Cancelation of Corvette

[kingman]

Being Realistic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Guys

Get one thing straight, Bob Lutz is no fool and he is our friend, what ever he does, he does it right.
In the automotive industry everything takes time, mostly because of litigation, be patient, Lutz will make us proud of him for advancing the vette to another level.
No matter what comes out of Bowling Green, we should be thrilled.

The biggest problem in Detroit is that the profit margins are erroding, due to a sluggish market. The vette is not a high volume car, but it is status mark for GM.

The C6 will be an outragous machine, for no other reason that it is a corvette period. It doesn't really matter what you and l think at this point in time.

As much as l like my 96 C4, l should have waited to buy a C5. Now l will wait for a C6 to come onto the used car market.

You live and learn!

As far as Black Ice knowing anything, he knows Jack. He reads the tabloids (auto) and takes a stab. The C6 is built (prototypes)
approved, all of the outside contractors have been given their orders and now it's up to Bowling Green.

The Caddy will come first because Caddy sales have been slipping for years. This will help the new C6.

This is my two cents.

Alan

p.s. as much as l know, l do not know Jack!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[blocker44]

Like I said before.....Deja vous.
Rob, I am with you on this one. You gotta do what ya gotta do.

 

[Edmond]

Guys,

Honestly, I just enjoy reading about C6 and everyone's theories on how it will go and what it should do, etc... I can honestly say that I have absolutely no intention of buying a C6. For that matter, I have no intention of buying a new car of any kind. Call me cheap (poor is a more apt description), but I've always had used cars. I don't think I've ever even driven a new car.

Back to the subject. C5 was/is a great automobile that really moved the Corvette world forward. Can it be topped? Sure it can, C2 topped C1 and C3 topped C2, etc... I'm sure Detroit has engineers constantly looking for little ways to improve the cars.

As for Lutz, I don't know much about him. I do know he was one of the main figures behind the Viper. I also know that Lutz is only one man and one man cannot carry the company. Lutz will no doubt, do the best he can. What we really need is a GM employee to give us perspective on how/if GM has changed since Lutz became the boss.

 

[tyrel]

The C5 is selling very well, mostly owing to the fact that it is a better car than its predecessor and appeals to a larger group of people, i.e., it's easier to get in/out of, has more cargo area, handles like a cadillac, is more reliable, etc. There's no reason to expect that the C6 isn't going to sell as well or better than the C5. The corvette has always been a niche car. GM knows this and has tried to kill the car several times in the past during the dark times, but has always held onto the car anyway. The Corvette is pretty much here to stay.

 

[78SilvAnniv]

The Corvette is pretty much here to stay.

Boy I hope so!
I was very impressionable when the C3s were under production and when the C4s came out I wasn't very impressed with their lack of style compared to the C3, although the C4s have really grown on me recently. I also did not care for the C5 since I was continually confusing it with the Pontiacs, but now that I have had time to tell the difference, I love the C5s!
(I especially loved the Z06 ride Tammy gave me!)

I expect I will probably hem and haw about the C6, but I know I will grow to love it, too. If for no other reason than it is a Corvette.
Heidi

 

[Last Ride]

With all the hype surroundingthe C6 and then the perceived "letdown" of the spy shots, I began to wonder something. Do you folks think we will ever again see a Corvette with a design as outlandish as, say, the C3? For some reason, I just don't see that happening. Maybe there are some cars I am not thinking of right now, but I think the last production car (albeit low volume) to push the limits of radical style was the first generation Viper. I am not saying AT ALL that the C4 or C5 are ugly, quit the opposite is true. I am simply saying that there seems to be some sort of push towards practicality (i.e. the golf bag scenario). I suppose times change, but I for one could care less how many golf bags I could carry. Gimme something with some stylistic reach! Having said that, I suppose most people wouldn't be too willing to drop 50 large on a vehicle that would be as impractical as a C3, but I digress. What does everyone else think?

 

[78SilvAnniv]

I have to agree with Bryan!

I feel that design-wise the Corvette (and other sports cars) will be limited. With the power and handling available, the vehicle needs to be shaped a certain way for high speeds (as was explained to me about the C4 design) and this will limit whatever 'radical' new designs we'll see to closely following aerodynamics and not aesthetics.
Heidi

 

[Rob]

With all the hype surroundingthe C6 and then the perceived "letdown" of the spy shots, I began to wonder something. Do you folks think we will ever again see a Corvette with a design as outlandish as, say, the C3? For some reason, I just don't see that happening. Maybe there are some cars I am not thinking of right now, but I think the last production car (albeit low volume) to push the limits of radical style was the first generation Viper. I am not saying AT ALL that the C4 or C5 are ugly, quit the opposite is true. I am simply saying that there seems to be some sort of push towards practicality (i.e. the golf bag scenario). I suppose times change, but I for one could care less how many golf bags I could carry. Gimme something with some stylistic reach! Having said that, I suppose most people wouldn't be too willing to drop 50 large on a vehicle that would be as impractical as a C3, but I digress. What does everyone else think?

I doubt very much that you'll see a return to something that is very close to the C3 or C2 design. Instead, you'll probably see subtle hints back to those designs. The reason being, that the C3 was not very aerodynamic for high speed performance. The C2 was even worse as the shape of it acted like an airplane wing generating an enormous amount of lift in the front end at high speed. The C1, while stylish and stunning with all the chrome, was never the less like driving a brick at high speed.

We're now at a point where wind tunnel testing is usually the norm for high performance vehicles. Wind tunnel testing heavily influenced the design of the C5 hence the very low 0.29 drag coefficient of the coupe.

In taking a look at other high performance sports cars - the new Viper has been massaged over the previous generations in order to provide better high speed stability.

Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches, etc, all rely heavily on wind tunnel testing which basically dictates overall shape and design to help performance.

As far as how many golf clubs, I can carry, I totally agree with you. I've never agreed with howsupposedly dictated, to some degree, the design of the C5.

Give me a purpose built sports car that is built for absolutely NO other reason than to tickle my desire to drive.

I love to drive. I love the open road. I love to feel torque and that feeling of being sucked back in the seat when I lightly exhale on the gas pedal. When I take a corner at speed, I want to feel like I'm absolutely locked into position and 100% stable and when I bear down on that brake pedal, I want the car to feel like it just landed on an aircraft carrier.

I don't care if I can or cannot haul my groceries or my golf clubs in it (I'm not a golf player to begin with). Hauling capability is not why I buy a sports car. I buy a truck or a mid-size car to do that type of stuff - not a sports car.

Give me a Corvette that looks sleek, fast, and slightly exotic regardless of whether it's standing still or moving at speed; that's nimble in the corners like a go-kart and capable of leaving the competition in the dust on the racetrack. Leave the new Cadillac CTS to doing the hauling!

That's my two cents.

 

[67HEAVEN]

Good points, Rob.

Let me add my own. (NOTE: I recognize that my opinion is so far away from main stream as to be considered certifiable.)

My approach to Corvettes has never changed in 36 years. Performance is everything.....well maybe a little styling too.

If Chevrolet asked me ( :J like that's gonna happen) I'd ask for an additional C6 model.....sort of a Corvette Lite.

Sure, build the regular C6, and add in the Z-06 too, but give me a C6-Lite with LS-6 engine (or better). Call me stupid, but I believe there is a market (probably a small market) for a "stripped" Corvette. No air, no power windows, no sound system, no sound deadener.....in fact they can pretty much gut it to where they cover the safety and pollution laws and not much else. Get 500-700 pounds out of there and call me.

I have a work vehicle, a family cruiser and a certain fiberglass 2-seater that's heading down the "rebuild back-straight". If Chevrolet's not going to spend 50-years worth of development costs (like they have done with the small block) on an all-aluminum big block, then the only thing that will ever get me to pony up for a new Corvette is a "serious" weight-savings program.....like that's going to happen.
:L

 

[78SilvAnniv]

I don't care if I can or cannot haul my groceries or my golf clubs in it...

I actually do most of the shopping in the 78...the limited room available to me keeps me from spending too much!
The only bad thing is...Kenny knows every time I make a purchase too large to fit in the vette! :L
Heidi

 

[Dream_Driver]

Hey Rob )

Since you did touch a bit on the C3 at high speed. If a C3 is set up right what would be the comfortable top end for a C3? I am getting or trying to aquire parts for my 73 and trying to figure out gear ratios. I mean why have a car with the HP and the gearing to run 230+ if the car itself is not capable of it.

 

[SlowRide]

The C2 was even worse as the shape of it acted like an airplane wing generating an enormous amount of lift in the front end at high speed.

True......during a seminar at the Concourse de Elegance, they had all of the Grand Sports gathered together with their past drivers. One interesting topic was about the front end lifting on the C2's at high speed. Jim Hall talked about driving down the straight away with the front wheels off of the ground and not being able to see the turn coming up until he de-accelerated. :eek

 

[kingman]

All Needs are Different!!

HI

My first vette was a 68 coupe and l thought it was the C5 of it's day. My next vette was a custom 64 station wagon (woodie), now this was a throw back compared with the luxury 68.
My next venture was the 76, now this was smooth and quiet.

So when l looked for a 91, l kept on moving up until l bought a 96 because, this was the best of the C4's. To be honest, today l couldn't tell the diff between the 91-96 from sitting behind the wheel.

The C5 was just, to car like and didn't really feel like a sports car
compared to a C4. Now the C5, feels like a sports car, light years ahead of the C4.

It's what you get used to. As far as the cargo area of the C5, it's great if you plan on taking trips and toting golf clubs.

l'm sure the C6 will grow on all of us and my next vette will depend on how much money l have at the time, because it's a third car. l probably only drive it one day a week and 200 miles a month, but l hope that will change.

Alan

p.s. l still think the C1's are the coolest of the vettes.

 

[KANE]

The real trick would be to build and sell the Cavalier for $10-17K, the new F-body replacements for $17-25K, and the Corvette for $25-37K.

GM is making leaps and bounds for performance parts and brand identity. Its nice to see that Pontiac has found its soul again. Its even better that the Corvette is the ultimate in state-of-the-art.

But it would be nice for GM to realize the dream again- AFFORDABLE PERFORMANCE OFF THE SHOW ROOM FLOOR. A high performance American car shouldn't be exclusive because of its price. For as long as that happens, Japanese cars will still be the rage and we will all suffer at the hands of Honda with 35 decals and body kits right out of comic books.

The saving grace to the Camaro, Firebird, and late '80s Corvettes are the fact that ANYONE can afford a USED one. Hmmmm.... seems like the '60s are here again. A late model, EFI renaissance. Muscle cars (err- sports cars too!!!) that are affordable. The trick is to find one NEW and AFFORDABLE.

I don't think the Corvette WILL ever be under $30K (again) and associated with the word new. A 'stripper' model? We all got our hopes up with the C5 fixed roof. No such luck- the now lowest price Vette turned out to be the targa (notice that the price didn't drop with the introduction of the C5-R). Heck, a C5 with a Vortec engine would have been cool too. Why not- thats what the L48 was!!!!

Personally, for as long as this trend exists, I will never buy one new. I will continue to build C4s (and C5s) par cars out of C3 body cars. 17in wheels, an LS1, a T56 tranny, and lots of parts from Vette Brakes will suffice nicely for money.

 

[67HEAVEN]

True......during a seminar at the Concourse de Elegance, they had all of the Grand Sports gathered together with their past drivers. One interesting topic was about the front end lifting on the C2's at high speed. Jim Hall talked about driving down the straight away with the front wheels off of the ground and not being able to see the turn coming up until he de-accelerated. :eek

Check the headlight doors! Check the hood! Check the body lift! :eek

You want fun? Yikes! This was fun!

 

[Edmond]

You see, a plane was meant to fly, not a car!:L

 

[67HEAVEN]

Here's the info on the above photo.
==========================
It comes from Franz Esteriecher, by way of 63Corvette.

It was taken on February 16, 1963 at Daytona. The white #17 car is a stock '63 Z-06 driven by A.J. Foyt, and the silver #3 car is a Mickey Thompson lightweight powered by the 427 "mystery" engine.

Comment by 63Corvette (Garrett):
"Bottom line is, these cars are scary and not really predictable over 150 mph. I once had my Z-06 suddenly "rotate" about 45 degrees left at the "bump" where the Porsche GT-1 flipped, just before the dip at RA. It then responded to steering, and straightened out, but I never found out what caused it." :eek

 

[SlowRide]

If Chevrolet asked me ( :J like that's gonna happen) I'd ask for an additional C6 model.....sort of a Corvette Lite.

Sure, build the regular C6, and add in the Z-06 too, but give me a C6-Lite with LS-6 engine (or better). Call me stupid, but I believe there is a market (probably a small market) for a "stripped" Corvette. No air, no power windows, no sound system, no sound deadener.....in fact they can pretty much gut it to where they cover the safety and pollution laws and not much else. Get 500-700 pounds out of there and call me.

I have both a work vehicle, a family cruiser and a certain fiberglass 2-seater that's heading down the "rebuild back straight". If Chevrolet's not going to spend 50-years worth of development costs (like they have done with the small block) on an all-aluminum big block, then the only thing that will ever get me to pony up for a new Corvette is a "serious" weight-savings program.....like that's going to happen.
:L

I agree with you 100%. There is absolutely no reason why this cannot be done. I would gurantee if GM did give the public a stripped down, big block option (not necessarily BIG BLOCK weight, but Big Block displacement...4 2 7!!.) THEY WOULD SELL!! You guys have heard me say it many times before...well here I go again. The C5-R block is waiting and ready to go. In the words of Nike...."Just Do It".

Now, on the other hand, lets talk about stripped down models.

I am not sure if this is a good analogy...but here goes.
My line of work is product design. When we are assigned projects for my company, we are told to hit a certain manufacturing cost and also told to use as many standard parts as possible. In saying this, GM would have to create new parts to fill in the voids the optional parts would leave when removed. That would entail new parts to design, new molds to create (costly)...sales volume might prohibit GM recouping the cost of tool and die on all of those new parts. And, you would think, they could not charge the same amount for the car as they would for the "optioned" model....unless they put an aluminum beast under the hood. But with that said, they already are putting the carbon fiber hood on the Z06 for 2004 ($4,000.00 upcharge...oh yeah, you get stripes and a suspension upgrade too). Why not also utilize carbon fiber in other areas of the body to save weight?

 

[Edmond]

Yeah, they could do a 427 because the tuners do it. I think after they do the 427, they could defray some of the cost by putting that 427 in trucks as well. I'm sure those contractor guys could use some more HP and torque for their work trucks.

 

[BigRed]

Do you guys think the engineers at GM should take a partnership with someone like Callaway or Lingenfelter to aid the design as well as power of the newer cars?

I think from the "spy" shots that the design team seems to be running out of ideas! Look at the Body kits from Lingenfelter or the Callaway C12! I think if some of the right heads rubbed together the new Corvettes (C6 and beyond) would be something REAL special like the old days.