C5 Superchargers

[Jack R Lawson]

I'm an old fart with just enough technical knowledge to get the key in the ignition and turn it, that's about it. Was reading all the bolt on performance information and ended up totally confused, so I thought hell I'll just skip all that crap and get a supercharger. I started reading about superchargers, roots vs centrifical and some how came to the conclusion that centrifical was the way to go. I guess for a a pretty high class technical reason, I wouldn't need to replace the hood and try to find someone that could match that magnetic red paint. Anyway, I started reading about the centrifical choices and there are many, I looked at most of them then decided for what ever reason that ProCharger and Paxton was what I liked. That brings me to my question, my two choices look the same, for the most part do exactly the same thing in the same way so why does the Paxton cost $4500.00 more. I know there is a reason, what is it? Your help regarding this question and any other input you care to share would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Norman Clemmer]

I went with the roots blower, but if your going centrifical <paxton> I would recommend you go with East Coast Supercharging. I have run into a lot of people who used them and they have a good reputation and do things right.


http://www.eastcoastsupercharging.com/

 

[Jack R Lawson]

I'm an old fart with just enough technical knowledge to get the key in the ignition and turn it, that's about it. Was reading all the bolt on performance information and ended up totally confused, so I thought hell I'll just skip all that crap and get a supercharger. I started reading about superchargers, roots vs centrifical and some how came to the conclusion that
centrifical was the way to go. I guess for a a pretty high class technical reason, I wouldn't need to replace the hood and try to find someone that could match that magnetic red paint. Anyway, I started reading about the centrifical choices and there are many, I looked at most of them then decided for what ever reason that ProCharger and Paxton was what I liked. That brings me to my question, my two choices look the same, for the most part do exactly the same thing in the same way so why does the Paxton cost $4500.00 more. I know there is a reason, what is it? Your help regarding this question and any other input you care to share would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Paxton says their intention is to build the best blower head and kit regardless of cost. The propeller and shaft formed from a single piece of material vs all others who press the propeller onto the shaft seems to be the big differance. Is this a good reason to spend $4500.00 more. I don't know.

 

[Norman Clemmer]

Jack
I could be wrong, but I don't think a Paxton is $4,500 more. Chris at ECS could answer that question if you call him.

One other thought regarding a super charger...if you install a supercharger you want it tuned correctly...the other thing is once you have it you will never be satisfied with a stock vette again....supercharging my vette was the best move I made...I have had zero problems, burn no oil...its been a blast.

 

[Jack R Lawson]

Jack
I could be wrong, but I don't think a Paxton is $4,500 more. Chris at ECS could answer that question if you call him.

One other thought regarding a super charger...if you install a supercharger you want it tuned correctly...the other thing is once you have it you will never be satisfied with a stock vette again....supercharging my vette was the best move I made...I have had zero problems, burn no oil...its been a blast.

Norman: You could be right, you don't always know if you are comparing apples to apples. I saw a Paxton kit including intercooler for $11,334.00 from C.A.P.A. Performance, no installation. I think East Coast was quoting a ProCharger at $8500.00 to include installation and dyno testing. I think you are right I should call and get a little better number.

 

[Norman Clemmer]

Jack
I have a comment regarding your quote "I'm an old fart with just enough technical knowledge "...which is...Your are never old till you fart dust.

 

[Heavy Duty]

Both Todd Griffith and I have been thinking about doing the samething to our Zs. Both of us think that the ProCharger is the way to go since you don't have to drill a hole into the oil pan and ProCharger right now has the bragging rights about how much power you can get from their stage 2 kits. ProCharger claims that with just their stage 2 kit that 620 horses are easy to get. I know that Paxton was coming out with a new SC that is suppose to be better than the ProCharger. The price you stated may be for the new Paxton. Maybe someone else can chime in. I think Todd got us a real good deal (~$6200.00) on the ProCharger. We plan on doing the work ourselves and then have the cars tuned. We will see how that goes once the weather breaks up here.

If you will do a search on this site it wasn't long ago that we had a discussion on which SC was the best. Another place to check out the pros and cons on the different SCs is over on the Corvetteforums,com site. They have a great section on SCing vettes. There are many opinions.

Jack, i see that you are in Raleigh, NC. I spent 10 years there. I now have a place down near the beach. My sons are there now attending N.C. State. Look out for them cause they have a black '02 WS-6 that they take to the track a lot. It is hot and is putting out more horses then my z right now. Sad thing is they are spraying it to get the ponies. So i look for it not to last too long before they will have to do some major work to itotfl. The HP situation will soon change though. As soon as the weather breaks up here in the North, my buddy Todd and i will be SCing our rides. My plan is to keep mine conservative on the horses. I think Todd is going to get wild with his:L. Heck its wild right now.

Next time i am in Raleigh we will have to hook up.


H.D.

 

[Jack R Lawson]

Both Todd Griffith and I have been thinking about doing the samething to our Zs. Both of us think that the ProCharger is the way to go since you don't have to drill a hole into the oil pan and ProCharger right now has the bragging rights about how much power you can get from their stage 2 kits. ProCharger claims that with just their stage 2 kit that 620 horses are easy to get. I know that Paxton was coming out with a new SC that is suppose to be better than the ProCharger. The price you stated may be for the new Paxton. Maybe someone else can chime in. I think Todd got us a real good deal (~$6200.00) on the ProCharger. We plan on doing the work ourselves and then have the cars tuned. We will see how that goes once the weather breaks up here.

If you will do a search on this site it wasn't long ago that we had a discussion on which SC was the best. Another place to check out the pros and cons on the different SCs is over on the Corvetteforums,com site. They have a great section on SCing vettes. There are many opinions.

Jack, i see that you are in Raleigh, NC. I spent 10 years there. I now have a place down near the beach. My sons are there now attending N.C. State. Look out for them cause they have a black '02 WS-6 that they take to the track a lot. It is hot and is putting out more horses then my z right now. Sad thing is they are spraying it to get the ponies. So i look for it not to last too long before they will have to do some major work to itotfl. The HP situation will soon change though. As soon as the weather breaks up here in the North, my buddy Todd and i will be SCing our rides. My plan is to keep mine conservative on the horses. I think Todd is going to get wild with his:L. Heck its wild right now.

Next time i am in Raleigh we will have to hook up.


H.D.

HD: Wish I had your skills, I'll likely have trouble installing the Halltech SSM LS1 Intake hehe. You get to town give me a call, we can have lunch, dinner, a beer or something. Do you put your Vette up for the winter in Mass? Going to see if I can find those SC forums you refered. Jack

 

[Norman Clemmer]

"ProCharger claims that with just their stage 2 kit that 620 horses are easy to get"

That may be correct, but ask them with that amount of boost pressure how long they think the stock bottom end is going to last???
Norm

 

[mick_s3]

"ProCharger claims that with just their stage 2 kit that 620 horses are easy to get"

That may be correct, but ask them with that amount of boost pressure how long they think the stock bottom end is going to last???
Norm

Very good point.
:Lotfl

 

[Bioscache2]

I've heard that Procharger has had problems with belts slipping off and with their brackets.

 

[The Drakester]

I Second that.

I went with the roots blower, but if your going centrifical <paxton> I would recommend you go with East Coast Supercharging. I have run into a lot of people who used them and they have a good reputation and do things right.


http://www.eastcoastsupercharging.com/

I, too have an LPE Magnacharger and love it - no problems.

 

[Heavy Duty]

"ProCharger claims that with just their stage 2 kit that 620 horses are easy to get"

That may be correct, but ask them with that amount of boost pressure how long they think the stock bottom end is going to last???
Norm

I think they advertised that claim with 8 pounds of boost. I'll have to check tonight when I get home. I do agree though that much over 8 pounds of boost and you can look for the bottom end letting you know that you forgot about itotfl. But we all know that aftermarket guys will tell you anything to get you to buy their produce......Right? The down side is that when S**t happens they suddenly disappear leaving you to fend for yourself. I guess that is the reason for the saying "You play. you pay".

I am still researching like crazy the pros and cons of SCing a stock motor. That very question was asked over on the corvette forums and so far it is about 50/50. The biggest con is the cost of purchasing a SC and the risk you take when you install it onto a stock motor. From what I gather is that if you SC a stock motor and keep the boost and tuning conservative, and don't keep your foot in it all of the time, then you can expect the engine to last a while. The other con is that on some units the manf recommends a rebuild of the head unit once a year. I don't know about you, but to pay 6 - 8 grand for an SC, go though the pain of putting it on the engine, and then a year later having to remove the thing and send it off for a rebuild would tend to spoil my party a little bit. The pros are the insane horse power increases and the boost is there when you want it.

An alternative to SCing is to Turbo Charge. I know that there are several companies working on TC kits for the vettes. That might be a better way to go if the price is resonable. But there are problems associated with the TC method of forced induction as well. On diesel engines when you TC you have to pay real close attention to EGTs or risk melting the pistons. I don't know if that is the case on gasoline engines. On my Dodge Cummins anything over 1200 degrees for 15 seconds can cause some serious engine problems quick. Also with high boost TCs you have to use piston coolers to help the pistons stay cool with the high combustion temps. But then again diesel does have high combustion temps. The other con is that boost doesn't come until the TC spools-up. So boost isn't available right now when you mash the go-pedal. The good thing about TCs is that the engine doesn't drive the unit (exhaust gases do) therefore there isn't any parasitic HP loss.

Hey Jack, i work up here in Boston. I try to get home once everyother month. The vette is tucked away for the winter at the house down in N.C. If the weather is nice during the winter i'll take it for a cruse down to the OBX. We will have to get togather next time I'm in Raleigh. Lunch sounds great. Haven't had any decent Carolina BBQ in a while. Are you going to go to Carlisle this year? If so maybe we can get togather and convoy down. There my be a couple of us convoying this year. Carlisle is a great time and great place to meet some of the other CACers.

Hey you guys keep the info coming about SCing. I still sitting on the fence.


H.D.

 

[Bioscache2]

I've heard good things about East Coast Supercharging as well and have heard amazing things about Andy at AA Corvettes (hes on the West Coast). Even if you can't go with him due to distance check out his website www.aacorvette.com and drop him a line. He's an enthusiast as well as an aftermarket guy and I have heard him go to great lengths for customers or just people looking for advice.

 

[Heavy Duty]

I've heard that Procharger has had problems with belts slipping off and with their brackets.

Yep. Read that too.

The other problems I've heard is that they love to eat belts. ProCharger claims that is because the pulley hasn't been aligned properly. I think ECS uses a laser to align the pulleys. ECS and Andy out on the west cost have come up with their own brackets for the proCharger. I can say that Andy had a really bad time with the company that makes ProCharger. I think that flap was about the shoddy brackets they have in their kits. That incident alone has me thinking right seriously about not going the ProCharger route. So like i said, i want to SC but I am still sitting on the fence waiting to see which unit is the best on the market. If I am going to pay the big bucks I want to know that I've got the best.


H.D.

 

[Jack R Lawson]

I think they advertised that claim with 8 pounds of boost. I'll have to check tonight when I get home. I do agree though that much over 8 pounds of boost and you can look for the bottom end letting you know that you forgot about itotfl. But we all know that aftermarket guys will tell you anything to get you to buy their produce......Right? The down side is that when S**t happens they suddenly disappear leaving you to fend for yourself. I guess that is the reason for the saying "You play. you pay".

I am still researching like crazy the pros and cons of SCing a stock motor. That very question was asked over on the corvette forums and so far it is about 50/50. The biggest con is the cost of purchasing a SC and the risk you take when you install it onto a stock motor. From what I gather is that if you SC a stock motor and keep the boost and tuning conservative, and don't keep your foot in it all of the time, then you can expect the engine to last a while. The other con is that on some units the manf recommends a rebuild of the head unit once a year. I don't know about you, but to pay 6 - 8 grand for an SC, go though the pain of putting it on the engine, and then a year later having to remove the thing and send it off for a rebuild would tend to spoil my party a little bit. The pros are the insane horse power increases and the boost is there when you want it.

An alternative to SCing is to Turbo Charge. I know that there are several companies working on TC kits for the vettes. That might be a better way to go if the price is resonable. But there are problems associated with the TC method of forced induction as well. On diesel engines when you TC you have to pay real close attention to EGTs or risk melting the pistons. I don't know if that is the case on gasoline engines. On my Dodge Cummins anything over 1200 degrees for 15 seconds can cause some serious engine problems quick. Also with high boost TCs you have to use piston coolers to help the pistons stay cool with the high combustion temps. But then again diesel does have high combustion temps. The other con is that boost doesn't come until the TC spools-up. So boost isn't available right now when you mash the go-pedal. The good thing about TCs is that the engine doesn't drive the unit (exhaust gases do) therefore there isn't any parasitic HP loss.

Hey Jack, i work up here in Boston. I try to get home once everyother month. The vette is tucked away for the winter at the house down in N.C. If the weather is nice during the winter i'll take it for a cruse down to the OBX. We will have to get togather next time I'm in Raleigh. Lunch sounds great. Haven't had any decent Carolina BBQ in a while. Are you going to go to Carlisle this year? If so maybe we can get togather and convoy down. There my be a couple of us convoying this year. Carlisle is a great time and great place to meet some of the other CACers.

Hey you guys keep the info coming about SCing. I still sitting on the fence.


H.D.

HD: I've never attended a big Corvette show and think I would really enjoy the trip, are you considering the April 19th show or the August 25th show, is one better than the other or are you going to both? My email is jackrnecia@msn.com drop me a line any time. JRL

 

[powderski13]

I would highly recommend Andy Green at A&A Corvettes or East Coast Supercharging for any supercharger kit and/or install. The original ATI kits were garbage..poor brackets, poor pully bearings, belt alignment, overheating, very poor customer service, etc. Both A&A & ECS redesigned the brackets, air filter location, and pully set-ups and got both better power and much better reliability. The new "redesigned" ATI stage II kit is just taking Andy's & ECS improvements and designs. No issues with 500 rwhp on a stock bottom end with good tuning. I certainly enjoy mine!!

 

[Jack R Lawson]

http://www.carreview.com/cat/parts/forced-induction/superchargers/Paxton/PRD_2191_2877crx.aspx#reviews

HD: I was reading the above reviews and they really turned me off my SCing kick. I am continuing to research but it seems you find a lot of unhappy users. Most of these seem to be self installed, I wonder if the secret is professional installations. I would really be upset to lay out $8995.00 to ECS for an upgrade that don't do exactly as advertise and worse yet cause addition expense not to mention down time.

 

[Heavy Duty]

http://www.carreview.com/cat/parts/forced-induction/superchargers/Paxton/PRD_2191_2877crx.aspx#reviews

HD: I was reading the above reviews and they really turned me off my SCing kick. I am continuing to research but it seems you find a lot of unhappy users. Most of these seem to be self installed, I wonder if the secret is professional installations. I would really be upset to lay out $8995.00 to ECS for an upgrade that don't do exactly as advertise and worse yet cause addition expense not to mention down time.

My concerns as well and yes I have been considering having the work done. But I am still researching the pros and cons. When i was in the Navy I worked on jet engines. But we had the right tools, equipment, and manuals to do the work with. In addtion if we ran into a snag we had tech reps who we could ask questions. These newer cars with all of the electronic stuff, not to mention the confind space under the hood, just don't do well when you start monkeying around with them. I know i could do the installation. But if I run into a problem I am left more or less on my own to figure the problems out.

Hey I sent you a PM about Carlisle.



H.D.

 

[MMM]

I too have been interested in supercharging my '02 Z06 and have been following this and the previous threads. I personally would prefer to have a roots type blower (Magnacharger) for reliability and low speed efficiency. BUT, I don't want to install the high rise hood required for clearance. Nor do I want a turbo. So I am left with a centrifugal supercharger. So I will probably go with the A & A Corvettes version of the Procharger.
I will probably not do anything until Fall '06 and I pay NCSU for my daughter's senior year. I plan