California Politicians WANT YOUR CAR!!

[chevyaddict]

Sorry chevy addict but i live my lifre one day at a time. in 100 years o wont be around and as a matter of fact im going to enjoy life driving my nice 1966 impala around which features NO cats. DOnt think youll have a problem arnold likes hummers. :L

Yea, its tough.... this is what I study in school; conservation behavior. Humans are very egocentric (when considering them as a collective whole). There are only a few who are truly altruistic and/or who have values such that respect the environment and all that lives within it. These folks certainly aren't the norm (at least in Western/industrial societies). The human species thinks for itself and although there are a few other species that behave similarly, we are essentially the anomaly on this planet. Most species live in equilibrium with their environment. You'd think though, with our massive brains and all this logical ability, rationality and empathy that it should be entirely opposite. Funny that way, isn't it?:eyerole

 

[photovette]

Yea, its tough.... this is what I study in school; conservation behavior. Humans are very egocentric (when considering them as a collective whole). There are only a few who are truly altruistic and/or who have values such that respect the environment and all that lives within it. These folks certainly aren't the norm (at least in Western/industrial societies). The human species thinks for itself and although there are a few other species that behave similarly, we are essentially the anomaly on this planet. Most species live in equilibrium with their environment. You'd think though, with our massive brains and all this logical ability, rationality and empathy that it should be entirely opposite. Funny that way, isn't it?:eyerole

Most species live in equalibrium with their environment because their environment constrains them. I doubt there is any species on earth which would not propagate without limit if those constaints were lifted. Your assumption, though well meant, is is spurious in that it does not take into account the reasons for the equalibrium. It is my thought that the human problem on this planet is one of quantity instead of quality.

 

[Ken]

... the human problem on this planet is one of quantity instead of quality.

Yep! Too many people. Kill 'em all and let (insert your higher power here) sort 'em out! :L

 

[chevyaddict]

Most species live in equalibrium with their environment because their environment constrains them. I doubt there is any species on earth which would not propagate without limit if those constaints were lifted. Your assumption, though well meant, is is spurious in that it does not take into account the reasons for the equalibrium. It is my thought that the human problem on this planet is one of quantity instead of quality.

Its difficult to discuss such things because there are millions of species. What you have stated is true for some and untrue for others. It also depends on what you call "the environment". This is a very complex situation. I wouldn't say what I stated is spurious..... it just needs to be discussed within various contexts.
Cheers

 

[Larry's Yellow Rdstr]

Dawn,

Get back to your comparative religions class. This, unless I am mistaken, is not a philosophy seminar.

 

[chevyaddict]

Oooooo; touchy touchy! However, I do agree that this particular venue is not the place to discuss such things. It is interesting how these threads take on these "alternative personas" isn't it! I'll refrain from further comments on my conservation items herein. If, however, anyone is up for further discussion email me privately and perhaps we can continue!

Lighten up a bit there, Larry! Sheesh!!

 

[motorman]

Those of you in who've been maybe a little distracted by the Presidential contest, the Scott Peterson double-murder trial and the liberals few attempts as giving illegal aliens driver licenses need to be aware of another big problem on the horizon for Corvette owners who live in California have 1976 or later cars.

First, you may ask why, if you don't live in CA, this should be of interest? Well, most states with liberal/environmentalist lobbies which control motor vehicle legislation pattern their exhaust emissions regulation after California so, what happens in that state is what might happen in other states so all owners of older Corvette need to take notice.

The liberals and other politicians looking for "cover" from environmentalists have just about succeeded in repealing California's rolling, 30-year exemption from it's emissions controls inspection and maintenance program called "Smog check"

You recall, the liberal, anti-car-hobby factions in CA tried to to this last year, but were defeated on the floor of the legislature by pro-car-hobby organizations and voters. This new attempt is with a slightly different bill and, this time, had the support of business interests (including General Motors).

If signed into law, Assembly Bill (AB) 2683 requires the following:

1. Require vehicles of the post 1975 model year, even if insured as
collector cars (driven only to parades, exhibitions, etc.), and at least
35-years old to continue in the Smog Check program for the duration of the
vehicle's life.

2. Revise the Smog Check testing regimen for these qualifying
vehicles to include a tailpipe test, functional inspection of the fuel cap
and a visual inspection for liquid fuel leaks. The vehicle would be forced
to comply with the exhaust emissions standards for the vehicle's class and
model year as prescribed by California regulators.

The bottom line is AB 2683 has passed the California Senate and the Assembly and is headed for the Governor's desk for signature.

Now, before you think, "No problem. Schwarzenegger will veto it", know this. Arnold Schwarzenegger is a fiscal conservative but a social moderate. There is no evidence that he supports pro car hobby legislation on conservative principles.

If you own a 1976 or later car and you don't like the idea of loosing the existing 30-year rolling exemption from the smog check, call or FAX the Governor's office, now!!

The Governor may be reached at:
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-445-4633

Also, know that this bill is another of the State government's underhanded attempts at forcing old cars off the road. This bill will be the kiss-of-death for cars after 1980 because they depend on engine controls for emissions compliance and many parts of their emissions controls are discontinued. Confronted with the 76-up smog check and no way to repair the vehicle, many people will be forced to sell or scrap their Corvettes.

The truth remains the same:

* California's current law recognizes the minimal impact of vehicles
30-years old and older on vehicle emissions and air quality.

* Vehicles 30-years old and older still constitute a minuscule portion
of the overall vehicle population and are a poor source from which to look
for emissions reduction.

* Antique and classic vehicles are overwhelmingly well-maintained and
infrequently driven (a fraction of the miles each year as a new vehicle).

* Legislators, regulators and stationary source polluters are feeling
the heat from a failed effort to meet air quality goals and are looking for
a convenient scapegoat, using false data and inflated annual mileage
assumptions to further their case. The old car hobby should not carry the
burden of their mistakes!

with calif being the car capital of the world how do the anti car people get elected,i bet the car people do not vote,correct

 

[Larry's Yellow Rdstr]

E-mail to Gov.

Yesterday I took 5 minutes and sent an e-mail to the governor's office regarding my opposition to the pending bill. If the members of this forums would do the same, or write a short letter maybe we will get an sympathetic audience.

PS. Dawn I love you.

Larry

 

[chevyaddict]

Yesterday I took 5 minutes and sent an e-mail to the governor's office regarding my opposition to the pending bill. If the members of this forums would do the same, or write a short letter maybe we will get an sympathetic audience.

:cry :nono :duh

PS. Dawn I love you.

 

[80convertible]

I guess I could always start an illegal business selling pre 76 vin numbers and plates. Then you guys could register your newer C3's as 68,69 and 70's. Seriously, as a person who has suffered from asthma and has a 5 year old with asthma, I do take the environment seriously. However, being in sales I have spent many a miles on the road. I would like to see a comparison of emissions by class between cars that are 25 years old and commecial trucks. How many times have I had to engage the recycled a/c button because the outside air is foul due to a truck belching black smoke out the exhaust. Are commercial trucks required to pass emissions each year?

 

[Ken]

The local news here just had a story on how Jay Leno is more than a little upset about this, and I guess he's already been on the phone with Arnie's office. A spokesperson for the governor's office said that by the end of the conversation, Jay had calmed down somewhat. I guess he was pretty vocal when he first got them on the phone. :L

 

[72LT-ONE]

Ab 2683

If anyone is interested you can go to the Governers web page, select "E-mail The Governer" select, HTTP:\\www.govmail.ca.gov. Once there enter the necessary information, select Air Pollution: Smog Check\ AB02683 (from the pull down menu) select OPPOSE!!! If you wish you may also voice your opinion, there is a box for text messages.

Later......

M

 

[srthom13]

It is unfortunate that many of our laws have been spawned from special interest groups with their own private agenda in mind. It all boils down to money, politics, power and votes. I am very sympathic and concerned about the enviromental issues, however, is there any truth in what they are preaching or is it just a way to get us to succumb? Wait and see, it is going to be " all about the money ". Vintage car owners in California are going to be paying more for registrations, insurance and pollution testing. And quess what, they will be happy to pay it just for the right to keep their vehicle. Once the monies start rolling in the pollution problem will be solved. What next, catalytic converters and a smog test for our lawn mowers ? Wait a minute, hasn't that been tried already. By the way, can anyone explain to me when this global warming nonsense "they" are preaching about is going to happen. The last two winters here on Long Island have been the coldest and longest in many years - what gives. Maybe this ozone layer idea is just another special interest/private agenda scare to get us to use R13 instead of R12. I wonder if the manufacturers of R13 have any ties to the special interest groups. My 2 cents -- Steve

 

[PigPen]

I guess I could always start an illegal business selling pre 76 vin numbers and plates. Then you guys could register your newer C3's as 68,69 and 70's. Seriously, as a person who has suffered from asthma and has a 5 year old with asthma, I do take the environment seriously. However, being in sales I have spent many a miles on the road. I would like to see a comparison of emissions by class between cars that are 25 years old and commecial trucks. How many times have I had to engage the recycled a/c button because the outside air is foul due to a truck belching black smoke out the exhaust. Are commercial trucks required to pass emissions each year?

Diesel trucks, buses, trains, ships (which are a big source in So.Cal.), trailered construction vehicles like tractors, earthmovers, etc. which are used all day long are exempt. I guess we should have lobbied, wined and dined, and contributed more like the transportation sector has done.

 

[dsagers]

What the masses don't understand is that car exhaust is the leading cause of ozone depletion and the rate at which it is occurring is PHENOMENAL. There is NO EXCUSE to continue to pollute PERIOD. None. It doesn't matter what we want.... what matters ultiimately is the future existance of this planet, our species and all life. It is hard to understand and comprehend this and sacrifice.

Although I would be devasted to have to deal with the additional emission problems... I would do it knowing it is in the best interest of all and for the future...

Just my 2 cents. Funny how us humans hate to be inconveinanced...

I strongly differ here. What the masses do understand is a scam. Yes, we hate to be inconvenienced... especially when the motivation is greed, money, power and politics, and has nothing to do with the truth.

Global warming & ozone depletion are a result of the Sun's activity. Auto emissions have relatively little effect.

You have to be deeply intellectually dishonest to ignore the effects of the Sun and claim that climate changes are the result cars and Man's activity. Just think for a minute about the vast power and influence the Sun has on Earth, and try to tell me with a straight face that our cars are even a dot on the map as compared to the immense energy released by the Sun. One good sun flare eruption and we could all be toast.

Another item, Mt St Helens sure belched out a lot of pollution in the last couple of weeks. I doubt that all the cars in Calif could put out that much pollution if they were run at redline 24/7 for years & years.

This is the reason its called JUNK SCIENCE

Ever wonder the reason we can't get an accurate 2 day weather forecast, but activitists and scientists (for sale to the highest bidder), can tell us the forecast for 20 years from now?

What about the vast destruction the environmentalists caused with the Exxon Valdez accident? The areas left alone by the clean up crews have recovered faster and better than the areas scrubbed by the crews. The hysterical environmentalists should have let the entire area alone, it would have been better. Illustrating once again that these so called environmental experts don't have a clue about what is really happening or how to solve a problem.

I once heard it called Global Bologna, which is a much more accurate description of the environmentalists whining, than anything else.

The real motivation behind the environmentalist's agenda is to take away private property rights and put the Global UN Government in control of everything. They want your cars, they want to tell you what you can do with your land, if you can build on it, clear off the weeds and brush, or if you have to leave it completely undeveloped because some obscure bug was seen on the land some time in the last 20 years. Didn't your dumb arse leader, Al Gore write in his book that the internal combustion engine is the greatest threat in the 20th Century.

I also see that Al Gore and other environmentalists want the global human population reduced by some 50% in the next 20 years. Talk about concern for future generations...

Who goes into the gas chambers first? Maybe the environmentalists will set a good example and be first in line to rid the world of excess population.


I could go on and on with examples of where the environmentalists made outrageous, even apocalyptic predictions of what the world would be like in 20 or 30 years, and now that those years have passed these wild predictions turned out to be nothing more than fear mongering. In the last 35 years I wonder how much money environmentalists have extorted from businesses and governments to fund their fraudulent activities and line their own pockets.

 

[photovette]

Ever wonder the reason we can't get an accurate 2 day weather forecast, but activitists and scientists (for sale to the highest bidder), can tell us the forecast for 20 years from now?

CO2 is a strong greenhouse gas--doubling the world's CO2 level has GOT to do some harm. However, before I go any further, I will write to various scientists and get the answer to the above question--I wanna know too!

I know they're BS'ing us on the Ozone Layer, but I had thought that rising CO2 levels were a real problem. When I get their answers, I'll post it here.

 

[yellow77]

Just want to point out, I travel a lot in my job, and it is my observation, most auto polution comes from the middle and far east, not from the U.S. These countries drive everywhere with NO pollution control requirements on their vehicles at all. If you dont believe me, go to Cairo and enjoy the mud brown horizon. The government and the likes of GM,Ford etc will not force me into buying a new car in the guise of helping the environment when all they are all just trying to force us to buy new cars thereby bolstering the auto manufacturers and thus the economy!

 

[WayneLBurnham]

The greenhouse effect is real...but it's a whole

different matter on whether it is occuring now, here, and whether all of human activity is significantly affecting it. Lots of data has been gathered, but most of those gathering this data did have a belief and their conclusions are at best, questionable. The standard global temperature index has a data base only 10-15 years old and is still only a composite of a few thousand points.

It is still a question of belief being manipulated by the largely cohesive media into declared fact. There is no way we have gathered enough data since these concerns were raised not two generations ago to prove anything. (Don't forget we didn't even know with any certainty the continents even move until just half a generation before that!)

What is also completely overlooked is the ability to artificially correct this problem without reducing us to happy cabbage eating peasants living our enlightened agrarian utopian lives directed by the benevolent overseeing elitists who would save us from ourselves. There are any number of schemes to scrub greenhouse gasses from the atmosphere much more quickly than they are produced or to otherwise positively affect the planetary temperature balance, but these are rejected out of hand by the dominant forces in the environmental community because they would refute their base belief that humanity (especially their own culture) is essentially negative and must be restrained if not eradicated.

The same is even truer of the related high level "ozone crisis" supposedly caused by heavier than air nearly inert gasses or their breakdown products (which are produced in quantities orders of magnitude higher by the oceans) being somehow mixed up to the highest levels of the atmosphere past whereven the minor traces of helium and free hydrogen manage to only slowly get to. It is not that difficult an undertaking to regenerate any actually lost ozone. This also, is completely anethema to the environmentalist creed, however, as this is humanity, and ordinary western societies, not as evil incarnate but as saviors when to their stilted belief systems we are evil (generally because individually they have been dissatisfied with their lot in those same societies.)

There have been and are many true environmental problems and concerns, but these are both generally localized phenomena and lost amongst a virtual religious belief on the part of proponents and lock step resistive or short-term profit-driven motivations of key opponents. Often overlooked is the titanic energy and pollution required to simply make a new car, no matter how "non polluting", compared to that required to maintain and operate even the most polluting older model.

One thing is completely obvious though: our old performance vehicles contribute no significant impact to environmental problems and are more targetted by bitter, disaffected extremists promoting undemocratic governmental actions in accordance with their personal grudges against their own culture and not over any rational concern. They should be resisted as completely as those who would make any of our societies some ideological, religious or lifestyle uniform "utopia."

 

[Mr. Chuck]

I have lived in California since 1959 and have seen the smog problem improve greatly when the focus was on large number of cars that smoked like chimmeys (bad ring / valves, etc), when the smog checks forced poor running cars to be serviced and repaired. California political powers have in my opinion loss focus on what remains as the major contributors to Pollution . I think a better bang for our buck would be to go after the cars with by-passed smog systems, that you can smell a block away. Or the old lawn mowers, edgers (gas powered) that have no control over the level of polluting emissions. Or all the boats that operate in the many harbors along our coast line. I would bet that the levels of emissions polluation from these sources far exceed the very low mileage collector cars of all types / models in a year. Many show cars are even trailered to shows and are not even stated. Based on some of the old mowers I have had / used over years, which smoked like mad and no one never ever said I needed to reduce the emissions being poured into the environment.
My 81 has to this date continued to pass the California smog test without any type of repair or service. I strongly agree that the older cllasicare cars are far more serviced / repaired and adjusted to maintain clean running engines.

 

[Vette Dawg]

Those of you in who've been maybe a little distracted by the Presidential contest, the Scott Peterson double-murder trial and the liberals few attempts as giving illegal aliens driver licenses need to be aware of another big problem on the horizon for Corvette owners who live in California have 1976 or later cars.

First, you may ask why, if you don't live in CA, this should be of interest? Well, most states with liberal/environmentalist lobbies which control motor vehicle legislation pattern their exhaust emissions regulation after California so, what happens in that state is what might happen in other states so all owners of older Corvette need to take notice.

The liberals and other politicians looking for "cover" from environmentalists have just about succeeded in repealing California's rolling, 30-year exemption from it's emissions controls inspection and maintenance program called "Smog check"

You recall, the liberal, anti-car-hobby factions in CA tried to to this last year, but were defeated on the floor of the legislature by pro-car-hobby organizations and voters. This new attempt is with a slightly different bill and, this time, had the support of business interests (including General Motors).

If signed into law, Assembly Bill (AB) 2683 requires the following:

1. Require vehicles of the post 1975 model year, even if insured as
collector cars (driven only to parades, exhibitions, etc.), and at least
35-years old to continue in the Smog Check program for the duration of the
vehicle's life.

2. Revise the Smog Check testing regimen for these qualifying
vehicles to include a tailpipe test, functional inspection of the fuel cap
and a visual inspection for liquid fuel leaks. The vehicle would be forced
to comply with the exhaust emissions standards for the vehicle's class and
model year as prescribed by California regulators.

The bottom line is AB 2683 has passed the California Senate and the Assembly and is headed for the Governor's desk for signature.

Now, before you think, "No problem. Schwarzenegger will veto it", know this. Arnold Schwarzenegger is a fiscal conservative but a social moderate. There is no evidence that he supports pro car hobby legislation on conservative principles.

If you own a 1976 or later car and you don't like the idea of loosing the existing 30-year rolling exemption from the smog check, call or FAX the Governor's office, now!!

The Governor may be reached at:
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-445-4633

Also, know that this bill is another of the State government's underhanded attempts at forcing old cars off the road. This bill will be the kiss-of-death for cars after 1980 because they depend on engine controls for emissions compliance and many parts of their emissions controls are discontinued. Confronted with the 76-up smog check and no way to repair the vehicle, many people will be forced to sell or scrap their Corvettes.

The truth remains the same:

* California's current law recognizes the minimal impact of vehicles
30-years old and older on vehicle emissions and air quality.

* Vehicles 30-years old and older still constitute a minuscule portion
of the overall vehicle population and are a poor source from which to look
for emissions reduction.

* Antique and classic vehicles are overwhelmingly well-maintained and
infrequently driven (a fraction of the miles each year as a new vehicle).

* Legislators, regulators and stationary source polluters are feeling
the heat from a failed effort to meet air quality goals and are looking for
a convenient scapegoat, using false data and inflated annual mileage
assumptions to further their case. The old car hobby should not carry the
burden of their mistakes!

All the more reason for me to persue my dream of owning a 1969 Corvette Stingray vert.