B2K question...

[bbvette]

Hi all, I’m pretty new to the site and to Callaway cars. I’m in the market for a B2K car, and have a few questions. Hopefully someone on here can clarify.

I see where records show a certain number of cars were ordered from the Bowling Green plant, and then I see where a certain number of cars were installed by Callaway. It seems as that almost every year has a difference between Bowling Green and Callaway in production numbers. If a car was not ordered as B2K car, but has the package on it, is it not considered a real B2K car? Also, I am a member of NCRS and would consider getting the car judged. Are there any requirements to have Callaway cars judged? Will I have to verify that the car is an “ordered” B2K car?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much. Jason

 

[jonstr]

Hi all, I’m pretty new to the site and to Callaway cars. I’m in the market for a B2K car, and have a few questions. Hopefully someone on here can clarify.

I see where records show a certain number of cars were ordered from the Bowling Green plant, and then I see where a certain number of cars were installed by Callaway. It seems as that almost every year has a difference between Bowling Green and Callaway in production numbers. If a car was not ordered as B2K car, but has the package on it, is it not considered a real B2K car? Also, I am a member of NCRS and would consider getting the car judged. Are there any requirements to have Callaway cars judged? Will I have to verify that the car is an “ordered” B2K car?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much. Jason

Hi Jason,
Welcome to the Callaway forum! I'll take a crack at answering your question since I started my association with the group by asking the exact same question.

If you're intention is to have the car NCRS judged, you need to get a car with an actual B2K option code, which indicates it was ordered from Chevrolet with the Twin Turbo option. The option code is carried on the equipment sticker under the center console lid (however, note that the option code does NOT appear on the GM window sticker). The option code sticker is what the judges will look for to validate it is a 'real' B2K car.

If memory serves, there is one exception. To jump start the initial production of B2Ks early in the 1987 model year, some cars were pulled from stock and sent to Callaway for conversion. I'm not sure how these are "verified" as B2K cars, maybe someone else can fill in this gap.

My answer is a little different from your question because Reeves Callaway has stated in the past that both B2K cars and the 'direct conversion' cars were equipped and treated the same way, hence they are "all B2K cars". Even though all the cars were built the same way, the NCRS does not share this view.

The other thing to understand is that the NCRS does not recognize the Aerobody as a "factory option" because it was not officially part of the B2K package. It is not possible to receive a Top Flight award if you get a car equipped with an Aerobody, I believe the best you can hope for is a second flight.

I hope this helps, and best of luck in your search for a Callaway!

 

[*89x2*]

Technically, Jonstr's reply is on the money however, please allow me to expand what the difference is and has been explained for judging.

Callaway Twin Turbo Corvettes for the most part, were ordered under RPO B2K. This RPO code will show up on the SPI (Service Parts Identification) label in the glovebox and may be on buildsheets, etc. Roughly 400 or the 510 cars have this code.

The other 100 cars are all twin turbo Callaway Corvettes and share the same technology - in fact, they were built right in line with cars wearing B2K in the glovebox. A Direct Conversion car however, is one that a customer, etc. brought to Callaway cars and may or may not have the model year specific components as another would. An example of this is an 87 w/ a flat hood, or an 89 w/ OZ wheels, etc.

Reeves had a rubber "B2K" stamp for cars that were already "in the pipeline" to dealers and sent to Old Lyme. They were treated the same as a car w/ "B2K" and we have letters to show this. Reasons for this happeneing, were priming the system for production, GM / trucking strikes, etc.

So can a car be judged in the NCRS w/ out "B2K" in the glovebox and still get high marks? Yes. They can and they have - at least one I know of, has acieved an NCRS Regional Award. The same decision was rendered for Bloomington Gold, IF (and ONLY IF) the car could be proven to have been built as a new car vs. a Direct Conversion which may have already been owned. The car in question, was done when new and won its Bloomington Gold Certificate, Benchmark, and Survivor awards - a MAJOR deal!

Cars that were built as Direct Conversions, said so in their records. It is something easy to track, as Callaway Cars knows when each car was done and if it was a new car when built. That reassured the Bloomington Gold folks and it was reported to me that while the NCRS was a bit confused, this all made enough sense to them as well.

I have been working onthe revisions for the NCRS Judging Manuals now for the past 10 mos. and will continue to do so. It is a great deal for me to be able to help the hobby this way, as the books were written primarily based upon one or two Callaways, certainly a great deal of it is 1987 specific and therefore, incorrect for the whole production run.

I hope this helps.
Chris

 

[bbvette]

Wow, thanks for the quick responses. I wasn't expecting to get this much information this soon. Both replies were very helpful in clarifying my confusion. I find all of this very interesting and am glad there are so many good resources out there. Thanks again for all the help. This will help me greatly in my search.

If possible, I would like to get some more views on the topic. How do you feel about direct conversion cars? Do you think the value will be (or is) less then “optioned” B2K cars? Or do you feel that it doesn’t matter? Does Callaway provide a service to find out information on past cars? Or is there some difficultyin getting information from them?

Thanks again.

 

[*89x2*]

Glad this info we share is useful :cool

Regarding any difference in values, there is none that I have seen, and I have been tracking these cars for close to two decades.

Also, please remember that when you use the term "Direct Conversion" that it is not the same as a Callaway Twin Turbo w/ out the B2K RPO on the SPI label.

If you have a SPECIFIC car in mind, call Joanne at the Callaway shop (860)434-9002 and she can help you with its history. As a rule, info is not distributed and as an owner, I am glad for that.

As far as addl. view on the topic, I am sure others will chime in and will add to this :cool

In the meantime, soak up the info on the Callaway Owners Group website

 

[Jeroenvgfn]

I do not have any more information as Chris and Jon been very informative

Just rests me to welcome you at the Callaway forum section on the Action Center.

ENJOY !

 

[jonstr]

Reeves had a rubber "B2K" stamp for cars that were already "in the pipeline" to dealers and sent to Old Lyme. They were treated the same as a car w/ "B2K" and we have letters to show this. Reasons for this happeneing, were priming the system for production, GM / trucking strikes, etc.

So can a car be judged in the NCRS w/ out "B2K" in the glovebox and still get high marks? Yes. They can and they have - at least one I know of, has acieved an NCRS Regional Award. The same decision was rendered for Bloomington Gold, IF (and ONLY IF) the car could be proven to have been built as a new car vs. a Direct Conversion which may have already been owned.

Ok, now I have a question. Are you saying that this 'rubber stamp' B2K could have happened in any of the years, and is acceptable to the NCRS (assuming adequate documentation is provided to validate the car), or is that only acceptable in specific years, like 1987 (first year production startup) or certain 'strike years'?

 

[SurfnSun]

Also worthy to note that only stock bodied cars qualify as the Aerobody kit was not ordered thru Chevrolet.

 

[calawyclif]

Hi All, this topic is one of the most interesting topics of all the ones on this site and off this site in the callaway world.
There has been a lot of info on this issue. I think many people who bought their cars were assured it was a B2K hence Callaways firm position on the issue. WHICH is the proper postion they should take. As far as a personal choice I would buy a car only if it HAS the RPO B2K option code through Chevrolet. I think it will make a difference in the future value of the car. I was in the market for a second car and it seemed like every car I was looking at did not have the RPO B2K on the lid. Once again just my opinion and choice in the matter. I have talked to some really nice people in the callaway world and I do not mean to offend anyone. Its just my position on the matter and I am sure many feel the same way. I am surprised though that not having the RPO B2K code isnt penalised in judging regardless of what paperwork you have. I mean if a car doesnt go down the asembly line it doesnt go down the assembly line. How can they say no to an aerobody then?? We'll see how the future plays out & hopefully all the cars are of equal value.

 

[*89x2*]

Ok, now I have a question. Are you saying that this 'rubber stamp' B2K could have happened in any of the years, and is acceptable to the NCRS (assuming adequate documentation is provided to validate the car), or is that only acceptable in specific years, like 1987 (first year production startup) or certain 'strike years'?

Rubber Stamps could have occured in any year of the Twin Turbo era. It was due to many factors - another one worth mentioning, is if a dealer who did not have a lot of an allocation and wanted to order a car, called to do so. They might have sent a car without the code.

Also in this time, there were some "dealers" who were NOT Chevrolet dealers. Rather, they were high line exotic dealers and would not have been able to order through Chevrolet's channels. The car would have still been new and built to the same specifications as any other car in the numbered sequence, but not have the B2K on the SPI label.

There is no way when someone walked into a dealer showroom in 1987 or 1991 for that matter, they cared to look in the glovebox at the SPI label. To the buyer, it was a Callaway Twin Turbo - a numbered car, built to one standard, period.

After having many long discussions on the matter, I came away with this (and my job was to provide info to the Bloomington Gold panel of Directors)... The standard for judging, is what is called, "Typical Factory Production, or "TFP."

TFP can be quantified in a Callaway Corvette (even in the SuperNaturals, but that is another story, entirely). When I presented the info, I proved beyond a shadow of ANY doubt that the car in question (a 1987 in this case, without the B2K in the SPI) was built to the same specs, using the same parts pick-list as a "B2K" coded car before and afterwards in the numbered sequence. There is no wavering from this matter of fact.

Now a Direct Conversion car as it was defined to me, would have used parts available and would not neccesarily meet the "TFP" standard for use in judging. Flat hods, different airbox, wonderbar, wheels, etc. It was very clear.

Now the burden of proof for getting a non-coded car judged, falls back on the OWNER who is presenting it to the judging body. This is the ONLY place it would then matter about the code, and only then it matters from an ease-of-judging perspective. There has NEVER been any values more or less for one another and the cars are not tracked that way for that purpose. I think Jonstr said it best, when he restated Reeves' thoughts on the matter. They are all B2Ks in his eyes. Who better to know.

 

[kruzmisl]

Can 'o' worms, but,
Some of the non-b2k cars were "used vehicles" that could have had many miles pre-conversion. I think that is a big difference, and I definitely prefer an ordered b2k sent to Callaway as a new vehicle, and I think the future will prove that out in values.
I know Reeves position but what else would he say about every car he built? Let's put it this way, two identical cars in every way for sale, one b2k, one blank, the b2k is a few thousand higher, I'm buying it, and so is everyone here!
I can assure you when I sell mine, it will be selling point.

 

[kingforward]

Can 'o' worms, but,
Some of the non-b2k cars were "used vehicles" that could have had many miles pre-conversion. I think that is a big difference, and I definitely prefer an ordered b2k sent to Callaway as a new vehicle, and I think the future will prove that out in values.
I know Reeves position but what else would he say about every car he built? Let's put it this way, two identical cars in every way for sale, one b2k, one blank, the b2k is a few thousand higher, I'm buying it, and so is everyone here!
I can assure you when I sell mine, it will be selling point.

I gotta agree with Kruz.....

 

[redb2k's]

I gotta agree with Kruz.....

ME TOO!!!!!!!!
When I was looking for another Callaway, I made sure it was a B2K (stamped on the RPO sticker). I think it makes a difference, But that maybe only me. I would look for one that is stamped if you are looking to have it judged. It would make things easier.

 

[callaway4fun]

Well there was an 87 that was judged and it had no B2K stamp .I personally feel that having the rpo B2K in the glove box will make those cars more desirable for people looking to have them judged. I like the fact that my car was factory ordered through a dealership. But as Chris states the cars were built exactly alike. You could not tell the difference other than the stamp and related paperwork.

 

[Jeroenvgfn]

So all SNAT vehicles will be *"miss"*-judged too because they are not original anymore?

:confused

and the C12 is not a C5 Corvette anymore , is that a league on its own ?

 

[*89x2*]

...so what do you do with the handful of Corvettes that have RPO B2K on their SPI labels, but were never converted to Callaway Twin Turbo Corvettes

The RPO on the SPI label did get the car the engine equipment, it only triggered certain items like mufflers, long air dam and a cooler for the ps. :ugh

 

[jonstr]

...so what do you do with the handful of Corvettes that have RPO B2K on their SPI labels, but were never converted to Callaway Twin Turbo Corvettes

If the guy at the most recent Russo and Steele auction in Scottsdale is an indicator, you hold on to it and try to sell it for BIG BUCKS at some point in the future. He brought a 1969 Camaro that was originally purchased for Yenko conversion, but it was never converted. The owner was hoping for 7 figures, his reserve was $500K, and it was a no sale at $440K.

 

[TurboLuigi]

Though I bet NCRS would ding the heck out of it if you tried to get it judged :L

-Luigi
:cool

 

[Ned Sutton]

The car that Chris mentioned belongs to me. I would be more than happy to share my Bloomington experience if anyone is interested. If it was not for all of Chris's hard work on this issue, guys like me with a 1550 mile original, non-restored car, missing the B2K stamp, could have never been awarded a Bloomington BENCHMARK Award for this old 1987 Callaway Corvette.
Ned Sutton

 

[*89x2*]

The car that Chris mentioned belongs to me. I would be more than happy to share my Bloomington experience if anyone is interested. If it was not for all of Chris's hard work on this issue, guys like me with a 1550 mile original, non-restored car, missing the B2K stamp, could have never been awarded a Bloomington BENCHMARK Award for this old 1987 Callaway Corvette.
Ned Sutton

Ned, your car is a nice car that is a prime example of how goofy this "system" can get... :W

Sharing with Reeves, your tale of getting your Callaway judged, he said how the heck would the NCRS even know what they were looking at without the support of the company? He was at the NCRS meet last month and told them tht they should be judging the cars without the code just as one with a code - the PAPERWORK is the key as you very well know :cool

Aside from a Direct Conversion car that was done few and far between (after the model year production was over), they were ALL built to the same standard off the same parts pick - list. This is actually a bit amusing that there would be this much debate by the judging body(s)