have? Who can I ask about a system? (other than you guys!)

Thanks for any help- and if you're going to repsond, please do it NOW as it will be much less helpful information AFTER I order.

Thanks!
-Kevin

 

[-=Jeff=-]

Kevin,

in my post I basically said to get a sprung hub with the SMF.

Call Spec Clutches
1-800-828-4379

Tell them what you have and ask what they recommend.

They can sell you a complete set.. Disc (sprung) Pressure Plate (with TO bearing) and Flywheel (SMF either Aluminum or Steel)

Now the reason my friend use the LT1 Camaro(sprung) Disc is that it works well and it keeps the disc as the weakest link (cheaper then breaking other things).

Centerforce also makes the pieces.
www.centerforce.com
1 (928) 771-8422


Again, I would go with a SMF, Sprung hub disc, and a pressure plate