C6 Interior Features and Amenities

[Edmond]

Re: In reference to shifting...

don't have time when going from 0-200mph in 6 seconds doesn't appear to be something the average Corvette buyer will ever have to worry about...at least not until perhaps the 100th anniversery edition.

Yeah right! Did you see what they did for the 50th?:L :L :L

Seriously though, I think why so many performance enthusiasts want that paddle style/clutchless shifter is because its faster. Faster for drag and street (not advisable BTW) racing. Plus, the more things that you're trying to do at a faster rate, the more likely you'll mess up. If anyone in here has claimed to never missed a shift, they're lying. We've all missed shifts and having a clutchless shifter would alleviate some of that problem.

I remember we did a study years ago for a psychology class about reactions. Seems like the closer the body part is to your brain, the faster it can react, ie. your eyes blink so fast but you kick a ball somewhat slow. It also has to do with physics, the mass of the object you have to move. I think all of us can move our hands faster than our feet.

 

[LT1Vettepilot]

I agree most people can move their hands faster than their feet. However why give steering to both hands, up shifting with one hand and down shifting with the other. If you want to use the "its faster" argument, that only holds water in drag racing where you are only going in a straight line and shifting in only one direction. Try a really twisty road where you are up shifting and down shifting repetively and your hands will get confused. Not to mention a skilled driver will know what gear he/she is in just by feeling where the stick is. With a paddle shifter you're taking your eyes off the road to figure out where your transmission is at. Granted with HUD technology the gear can be displayed in line of sight. However I've driver a HUD equiped car and you still have to change your focus to see the smaller items in the display. With a traditional manual transmission, you still have one hand doing nothing but steering, one hand does nothing but shifting and can also be utilized for steering when neccesary, one foot operating gas/brake and one on the clutch. Just makes more sense to me. Not to mention...electronically controlled manual, with servo actuated clutch? Come one...you're asking for something to go wrong that will either strand you some place because you can't get the transmission into or out of gear, or even worse an incorrect gear selection at 100+ mph...say it drops to second. With a manual, your hand knows where it is going and chances of shifting from 6th to second at 100+ when down shifting are slim, a paddle shifter while your adrenaline is rushing and you hit it one to many times...empty your wallet and credit cards on the service counter please. Leave an arm and leg on your way out. At least with mechanical shift linkage, if you break it...you can still limp her home (still expensive, but it wouldn't be nearly as bad as all electronic).
The funny thing about all this is...I'm from the younger, computer controlled generation and I'm sitting here preaching for the old school! I can't tune a carburator to save my life...give me the efficiency of a computer controlled engine. Those I understand. I have to draw the line at the electronic transmission though. It takes all the fun out of driving. Which seems to be the biggest point. Society seems to want the electronic highway, electronic saftey, automatic cars that do the driving for you. I don't want to be a passenger in life, I want to be the driver.
:cool

 

[Edmond]

I can't tune a carburator to save my life...:cool

They still have those?:L :L :L

 

[Trance_LT4]

Maybe its belonging to the video game generation, but my hands don't get confused using a paddle shifter on a road course. Its a heck of alot easier than removing a hand from the steering wheel to move down and work the shift lever. I see no advantage of a stick shift system over a semiautomatic. Especially when the computer automatically blips the throttle for you when downshifting into a corner. No tap dancing the sometimes awekward procedure of "heel toe" braking. As far as more things to go wrong, how many shifts do the cars equipped with these transmissions do during a 24 hour race? I have more of a chance of breaking something/burning out the clutch than the computer. I just think this technology is alot more efficient, and once you get used to using it, you can be a more efficient (read fast and consistent) driver with it.

 

[twiget]

I dont think onstar, or any other system like it has any place in a sports car like the Corvette. Though, I'm sure GM will disagree with me, and make it avalible (though hopefully not standard). I for one feel the whole Onstar system is too close to the whole "Big Brother", 1984 concept. If it, or any system simmilar is ever on a vehicle I purchace, I will give serious thought to disabling it.

As for the interior of the C6, I would like to see something other than plastic. I'm not too sure how a wood finish would fit in a high performance sports car like the Corvette. However, I think carbon fiber fit's the bill perfectly. And perhaps, higher quailty leather for the seats. I'd also like an extra inch of head room. As it is, I had to remove the support straps under the seat of my GS in order to sit comfortably. It still only leaves me with about 1/2 inch head room, which is not enough on some roads.

Jason

 

[LT1Vettepilot]

Maybe its belonging to the video game generation, but my hands don't get confused using a paddle shifter on a road course. Its a heck of alot easier than removing a hand from the steering wheel to move down and work the shift lever. I see no advantage of a stick shift system over a semiautomatic. Especially when the computer automatically blips the throttle for you when downshifting into a corner. No tap dancing the sometimes awekward procedure of "heel toe" braking. As far as more things to go wrong, how many shifts do the cars equipped with these transmissions do during a 24 hour race? I have more of a chance of breaking something/burning out the clutch than the computer. I just think this technology is alot more efficient, and once you get used to using it, you can be a more efficient (read fast and consistent) driver with it.

In other words...no skill required.
That is what I'm talking about when it comes to driving. I'm in it for the experience of driving...not just mearly pointing the car where I want to go. Yes, I fully understand there is more than just shifting when it comes to skill requirement, but the more responsibility you take away from the driver, the less involved in the experience you become.
Example...I was working on my private pilots license many years ago. The plane we used was extremely simple. Very little was NOT done by the pilot. I am now an aircraft engine mechanic. We have aircrews that refuse to fly if simple things, that used to be the pilots job and now are computer controlled, don't work. All of our aircraft used to have sextants in them. Reason, incase the navigation system failed, the Navigators could still get you home. They were probably still there because someone like me believed they should be there, just in case. Well they have all been removed now, our navigators are no longer trained on how to use them, and if the nav system fails (which they do frequently) the plane doesn't fly.
where is the fun in driving if you all you do is push a button. It goes from being an experience in life to being nothing more than a video game.

 

[Trance_LT4]

Ok, if more involvement is what you desire, do you wish for them to take away all the traction control, active handling, electromagnetic suspension, ect ect ect.........Why don't you just buy an OLD car?

 

[LT1Vettepilot]

Ok, if more involvement is what you desire, do you wish for them to take away all the traction control, active handling, electromagnetic suspension, ect ect ect.........Why don't you just buy an OLD car?

Actually I'm looking at finding an old car to play with...but I don't care much for the older Vettes...except for the C1s and if I had a C1 it would be a garage queen. So I'm looking for a 68 Camaro or same gen Firebird to play with.
As for taking away the other stuff...as long as there is an off switch, I don't mind it. I realize there is alot of safety improvement with such system. HOWEVER, when I am out playing with my vette, the traction control gets turned off (as long as the roads aren't slick) and the ride control gets switched to the firmest setting.
On a side note, I haven't had a chance to ride in a new vette with the magnetic ride control, I would imagine it would not take much if anything away from the driving experience. As a daily driver, I do admit that it is nice to soften the suspension up a little. As for traction control and active handling. Great ideas, especially for those of us who use our vettes as daily drivers. As I said though...they need an off switch, and the 2002 active handling with the competition mode is a great in between system for when you want to play but don't want to take too big of a risk of wrapping such an expensive toy around a tree.
Unlike these features though, a paddle style shifter doesn't have an off switch. You can't decide one day that you want to play and flip a switch to have a stick shift and the next day while stuck in rush hour traffic use the paddle shifters.

 

[MsSchroder]

don't hate me because I love a manual

Try a really twisty road where you are up shifting and down shifting repetively and your hands will get confused. Not to mention a skilled driver will know what gear he/she is in just by feeling where the stick is. With a paddle shifter you're taking your eyes off the road to figure out where your transmission is at. ...
With a manual, your hand knows where it is going and chances of shifting from 6th to second at 100+ when down shifting are slim,...
. I have to draw the line at the electronic transmission though. It takes all the fun out of driving. Which seems to be the biggest point. Society seems to want the electronic highway, electronic saftey, automatic cars that do the driving for you. I don't want to be a passenger in life, I want to be the driver.
:cool

AMEN!
I have no experience with the F1-style computerized manual shifters, but I believe they would be very fast and useful for racing... not to mention ultra cool... and ultra expensive. I'm wondering how you would get confused and have to look down- isn't there 1 button for upshift and 1 button for down?
But for daily driving: I agree with LT1Vettepilot- a manual transmission certainly allows you to be more "as one" with your car. I never have to look at the shifter to figure out what gear I'm in... and I don't even think about what gear I want when I shift. I just know ... I guess based on the position of the shifter.
I've never owned anything other than manual transmission cars , even my very first, a 1980 Chevette!! LOL. (with the exception of my minivan beater-mobile that I bought this year; if they made minivans with manuals, believe me, I'd have gotten one!) If the automatic had been an option on my vette, I would not have bought it even if the car was only $15K... the thought of an automatic on a z06 just leaves me cold. OK, the thought of an automatic on any car just leaves me cold. but that's just me.
I can understand there are people who prefer autos, for health reasons or traffic issues. There's nothing wrong with it, its just not for me...

As for the active handling and traction control.... you can turn those off! (I don't know about the electromagnetic suspension.)

 

[Edmond]

I think what Trance is saying is that while everything else in the world changes and goes forward, so should the automotive technology. Why should the Corvette leave old technology behind just because it's a sports car? It shouldn't because if it did leave all this new technology behind, we would have no:

active handling
HUD
air conditioning
runflats
air bags
etc...

Even the Corvette has to undergo changes to stay competitive.

 

[LT1Vettepilot]

Moving forward with technology is good, I agree 100%. However there are certain areas that should still be left up to the consumer/operator/driver/individual, etc...With the advent of new technology there are always those that not only accept with open arms, but jump at the opportunity before it is fully tested, and there are those that are just plain stubborn and refuse to evolve. Of course there are those in between as well. I'm one of those in the middle of the road, but I tend to lean towards new technology. There comes a point where regardless of how good the technology is, we need to step back and say "do we need this or want this, or are we doing it just because we can?" At that point, when looking at a product sold to a mass population, especially a sports car in the USA where a vehicle becomes a person's identity, there should be choices and limits to where the technology goes. For safety reasons, I agree the traction control, air bags, and active handling should be standard. The HUD is a luxury item, for now, and therefore a consumer can just say no. The other safety features can be turned off (with exception to the driver's air bag of course) still leaving the choice to the consumer. If a paddle shift system was availabe on Corvette, I'm sure it would sell extremely well...because automatics sell extremely well (which completely just blows my mind...ITS A SPORTS CAR PEOPLE!!!) Individuals looking at an automatic because they either don't like to shift, don't want to shift, or sit in rush hour traffic and now have a left calf twice the size of their right, may opt for the manu-matic paddle shifter. While those of us who still enjoy, or have the opportunity to enjoy driving will still opt for the traditional stick shift.
While we are discussing saftey in all this...if they take one more thing away from me that I need to be doing while I drive, I swear I'm going to fall asleep out of boredom on the highway. The NTSB has historically preached "speed kills" Well I somewhat agree...its the SLOW speed on the open free ways that kills. It numbs the mind and boredom sets in (traditionally labeled tunnel vision). At higher speeds, you are less likely to fall asleep and there are fewer accidents (Yes, this has been proven, I just don't recall at the moment where I found the information)
As cars become more sophisticated, there is less and less for the "driver" to do. Essentially becomeing nothing more than a passenger with some input to the direction of travel. At this point, all the "saftey features" become a hazard. This all leads back to, let me and my gear head cohorts keep our standard hand operated transmission with foot operated clutch. It keeps us entertained, keeps our minds awake, and keeps us safe. (When all else fails...preach saftey...someone is bound to agree! :L )

 

[Dad]

Is this that shabby old interior you're talking about??

http://www.westohiocorvettes.com/

I shifted those "sport" cars for well over 40 years and I now welcome the lowly automatic which will kick your's more than you will admit.

:eyerole :t

 

[Trance_LT4]

The only good automatics are the built ones people use for drag cars that are took quick to be bothered with manual transmissions. Otherwise slush boxes are for the grocery getters. A Z06 aint a grocery getter, hence.....no slush box.

 

[Dad]

I think not

Narrow minded thinking and not very true. People tend to drive what fits their needs, not someone's thoughts on what they should drive. Again, bring it on or hang it up.

 

[Trance_LT4]

Drive what fits your needs, but GM says you don't need an automatic in a Z06

 

[JBsC5]

PERFORMANCE W/ 50 MILLESECOND SHIFTS

a completely new transmission
that uses two clutches for swift changes. The six-speed Direct Shift Gearbox
(DSG) transmission is said to combine all the benefits of a conventional
six-speed manual gearbox with the qualities of a modern automatic. Audi claims it
gives enormous agility, driving enjoyment and economy as well as convenient
operation and smooth acceleration with uninterrupted traction.


The revolutionary transmission is actually based on a six-speed manual
gearbox, but thanks to the use of an integrated twin multi-plate clutch with an
ingenious control system, two gears can be engaged at the same time. During
normal running, one gear is engaged, but when the next gearshift point is
approached, the appropriate gear is pre-selected but its clutch is kept
disengaged. The gearshift process disengages the clutch of the activated gear and
engages the other clutch at the same moment. The gear change takes place under
load, with the result that a permanent flow of power is maintained.
The control logic integrated into the transmission maintains optimum
gearshift strategies that perform lightning-fast gearshifts that are, according to
Audi, nevertheless smooth and almost jolt-free. The driver can shift by means
of the gear lever in the manual gate or the standard-fit shift paddles on
the steering wheel.
As on conventional manual gearboxes, the transmission ratios are present on
input and auxiliary shafts in the form of pairs of toothed wheels. In
contrast to manual gearboxes, the input shaft is divided into two sections. It
comprises an outer hollow shaft, and an inner shaft. The first, third, fifth
gears and reverse are located on the inner shaft. The hollow shaft handles the
even-numbered gears. Each of these shafts is selected by means of a separate
multi-plate clutch running in oil. The two electronically controlled,
hydraulically actuated clutches are packed inside each other for maximum space
economy.
As well as their high efficiency and ability to transmit high torque,
clutches of this type permit a wide range of starting characteristics. The
multi-plate clutch can be controlled in such a way that every form of moving off is
possible, from an ultra-gentle edging along on a slippery surface to
sports-style acceleration at full throttle.
Audi claims the gearshifts feel “spontaneous and decisive, as if executed
at the push of a button.” An electronic-control throttle blip feature in
manual and Sport modes reinforces the impression of ultra-dynamic gearshifts.

 

[JBsC5]

Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, as well as the 1 million dollar Bugati with 1001 hp..

They put this new technology together because it just works better than any human is capable of.

Corvette in the C6 high performance version will be more apt to put out the reported 550hp that the new engine is capable of if..the engineers can meet the fuel economy and emissions requirements of our government..

This new transmission technology will allow the engineers to more easily meet those requirements and give us..as much power at the same time..

Just imagine full throttle upshifts and perfectly timed downshifts as an added bonus!

No lifting of the throttle is necessary during each shift..

That alone is worth the price of admission to a manual transmission....that has a computerized clutch..

In this case..and in all future iterations..dual clutches for symotaniously (sp) releasing one clutch and activating another..

50 millisecond shifts..

 

[Edmond]

They put this new technology together because it just works better than any human is capable of.

Exactly!

 

[Dad]

Back to the original question

I have 3 standard shift and 2 with automatics each has a different job to do. That was when they were built that is, now the 3 standard shifts are for show only.

If I were given the chance to build the Corvette the way I wanted it I wonder how many people would buy it. That is the problem with GM; those darn buggers want a car that will sell enough to make a profit.

Mine would have an engine that would twist today’s hydro formed frames, smoke the 12 inch wide tires on the back and lift the 10 inch tires on the front, clear the 1/4 mile in 6 to 8 seconds. No radio, no heater, no active anything, no ABS, just a fuel injected, (computer controlled of course), honker that makes you wear ear plugs and change your pants. A rock crusher 4 speed and clutch setup that will take a 10 grand launch. That is its job, on a sanctioned track, on the weekend.

But wait, I want to run the road course, so I need to make the tires fit that job and setup the frame and suspension a little different. Would need to be a little lighter and more agile. May have to go to a 6 speed to get a better gear selection in the turns. Throw out the radio and the extra seat, no spare or luggage space required, now I got the perfect car.

What? I need to go to the folks this weekend, what will I drive with the wife, (don't have one of those), along. She wants what, heat, air, music, and dry during the rain. OK, this is getting serious now, lets build something that I can use and enjoy, how about a C5 automatic? The others will have to sit in the garage until the weekend that we can go back to racing. I guess if you can't afford the car that is built to do the job at hand you can compromise and get something that halfway does the job, and race it on the streets. Then there are those that race on sanctioned tracks and don't need the stick shift to show anybody anything while they are on the street.

In other words, we all have our likes and dislikes but that’s no reason to knock someone’s choice to drive an automatic, or anything else for that matter. Most of us are here because of our love for the Corvette, after having owned at least one of every generation, first 8 were sticks, and driving about 2 million miles in 45 years, I will say that the C5 is without question the finest machine I've ever driven. I feel cheated by GM on the 50th but it's done and over with, so lets look ahead and enjoy what they did give us. Will we get what we would like in the C6? Yes, and no, some will, some won't, will we be happy, again, yes and no. Will we buy them? You bet, and then we'll start adding on the after market dodads to make them run like we think we want them to.

Ain't life grand??

 

[Edmond]

Not to mention that some persons with a physical disability may not be able to constantly use that clutch pedal, but they want high performance.