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Would you want to see an automated top on the C6 convertible? Yes or no, and why?
Automated Top?
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phxraptor
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A vert in the Vette price range should have it standard equipment.
Gorgon
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If they can implement a reliable system and keep the weight down I'm all for it. But it wouldn't bother me to keep the manual top that the C5 has.
Leon
Leon
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Why?Gorgon said:
Gorgon
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Rob said:
While I haven't used the C5 top personally, one thing I like about it is it can be raised and lowered from one side fo the car. On my C4 vert I have to undo the latches at the windshield and then pull a lever to release the latches in the deck lid that hold the rear of the top down. The C5 does not have these latches in the deck lid and will not require me to walk to the other side of the car to press the rear of the top into the latches in the deck lid when the top is put up.
The C5 top needs to have the latches released on the windshield and then a lift at the front and rear of the top, folding up like an accordian and then opening the deck lid and putting it away. Much quicker than the C4. What I can't comment on is how weather proof the C5 top is.
I'm one of the few people that believe a sports car should be light weight. I'll sacrifice the time it takes to put the top up and down to keep the car as light as possible.
Leon
JBsC5
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I think the C5 top is perfect the way it is.
Of course the targa is not a favorite of mine. ( I rarely took it off on my 1999 JMO) Can't leave the car with top off.
I do wish the car was offered with a body colored big @ss sunroof..yet I know I am in the minority.
remember..You asked ...
Of course the targa is not a favorite of mine. ( I rarely took it off on my 1999 JMO) Can't leave the car with top off.
I do wish the car was offered with a body colored big @ss sunroof..yet I know I am in the minority.
remember..You asked ...
C
corvettecrazy
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it should be an OPTION! let the old folks get the power top and the guys who want less weight and dont mind doing it manually get it w/o the power top
7
78SilvAnniv
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I think it'd be a nice option...
...but I don't see how they could do it and keep the weight down.
But if they offered it as an option...THEN we would be getting into the realm of "lets water this sportscar down and camoflage it into a luxury car by making sacrifices to its' sportscar image".
Maybe if they keep the Z06 as the power car, the coupe as standard muscle and the 'vert as a cruising car they could get away with it...but I think most true Corvette fans want a powerful sportscar whether it is a coupe or a convertible.
I do think an automated top would sell very well with three specific groups of vehicle purchasers: the older and less flexible set, young & spoiled set and finally the image conscious (ego) set.
Heidi
...but I don't see how they could do it and keep the weight down.
But if they offered it as an option...THEN we would be getting into the realm of "lets water this sportscar down and camoflage it into a luxury car by making sacrifices to its' sportscar image".
Maybe if they keep the Z06 as the power car, the coupe as standard muscle and the 'vert as a cruising car they could get away with it...but I think most true Corvette fans want a powerful sportscar whether it is a coupe or a convertible.
I do think an automated top would sell very well with three specific groups of vehicle purchasers: the older and less flexible set, young & spoiled set and finally the image conscious (ego) set.
Heidi
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Re: I think it'd be a nice option...
The rationale behind this is that he feels that the high performance version of the Corvette should have the stiffest body structure available in order to handle that high performance. The fixed roof coupe structure is stronger and more rigid than the coupe and convertible.
Personally, I totally agree with him and I think it's great that they will leave the Z06 as its own unique model. If you really stop and think about it, by nature, convertibles tend to have a lot of flex. The coupe with the removable roof panel also experiences this, but not to the same degree as the convertible. When you remove the roof off of a vehicle, the body/chassis of the vehicle can flex under increased stress. Depending on how the car is engineered, some cars will exhibit more flex than others.
The C5, by nature is incredibly stiff due to its hydroformed rail technology, but the fixed roof Z06 is even better. Therefore, it only makes sense to make the Z06 the "higher performance" Corvette.
Not to get side tracked here, but I can tell you that based upon what Dave Hill said at his C5 Seminar this morning, the C6 Z06 will remain a hardtop model and will debut in 2006 as a 2006 model.78SilvAnniv said:
The rationale behind this is that he feels that the high performance version of the Corvette should have the stiffest body structure available in order to handle that high performance. The fixed roof coupe structure is stronger and more rigid than the coupe and convertible.
Personally, I totally agree with him and I think it's great that they will leave the Z06 as its own unique model. If you really stop and think about it, by nature, convertibles tend to have a lot of flex. The coupe with the removable roof panel also experiences this, but not to the same degree as the convertible. When you remove the roof off of a vehicle, the body/chassis of the vehicle can flex under increased stress. Depending on how the car is engineered, some cars will exhibit more flex than others.
The C5, by nature is incredibly stiff due to its hydroformed rail technology, but the fixed roof Z06 is even better. Therefore, it only makes sense to make the Z06 the "higher performance" Corvette.
7
78SilvAnniv
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Re: Re: I think it'd be a nice option...
Ah, but I don't want the Corvette to be watered down at all...I'd rather that all models were considered performance vehicles. I do think that it could be done, but I don't want anything to be sacrificed in the process.
Heidi
Rob said:
Ah, but I don't want the Corvette to be watered down at all...I'd rather that all models were considered performance vehicles. I do think that it could be done, but I don't want anything to be sacrificed in the process.
Heidi
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Re: Re: Re: I think it'd be a nice option...
It's pretty obvious that he is not going to release any vital information about the car, regardless of the people that still tried to get the information out of him.
The C6 will have more of everything. The performance of the coupe and the convertible will be more like the Z06 that we have now, but the C6 Z06 will be that much better.
The other thing that he spent a good chunk of time talking about was Corvette racing and the beneficial effects of racing the Corvette at LeMans and the ALMS.
Each year, he has to meet with GM upper management and basically defend a budget to race the Corvette. Much of what they have learned while racing the Corvette will trickle down into the C6.
I am extremely happy to see that Dave Hill is as proud and excited about Corvette racing as I am. I always believed that to remain competitive in the sports car arena, the Corvette should be raced and put up against the very best that Europe has to offer.
Competition improves the breed, and when you look at cars like Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Audi, etc., A LOT of what they have learned from competitive racing has gone into some of the street cars that they build.
When GM announced in 1998 that they were taking the Corvette racing, I wanted to cry I was so happy. I knew that if it was a program they were going to support long term, great things would come from it, and in fact I think we'll see it in the C6.
Honestly, Corvette won't be watered down. Dave Hill brought up some very good points about the C6 this weekend.78SilvAnniv said:
It's pretty obvious that he is not going to release any vital information about the car, regardless of the people that still tried to get the information out of him.
The C6 will have more of everything. The performance of the coupe and the convertible will be more like the Z06 that we have now, but the C6 Z06 will be that much better.
The other thing that he spent a good chunk of time talking about was Corvette racing and the beneficial effects of racing the Corvette at LeMans and the ALMS.
Each year, he has to meet with GM upper management and basically defend a budget to race the Corvette. Much of what they have learned while racing the Corvette will trickle down into the C6.
I am extremely happy to see that Dave Hill is as proud and excited about Corvette racing as I am. I always believed that to remain competitive in the sports car arena, the Corvette should be raced and put up against the very best that Europe has to offer.
Competition improves the breed, and when you look at cars like Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Audi, etc., A LOT of what they have learned from competitive racing has gone into some of the street cars that they build.
When GM announced in 1998 that they were taking the Corvette racing, I wanted to cry I was so happy. I knew that if it was a program they were going to support long term, great things would come from it, and in fact I think we'll see it in the C6.
I don't agree with the fixed roof ZO6 concept... In the 60's they didn't care what engine you got with what body style... the chassis technology is so much better today I am sure a C5 or C6 convertible is much stiffer than yesteryear's coupe. If those cars could handle the power, why can't a modern day convertible handle it? Some people like racing with the top off/down, so why not let them?
Any racer that buys a convertible knows that there are plenty of trade offs that lead to a slower car... all GM needs to do is go back to their roots and let the car buyers dictate what they make and sell. There have been plenty of customers that have voiced their opinions about this besides me, so I know I am not the minority on this one.
Any racer that buys a convertible knows that there are plenty of trade offs that lead to a slower car... all GM needs to do is go back to their roots and let the car buyers dictate what they make and sell. There have been plenty of customers that have voiced their opinions about this besides me, so I know I am not the minority on this one.
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Vettelt193 said:
It is a different time in automotive manufacturing than it was back in "yesteryear". There are new government safety rules and emissions regulations that need to be followed.
Corvettes as well as just about all cars cannot be ordered the same way they were back in yesteryear.
Yes, you can go to a Maybach dealer, sit down, be shown a video of all the options, and then pour over a ring binder of leather swatches, paint chips, brand of champagne, etc., and completely customize your Maybach to the tune of $350,000+, but you are paying for the ability to do that.
S
sothpaw
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I have to agree with Vettelt193 on this one.
I was standing next to Rob, listening to Dave Hill, I just wasn't as receptive to that part of Hill's message. If the hardtop was developed for the Z06 motor, as he said, then why did the engine come out 2 years after the chassis? Maybe powertrain development problems...?
My job here at work is structural engineering. So I know something about dynamics, the natural frequency of the structure, and what affects that. My opinion is that the Coupe, when the roof is on it, could be designed to approach the characteristics of the FRC. On C5, they may in fact be very close.
So, in terms of performance, there's no reason why you can't have a targa roof Z06. Perhaps the weight will be slightly more, but who cares? As for the convertible, you could put the Z06 motor in that, but yeah, the performance would not be as good as the FRC.
I say, let the buyer decide, order whatever engine. Not GM.
I was standing next to Rob, listening to Dave Hill, I just wasn't as receptive to that part of Hill's message. If the hardtop was developed for the Z06 motor, as he said, then why did the engine come out 2 years after the chassis? Maybe powertrain development problems...?
My job here at work is structural engineering. So I know something about dynamics, the natural frequency of the structure, and what affects that. My opinion is that the Coupe, when the roof is on it, could be designed to approach the characteristics of the FRC. On C5, they may in fact be very close.
So, in terms of performance, there's no reason why you can't have a targa roof Z06. Perhaps the weight will be slightly more, but who cares? As for the convertible, you could put the Z06 motor in that, but yeah, the performance would not be as good as the FRC.
I say, let the buyer decide, order whatever engine. Not GM.
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Rob,
As to the original question I assume that you are referring to a folding hardtop like on the SSR or that small Mercedes. The SSR top was developed in Germany also. It folds down behind the seating area without compromising interior room or cargo space. A very well engineered design and something that is sure to completely replace the folding cloth top in the years to come. Security, durability, and interior comfort/sound level are some of the areas that will make this type of top a necessity on a high end car.
The weight difference will be so slight that practically no difference in performance figures will be appearant. Think Carbon fiber panels and light weight alloy mechanisms on expensive cars as opposed to steel panels on the SSR and more moderately priced convertibles. The benifits will far outweigh any shortcomings and the additional cost isn't going to make any difference to most people that can afford a new Corvette.
As for the current C5 folding top I am impressed with it's operation. I have raised and lowered these on several occasions and they are a breeze. The first time I raised one I was not aware that they snapped into place using over center techology and only tension to seal the rear bow to the deck lid. I'm sure my jaw dropped when it first snapped into place. For someone that is accustomed to ill fitting rear bows, latch and striker adjustments, and the joy of reaching into the rear to latch and unlatch the top on C1 and C2 Corvettes I was amazed. The seal seems to be excellant too as I never saw any light between the seal and the deck lid when I parked the car in the garage at night. About 50% of the shortcomings of convertible Corvette ownership had just been solved in this slick working top design.
Tom
As to the original question I assume that you are referring to a folding hardtop like on the SSR or that small Mercedes. The SSR top was developed in Germany also. It folds down behind the seating area without compromising interior room or cargo space. A very well engineered design and something that is sure to completely replace the folding cloth top in the years to come. Security, durability, and interior comfort/sound level are some of the areas that will make this type of top a necessity on a high end car.
The weight difference will be so slight that practically no difference in performance figures will be appearant. Think Carbon fiber panels and light weight alloy mechanisms on expensive cars as opposed to steel panels on the SSR and more moderately priced convertibles. The benifits will far outweigh any shortcomings and the additional cost isn't going to make any difference to most people that can afford a new Corvette.
As for the current C5 folding top I am impressed with it's operation. I have raised and lowered these on several occasions and they are a breeze. The first time I raised one I was not aware that they snapped into place using over center techology and only tension to seal the rear bow to the deck lid. I'm sure my jaw dropped when it first snapped into place. For someone that is accustomed to ill fitting rear bows, latch and striker adjustments, and the joy of reaching into the rear to latch and unlatch the top on C1 and C2 Corvettes I was amazed. The seal seems to be excellant too as I never saw any light between the seal and the deck lid when I parked the car in the garage at night. About 50% of the shortcomings of convertible Corvette ownership had just been solved in this slick working top design.
Tom
I agree with Tom on this one as well, the C5 has the best manual top you can get... I would rather spend the 30 seconds of time dropping the top myself over every having to worry about the added electronics, weight, and general problems an auto top could add to the mix. Anyone that has ever had a broken power window (especially one stuck down) would probably appreciate the manual top that much more. The Corvette top has never been that big or cumbersome to warrant a power top IMHO.
Back on the ZO6 convertible.... I understand that GM can't offer every option under the sun anymore, like in yesteryear. But you can't tell me that there is a government standard against a big engined convertible though. Just look at the new Viper... I am guessing a drop top ZO6 would be direct competition for the Viper, all for a bit less money. all anyone has asked for is the ZO6 engine in a convertible, I am not exactly sure what government standards they would need to pass, but it doesn't seem like that big of a difference to me... maybe someone could shed some light on this that knows more about all the rules and regulations?
Back on the ZO6 convertible.... I understand that GM can't offer every option under the sun anymore, like in yesteryear. But you can't tell me that there is a government standard against a big engined convertible though. Just look at the new Viper... I am guessing a drop top ZO6 would be direct competition for the Viper, all for a bit less money. all anyone has asked for is the ZO6 engine in a convertible, I am not exactly sure what government standards they would need to pass, but it doesn't seem like that big of a difference to me... maybe someone could shed some light on this that knows more about all the rules and regulations?
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Convertibles have rollover standards of their own and as far as I know they relate to the ability of the widshield frame to support the car weight in a series of tests. They are only allowed to crush down a certain amount. I don't think they are tied to engine size at all.
Tom
Tom
Why can't there be a compromise? How about something along the lines of t-tops? You could remove the sides with the structure being less compromised than the total removal you would see in the convertible. You could still get some decent sun and body flex wouldn't be as bad as a convertible or coupe with roof removed.
If that were impossible, I don't think 30 seconds is too much time to pull the top down. It would be a pretty high priced option and what happens when something goes wrong with it? It's not only how much it costs now but how much it will cost to maintain/repair it in the future.
If that were impossible, I don't think 30 seconds is too much time to pull the top down. It would be a pretty high priced option and what happens when something goes wrong with it? It's not only how much it costs now but how much it will cost to maintain/repair it in the future.
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I wouldn't think that it would be too big a deal to engineer a release mechanism so the top could be raised in an emergency if the power system failed.
Just to clarify my position, I would like a power folding hardtop but I see no need to power operate the cloth soft top.
Tom
Just to clarify my position, I would like a power folding hardtop but I see no need to power operate the cloth soft top.
Tom
Thumper
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I agree with Tom, I like gizmos like a power folding hardtop, but don't see a need for a power soft top.
BTW, it sure is nice to have a constructive thread in the C6 forum without the sarcasm and negativity of one specific poster.
Jeff
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