Best time to start modifications for increased horsepower and torque

[cavettefan]

When is the best time to start making modifications for increased horsepower and torque - out of the gate (e.g. right when the car is new), or after a break-in period of approximately 5,000 miles? I would imagine that for purposes of a baseline dyno run, after break-in would be best. However, I can imagine an argument that all of the new parts should be allowed to break-in together. Any feedback would be appreciated. In this context, modifications being considered to be made to an LS1 engine are: 1.) Swap the heads and cam from the LS6, 2.) Blackwing air filter system, 3.) Z06 Exhaust system with high flow catalytic converters, and 4.) Corsa cat-back exhaust upgrade.

 

[qwall]

IMO i think you can change the air filter to K&N right at the beginning, maybe even the same with spark plugs and wires, althou that doesnt have to be done cuz the wires and plugs are new.

q

 

[JBsC5]

FWIW I would enjoy the car as it is for the first 6 months..then add an air filter mod..then..add an exhaust..

Then when the fun off of that wears off..I'd do another mod like a Shaner throttle body..

If you decide you want more power. Don't go for the Z06 heads /cam /manifold/exhaust etc..

If your spending the time and money and have decided to ditch the GM warranty..you might as well go with a tuner package that will give you approximately 430 REAR WHEEL HP..

So to answer your question..I would do light mods a step at a time..and then after approximately 30 months or so..decide if you want a new C6 or a hot rod tuner C5..

Happy new year.

 

[Edmond]

I guess it really depends on how much you have to spend up front. But getting used to driving the car is a priority and after some significant mods, you may have to relearn how to drive your new monster.

I drive a Camry as well and it's quite a jump from one car to the other.

 

[JBsC5]

Good point Edmond..

Its really a matter of personal preference.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

JB

 

[cavettefan]

qwall and JBsC5,

I think that an improvement to the air filter is definitely in order at the start.

JBsC5,

The primary reason for considering the LS6 parts (cam, heads, exhaust) is due to wanting to keep the factory warranty in place. I am strongly considering the Magnetic Selective Ride Control option and the price for replacement parts is quite steep. I am researching whether adding LS6 parts will enable me to keep the factory warranty in place. If not, then the decision to go with non-LS6 parts becomes easier (especially if I find a good non-factory warranty to cover the F55 suspension).

Edmond,

I agree with you regarding re-learning how to drive the car after making the mods. Which was part of the reason for the post: jump in all at once or go in gradually. There was the additional question of break-in: do you let everything break-in together, or do you gradually change things and let the new parts and previous parts get to know each other.

My present inclination is to go with an improved airfilter at the start. Blackwing or Halltech seem to be the contenders at this point. I am also considering the cat-back exhaust at the same time. Where I go from there really seems to be dependent on the warranty issue.

If anyone has other feedback, please respond.

 

[Edmond]

I don't think upgrading to the LS6 parts would affect the warranty. It is a Corvette part made by GM, but you'd better call the dealership and ask to make sure. But if you come back and say, "GM said that if I put a K&N air filter in there, it would void the warranty." I would never buy a new Corvette. Most people who own Corvette's have done something to them for just a little more umphhh

If the engine is broken in now, I say go for it. If you're doing the mods yourself, it may take some time. They didn't build Rome overnight ya know!

I know it sounds redundant, but if you take a step back and think about it, everything is done one at a time unless you have the money to send it off to Mr. Lingenfelter.

 

[Ling_650vette]

Yeah, i wouldnt see why using LS6 parts would void the warranty, but yet that stuff gets tricky when dealing w/ the dealership.

IMO, the best time to do mods is when you've got a boat load of dinero sittin in your lap and you can just splurge

LS6 intake (if its a pre-01 LS1) long tube headers, good cat-back, high flowing cats, ported heads and a good cam are some of the most "common" mods. Like everything, exhaust and an air filter are the two beginning mods for most people. Enjoy the ride, and keep it rubber side down!

 

[cavettefan]

Edmond and Ling_650vette,

With the cost per corner for the F55 parts approaching $1,800, I am getting a response in writing from GM on the warranty coverage before proceeding with any LS6 upgrade items. One would think that there would not be any problems since the LS6 parts are GM parts. I would even be willing to have the dealer do the install so that I don't have to fight for coverage on the warranty. I will see what happens.

 

[Edmond]

Edmond and Ling_650vette,

With the cost per corner for the F55 parts approaching $1,800, I am getting a response in writing from GM on the warranty coverage before proceeding with any LS6 upgrade items. One would think that there would not be any problems since the LS6 parts are GM parts. I would even be willing to have the dealer do the install so that I don't have to fight for coverage on the warranty. I will see what happens.

Keep us informed about this because information like this can sway my decision on buying new cars in the future.

 

[JBsC5]

Just an FYI..

I remember guys with A4's and 3:15 or 2.73 rear gears thought that if they put in a 3.42 rear gear from a manual transmission car should not void that portion of the warranty because it was a gm part..I believe it would.
(drivetrain warranty would be lost)

Yet other non related warranty areas would not be affected..

and another story is a guy here in NJ who put in a line loc for occassional drag racing..GM voided the entire warranty..(b/c it meant he was racing the car)

If your going to do heads and cam..I would suggest a tuner like Vette doctors who from time to time have specials that run like 5200 dollars and offer a 3 year warranty on parts and labor that involved thier work..

BTW..almost anytime you do heads and cam..even with the LS6 parts..I believe you need to alter PCM..

Would that be part of the F55 suspension warranty?

Why not if you haven't bought the car yet consider a Z06? rather than build a coupe with F55 suspension as a possiblity?

Sounds like your still deciding..

You could get a zo6 for 5700 off list I believe from some internet car dealers (or could have b/f 12/31/02 and then just opened a targa roof for 9 grand?

If its the looks you prefer of the coupe..then just get the coupe and enjoy it..

If your going to mod ..in my humble opinion..buy a preowned Vette and then modify it..

There are a lot of excellent pre owned corvettes for sale..

 

[cavettefan]

JBsC5,

The example you cite in your post (selective swapping of rear end) is precisely the reason that I am attempting to get a statement in writing from GM regarding the affect on the factory warranty if I were to add LS6 parts.

I had seriously considered getting a Z06 prior to the post. However, after driving one for about 2 hours in various traffic conditions (with a fair amount of stop-and-go traffic), the next day, I was hobbling around with tendonitis in my left knee. At that point, I started thinking about how I could get to an "almost Z06" in the coupe. Based on Hib Halverson's post on the F55 suspension, I was very interested in the F55 option for the coupe as well. However, given the expense of repairs to the F55 suspension, the last thing that I wanted to do was proceed down a path that would void the factory warranty.

I am presently at the stage where I am working with a dealer to get written clarification from GM regarding warranty coverage for LS6 parts installed by the dealer prior to delivery. If GM vetoes the LS6 parts add-on idea, then I will be looking very seriously at buying used and sending the car off to Mr. Lingenfelter for some tuning magic. I agree with you about the state of the used market. There are some very good cars available for very reasonable prices as a result of the zero percent financing programs offered by the manufacturers.

Thanks to everyone for their comments and ideas. If anyone else has a comment/idea about how to proceed, please respond.

 

[ZZRider]

JB and the others have some very good points.

Each dealer can be a little different as to what they may let "slide by". I've heard of some being really particular, and others giving a lot of leeway. Good idea to get it in writing. I have been fortunate not to have had any warranty issues come up, so I can't offer any personal experience.

I will say that when I modded big time I understood the fact the warranty would likely be gone. I put many miles on my car anyway, so the warranty was gone early. Most reputable tuners will offer warranties for their work or products, so I got another 2yr/24k out of the deal. I started saving for mods right away, so when I was ready to mod a couple years ago I jumped in pretty big with a 383/N20,etc. A warning though, is that can be so addicting you just can't stop. I'm on a supercharged 422 now.

If you have some good self control, you'll be ok; as for me... I am certifiably out of control!!! :J

 

[Edmond]

I'm kind of surprised that no one asked you this question but:

What are your goals for this vehicle?

Are you going for 1/4 times, autocross or what?

 

[cavettefan]

Edmond,

As I mentioned in my reply to JBsC5, I was looking to achieve near Z06 performance without having to endure tendonitis from working the clutch on a real Z06. The F55 interest occurred after driving an F55-equipped coupe over a road surface that caused the Z06 that I had driven previously to experience some choppiness - the choppiness was gone in the F55-equipped coupe. However, the choppiness of the Z06 was not so objectionable that I would endure the increased expense of repairs to the F55 suspension absent warranty coverage. The Corvette is a great car - a strong performer in stock form and a good starting point to improve from. As JBsC5 recommended in his first post, start with small modifications and as the fun wears off, go for more until you are at a point to decide whether to move into a C6 or a hot rod tuner C5. My basic issue is whether I can achieve near Z06 performance along with the benefits of the F55 suspension without trashing the factory warranty.

 

[Edmond]

I guess you're really handcuffed until you get word from GM about your warranty information.

Don't know if you've considered this:

You can get the LT4 equipped Corvette which puts down similar power to an LS1. You'd have C4 styling (which I'm biased to ) and with some mods, you can run like a Z06. With the money that you could save from buying an LT4, as opposed to an LS1, you could really do some radical mods!

As for what to do with the suspension, I don't have a clue because I don't really get into cornering. I'd be so far ahead, I could take the corners slow!:L You could stroke that LT4 out to a 383 CID and put down 400+HP.

 

[cavettefan]

Edmond,

If I could find an LT4 in really good condition it would certainly be an option. However, going by the posts on eBay, I suspect that there are more LS1s in mint condition than there are LT4s in mint condition.

You are right that I am in handcuffs until the warranty issue is resolved. However, the dealer is there with me so to speak - he doesn't get the order until the warranty issue is favorably resolved.

 

[cavettefan]

I have news regarding the warranty issue.

DISCLAIMERS:

What I am posting is for informational use only; any questions regarding warranty coverage should be referred to competent counsel.

Now for the news.

There were two basic warranty issues: 1.) Coverage by the factory warranty for LS6 parts that are installed on the LS1 engine; and 2.) Coverage under the GM Major Guard extended warranty for both the LS6 parts and the F55 suspension. Each issue will be covered in turn.

Coverage by the factory warranty for LS6 parts that are installed on the LS1 engine:

The LS6 parts are manufactured and sold by GM; as such they will be covered by the factory warranty if installed on the LS1 engine prior to initial delivery of the vehicle. After the factory warranty expires, the LS6 parts will be covered by GM Major Guard because the LS6 parts are original equipment parts manufactured by GM. If there is a need for warranty repairs, the selling dealer has the documentation to prove that the parts were installed prior to original delivery.

Coverage under the GM Major Guard extended warranty for the F55 suspension:

There is an exclusion in the GM Major Guard policy for shock absorbers; the F55 suspension does not have "shock absorbers" per se, hence, the exclusion for shock absorbers does not apply.

While there was a certain amount of anxiety regarding whether there would be warranty coverage for swapping LS6 parts on an LS1 engine, it would appear that my concerns were misplaced. I am glad they were; things could have turned out otherwise.

 

[Edmond]

That sounds great. What are you going to do first? There is a member here selling his Z06 exhaust so maybe you should consider that as well???

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21060

 

[cavettefan]

Edmond,

I am going to be swapping the throttle body, heads & cam, and exhaust up to the catalytic converters. From the catalytic converters back, I am considering the Corsa system.

Unfortunately, the dealer will need to install new parts that they have received from GM to qualify for warranty coverage. Otherwise, I would have contacted the member who is selling the Z06 exhaust system.