Question: C4 tune up

[bartric]

Alright, so recently I've been pondering cranking some extra ponies out of my cars engine (at least eventually), and I was thinking about putting either twin turbo's on it, or a supercharger, and my question is, does anyone know where you can get these kinds of things cheaply, I most definitely do not want to pay 1000+ for this stuff, read somewhere about junk yards. Also, what all parts would I need to be pulling off the car if I did go to a junk yard?

 

[Highway Man]

What I have read

Alright, so recently I've been pondering cranking some extra ponies out of my cars engine (at least eventually), and I was thinking about putting either twin turbo's on it, or a supercharger, and my question is, does anyone know where you can get these kinds of things cheaply, I most definitely do not want to pay 1000+ for this stuff, read somewhere about junk yards. Also, what all parts would I need to be pulling off the car if I did go to a junk yard?

I don't have any experience with either turbos or superchargers but I will tell you what I have read about what you are planning to do. For the time and trouble of hooking up that kind of a setup the potential gain isn't worth the time, trouble, or money. I read an article where more bang for the buck could be obtained with a nitros oxide setup coupled with a good tune-up like air-flow items, spark plugs, exhaust, ect. Now I will humbly bow out of the way and let those with more experience than I render their advise/experiences. But whatever you do good luck and I hope it works out for you.

 

[boomdriver]

Alright, so recently I've been pondering cranking some extra ponies out of my cars engine (at least eventually), and I was thinking about putting either twin turbo's on it, or a supercharger, and my question is, does anyone know where you can get these kinds of things cheaply, I most definitely do not want to pay 1000+ for this stuff, read somewhere about junk yards. Also, what all parts would I need to be pulling off the car if I did go to a junk yard?

Rule of Thumb..

HP sells for about $1000 per 10

Turbos, chargers, blowers?

don;t forget the injectors, the exhaust system, air intake,port work, heads,engine mngt systems, inter-cooling and finally the tune of the completed mods.

$10K is a good starting point...

 

[aklim]

I most definitely do not want to pay 1000+ for this stuff,

Not happening. If you don't want to pay, don't play. Keep it stock. $1000 isn't going to get you far. My headers cost more than that as does my intake.

 

[93Rubie]

You want it cheap, fast, or reliable, pick two.
Just a thought but how fast do you want to go??? Determines, how much you gotta spend. Do you know how fast your stock car is??

Mine stock is faster than I can drive it, why would I add HP until I can drive what I got? Just a thought and my 2 cents worth.

 

[bartric]

@Highway Man, It takes a lot of time to hook up a turbo set up? With little potential gain? I thought that forced induction gave quite good gains... Nitrous oxide? This isn't purely for the strip, I do plan on running it a few times but I also want something that isn't expendable and I have at my disposal anytime a pony car thinks they have what it takes.

@Boomdriver, HP sells for $1k per 10 hp? That's quite over exaggerated if that's what you were meaning, because I can find chips that give over that for around $150. And $10k seems awefully excessive for just the basics of what I was asking about, heads, pistons, etc. will come later on a different budget, just looking about turbos at the moment.

@aklim, I know headers are expensive as are most other pieces of a performance engine, I'm not talking about my budget for the rest of the car, only forced induction pieces right now.

@93Rubie, How fast do I want to go? Well, 180 sounds like a good top speed to me, between 10-13 sec 1/4 mile would be nice. No idea how fast it is stock, just know it's supposedly pushing out 205 hp. I've yet to have a car faster than I can drive it. I've found my fair share of straight roads. I've always been able to drive what I have.

Like I mentioned before, I read on another forum that some guy bought some turbos from a junk yard for $90 each, and an intercooler for $10. I know that this is very cheap for both those parts as I've never seen a turbo under $1k.

I'm really wanting to get the car from 205 hp to 350-400 hp (close to the hp rating of the base C6 Corvettes). Also, how badly does forced induction hurt fuel mileage? I don't exactly want my car going 7 mpg. If all this is just practically impossible to get and still have about 15 mpg combined then I might just shoot for 300 hp (although I don't see how it'd be impossible since the 648 hp C6 Corvette still gets 19 city 28 highway [last time I checked]).

Anyway, thank you all for the replies, look forward to hearing more.

 

[aklim]

@Boomdriver, HP sells for $1k per 10 hp? That's quite over exaggerated if that's what you were meaning, because I can find chips that give over that for around $150. And $10k seems awefully excessive for just the basics of what I was asking about, heads, pistons, etc. will come later on a different budget, just looking about turbos at the moment.

@aklim, I know headers are expensive as are most other pieces of a performance engine, I'm not talking about my budget for the rest of the car, only forced induction pieces right now.

@93Rubie, How fast do I want to go? Well, 180 sounds like a good top speed to me, between 10-13 sec 1/4 mile would be nice. No idea how fast it is stock, just know it's supposedly pushing out 205 hp. I've yet to have a car faster than I can drive it. I've found my fair share of straight roads. I've always been able to drive what I have.

I'm really wanting to get the car from 205 hp to 350-400 hp (close to the hp rating of the base C6 Corvettes). Also, how badly does forced induction hurt fuel mileage? I don't exactly want my car going 7 mpg. If all this is just practically impossible to get and still have about 15 mpg combined then I might just shoot for 300 hp (although I don't see how it'd be impossible since the 648 hp C6 Corvette still gets 19 city 28 highway [last time I checked]).

Anyway, thank you all for the replies, look forward to hearing more.

They SAY they can. Different from delivering and under what conditions. Besides, what you are talking about is say the first 10HP. The more you want, the more expensive it gets and it averages about that in the long run. A turbo isn't that simple. You would need to have it intercooled so the plumbing is an issue, blow off valve, boost control, etc, etc. Also you need the engine tuned for that turbo. A dyno session is about $500 give or take.

OK. You pump air in but you also have to consider how you will get it out or it won't matter. I was giving you a basic comparison. Say you get your turbo for $200, what then? You probably want to send it out to get rebuilt. I would say a supercharger is cheaper to buy into initially.

I'm making 410 at the wheels. My mileage isn't too bad. About 15 give or take but it sure cost me more than $5000 to get there. Don't use C6 or C5 Vettes as a comparison. Their technology is much more advanced so things are different. You can make more power with less fuel used.

 

[warren s]

You got a better chance of hitting the lottery without buying a ticket than getting 350 to 400hp out of an 84 for less than a small fortune.

Even if you did get that kind of power out of an 84, the trans and rear end would not take it for long.

I would not go around telling the story about the $90 turbo and the $10 intercooler. Though I did get 5 bucks from the tooth fairy once though.

 

[aklim]

You got a better chance of hitting the lottery without buying a ticket than getting 350 to 400hp out of an 84 for less than a small fortune.

Even if you did get that kind of power out of an 84, the trans and rear end would not take it for long.

I would not go around telling the story about the $90 turbo and the $10 intercooler. Though I did get 5 bucks from the tooth fairy once though.

Whoops. I forgot about that. 84 is a crossfire. It's going to take a virgin sacrifice too. The cam will have to go if you want to put a turbo in it since it won't be anywhere close to optimum for the turbo. Have to get a dyno session, probably a totally different intake, etc, etc.

Trans will commit hari-kiri but would he have a D44 if he had a stick shift? That MIGHT hold without slicks but should probably be rebuilt because of the age.

Not sure what turbo he got since a good core would be more than that unless it is a cheap ass one that is broken.

 

[bartric]

@aklim, Alright, after hearing you all I think I might be looking more at just keeping it naturally aspirated. What would be a good HP range I should be looking at then? Supposing I put in a better cam, crank, pistons, heads exhaust, and various other stuff (not changing my crossfire!) what would I be looking at as far as power?

@warren s, Well, I don't agree with your first statement, I hardly see 400 hp from a crappily thrown together 205 hp engine hard to reach, even with a fairly small budget. I didn't quite think about the trans and rear end though, and you're definitely right. And my thoughts exactly on the turbo/intercooler story, I was just stating what I read.

 

[Toms007]

One of our members here had an 84 that he did quite a bit of work to. It ran pretty well...I rode in it and I think it would have been plenty for my 94 LT1. How much did he spend and what kind of power was he producing? I can't tell you, but maybe he'll check in here.

Geekinavette, Bill, are you out there?

 

[warren s]

@aklim, Alright, after hearing you all I think I might be looking more at just keeping it naturally aspirated. What would be a good HP range I should be looking at then? Supposing I put in a better cam, crank, pistons, heads exhaust, and various other stuff (not changing my crossfire!) what would I be looking at as far as power?

@warren s, Well, I don't agree with your first statement, I hardly see 400 hp from a crappily thrown together 205 hp engine hard to reach, even with a fairly small budget. I didn't quite think about the trans and rear end though, and you're definitely right. And my thoughts exactly on the turbo/intercooler story, I was just stating what I read.

I think you need to do alot of research. The crossfire unit is crap. Not matter what other componets you replace, the intake will not be up to the task. A small Holly will perform better for less money and complication.

400 hp from a 300 cubic inch V8 is no big shakes. But from a 84 crossfire engine it is. There is a limited amout of parts to choose from and many limiting factors.

Money and time wise, a crate motor would be a much better choice. Save the Crossfire motor if you ever sell the car.

 

[bartric]

I think you need to do alot of research. The crossfire unit is crap. Not matter what other componets you replace, the intake will not be up to the task. A small Holly will perform better for less money and complication.

400 hp from a 300 cubic inch V8 is no big shakes. But from a 84 crossfire engine it is. There is a limited amout of parts to choose from and many limiting factors.

Money and time wise, a crate motor would be a much better choice. Save the Crossfire motor if you ever sell the car.

NO NO NO! Ugh!, disgusting! I will not replace my Crossfire fuel injection system. And it's not crap, I've read about people testing the crossfire and said you only lost 25 hp compared to other tuned port injection on the motors they tested. If I have to I will have the thing ported put better jets on it, idk, I'll find something to make it better, but it's not going anywhere! Everyone laughs at it cause it's 'terrible', but it's only terrible to those who don't understand it and/or can't do anything with it.

Not to mention, in 20 years, when everyone has ditched their crossfire intakes and there are only a handful floating around, and the C4's have finally hit 'their time' in the big rush of antique automobiles, and people are looking for something closer to original/more unique, guess who is going to get more $$$, the one with the crossfire, or the one who thought they were smart and stuffed a carb on it?

 

[bartric]

And also, no one seems to be taking into account the terrible compression ratio put into the crossfire engine, I mean seriously? You blame the intake and it only has a 9:1 compression... I'm sure my mom's Altima has better compression than that, much less my Acura Legend, the 97 Camaro I use to own, both with V6's and both cranking out 200 hp, there is no way that 400 horsepower is unreachable just because the intake. Although, I don't think I'm going to shoot for 400 anymore.

Just looked it up, her Altima KA24DE (2.4L 150hp) has 9.5:1, my Acura C32A (3.2L 200hp) has 10:1, my Camaro's L36 (3.8L 200hp) has a 9.5:1, and these are V6's (Altima is I4), if I bump up the compression on that Vette to 10-10.5:1, there is no way I won't see a decent increase in hp.

Just my thoughts.

 

[warren s]

You can spend a ton of cash making a mule into a race horse if thats your thing.

20 years? C4s hitting their time? Unless your car is BONE stock and still running it wont be worth top dollar. You can just pull that engine and put it in storage. Really - what ever your smoking must be good stuff.

 

[bartric]

You can spend a ton of cash making a mule into a race horse if thats your thing.

20 years? C4s hitting their time? Unless your car is BONE stock and still running it wont be worth top dollar. You can just pull that engine and put it in storage. Really - what ever your smoking must be good stuff.

Well, considering I see non-'BONE stock' muscle cars all the time that are selling for $20k-$30k, I'm not sure that I believe that as well as I probably should. I do know that stock cars do sell for quite a bit, but I've seen built cars selling right up there next to them in price.

 

[bartric]

And calling it a 'mule' hurts my feelings. Thought you guys were supposed to be helpful, not discourage some one and make them seem like there a complete and total idiot. Isn't that what a forum is for... guess I came to the wrong place, you stick a man and their cars together in one place, this time a forum, and it all becomes an e-peen war, thanks for the help all...

 

[warren s]

You have no idea how much money they invested and its really no bearing on your project.

Good luck.

 

[warren s]

And calling it a 'mule' hurts my feelings. Thought you guys were supposed to be helpful, not discourage some one and make them seem like there a complete and total idiot. Isn't that what a forum is for... guess I came to the wrong place, you stick a man and their cars together in one place, this time a forum, and it all becomes an e-peen war, thanks for the help all...

Well it is a mule. Its a V8 powered Corvette that has less stright line performance than many 4 and 6 cyl grocery getters out there today. No one is making any judgements about your intellect. You started this thread about wanting to have 400hp out of an 84 Crossfire. Unless you have a money tree and you can just go pick a bunch of 100s of the branch anytime, its just not practical.

All I am saying is that you can spend less time and money and get better results by DOING RESEARCH.

 

[boomdriver]

You can spend a ton of cash making a mule into a race horse if thats your thing.

20 years? C4s hitting their time? Unless your car is BONE stock and still running it wont be worth top dollar. You can just pull that engine and put it in storage. Really - what ever your smoking must be good stuff.

Agreed..
the CF never will be a collectors classic worth fighting for. It was a "stop-gap" model with left over engines in a new chassis just to get the new generation in production while the TPI motor was being finished up and readied for the following year.

Unless its box-stock and only got 14,000 miles, its legacy is already defined in the Blu-Book...and it ain;t pretty.



You could install a "renegade" to add value and 150hp to the car !otfl