Car wont start, again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tntcorvette]

My car will not start and im looking for help.

I recently replaced my entire ignition system and found the car not to run. I've got a msd 6A, MSD coil & matching msd bushing, accel cap & rotor, holley ignition module, msd 8.5mm spark plug wires and a set of a/c delco spark plug wires. Everkything is new and installed correctly. I've got the timing set correctly and all.

Today I pulled the spark plugs and found them to be black & 2 of them were just about fouled. Looks like I was running rich (due to a looser not connecting my mat sensor and me driving the car 50 miles, but thats another story).

I put in new plug wires and did a leak down test on the injectors. They seem fine, but I do notice that the car will not hold fuel pressure for long (turn ignition forward and the pressure jumps to about 40 then falls back to about 25 in a couple of minutes, if that).

After putting in new plugs I tried to start the car and it still wont start. I can hear popping out of the mufflers as if it wants to start, but it wont. I've disconnected the MSD and it still wont run, so thats not the problem.

Anyone have any ideas whats going on? Even if my injectors were leaking like there was no tomorrow the car should start right? I have no codes because I disconnected the battery terminal while working on the car.

Where should I start? I've been through the hanyes manual and everything seems to be as it should.

BTW, this is on my 85 corvette.

 

[rrubel]

I had the same symptoms (popping from the exhaust, no start) on my 89 Subaru. The timing belt had slipped a couple of teeth on the gears so the engine was WAY out of time, even though the marks lined up.

Hopefully it's something that simple for you.

[RICHR]

 

[tntcorvette]

how can I tell if the teeth are off? and effecting the timing?

Should I just rotate the distributor until it fires?

Im lost and getting ready to ebay my car if it wont start.


:cry

 

[BigRed]

I think Coil...A bad coil

 

[tntcorvette]

the car has a brand new msd coil, not to mention a complete new ignition.

Please re-read my original post for the run-down on the car.

So far, only thing I can guess is the timing is off via the distributor gear/timing mark on the balancer.

 

[rrubel]

I haven't looked under the timing cover of my Vette, but the Subaru has marks on each cam plus the crank and the marks have to be lined up properly. On mine, one cam was lined up right and the other was off a few degrees - the mark was pointing to the wrong place (boxer 4 engine - two separate banks of cylinders).

Ok, looking at my 86 shop guide if you remove the front cover, there are timing marks on the camshaft and the crankshaft that should all line up vertically (three marks, two on crank one at TOP of cam). This is with #1 cyl and #6 cyl at TDC.

Hope this helps. Simple thing first - are you getting spark at all eight plugs?

[RICHR]

 

[MoeJr]

If you have 2 injectors stuck open it will be almost impossible to start the car. My suggection would be to pull the fuel pump fuse and see if you can clear it out. If it starts that way then you'll probably hafta put a set of injectors in. Just my .02

 

[BlackNBlue95]

Just a note There is no such thing as a Known Good Part! You can get a bad part that is new.. kinda confused here was this problem there before you put all the iginition parts on or after? BTW if you sell the car how much are you looking to get for it?

If this problem started right after you replaced the iginition system components then it seems likely you have a spark problem..

If this problem started a while after you replaced the iginition components it could be a fuel problem.. BTW How long have the plugs been in that engine?

If you don't get this solved E-mail me at RCesak@aol.com I'm in the chicagoland area maybe I can help you out..

-Rick

 

[cntrhub]

I will chase a previous post I wrote, and post it after this...maybe it will or won't help?
If all the plugs are black and sooty as you say, it could be running way before proper ignition fire....(retarded). If one or two injectors were fouling the plugs and the others looked white, I'd say it was a couple bad injectors.....but I am leaning towards ignition misalignment, because, "all" the plugs are black.

 

[cntrhub]

I would check the wires again. Seems you get gas to light off the engine. Once the engine tries to chase the next sequential cylinder, it lights off a cylinder with an open intake valve. Thus the spark lights the fuel and out she comes in a flame of fire through the carb.
V8 firing sequence is: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. Remove the dist cap. Crank the engine over by hand. This may take a few revolutions before you time in the rotor postion with the timing mark on the harmonic balancer. The #1 cylinder's (TDC compression) rotor should be facing at 11:00 o'clock. I rather you get #1 compression for a start. I don't want to confuse you doing it another way that will have the same results. Lets keep it simple. Meaning, if you were sitting in the driver's seat, and you looked directly over the rotor (with the cap off), the rotor would face 11:00 o'clock. The rotor's metal tip should be even with the cap's metal tip also. If they don't line up, move the dist shaft until they line up. Lightly tighten the bolt. You'll need to move the whole shaft again, when timing the engine with a storbe light. We will begin with this, as our #1 cylinder postion. This should light up the engine (at least), after we are done with this. Worry about timing with a light later. Now turn the crank a few degrees until the rotor hits the next plug postion under the cap's metal tip. You're going to have to do the old "eye ball" guess doing this. The easy way is to lift (the cap) straight up to guage positions. This should be cylinder #8. Move the crank to the next wire cap postion. This will be cylinder #4....so on,and so on. This is the best way to double check your wire routing to each cylinder.
Sit in the driver's seat again. Left hand bank = odd cylinders. #1 being farthest away from your seat. Cylinder #7 being closest to your seat. Even cylinders = right hand bank. Cylinder #2 at the radiator. Cylinder #8, back at the fire wall.
Is the engine doing the same thing? Did you remove the distributor shaft and not time in the rotor at TDC #1 (11:00 o'clock)? Is the engine still doing the same thing? Did you adjust the push rods with this engine? There might be a tight valve sticking open. Let me know, I'll walk you through a valve adjustment.
Get all this out of the way before you chase a fuel problem.

 

[Jack]

how can I tell if the teeth are off? and effecting the timing?

Should I just rotate the distributor until it fires?

Im lost and getting ready to ebay my car if it wont start.


:cry

Just Rotate... NO!
ebay ... NO!

Have you had the distributor out/pulled ... OR ... been Rotating it just prior to your major problems? If so, I'm leaning toward an ig timing issue ... maybe a plug wire mixup

How about a more concise chronology of when & what parts were swapped/upgraded, when/if distributor pulled/rotated and when & what problems popped up?

RE: msd 6 box ... Have you checked your msd 6 instructions? There's a simple procedure in there to check the box ... something like momentarily ground a white wire & look for an arc to prove box OK ... dont go by my recall ... check the msd instructions. Have you put a meter across the coil posts when it's driven by the 6 box & cranking/running? Careful, voltage across 6 box-driven coil posts should be WAY, WAY more than +50 Volts. Do that & post back with meter reading & result of 6 box test.

PS: I harp on this a lot but ... if your harmonic balancer/damper outer ring has slipped (it happens), the timing mark will be in wrong place & you won't be able to time the motor ... except by ear. To troubleshoot damper, you must first verify #1 piston is truly @ TDC ... afterwhich see if timing mark on damper is actually @ zero.
JACK:gap

 

[tntcorvette]

*EDIT*

false alarm re: car not starting.

There is a constant 12 volts at both wires on all injectors, but one should "pulse" when the motor is cranked.

back to the drawing board

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[tntcorvette]

Just a note There is no such thing as a Known Good Part! You can get a bad part that is new.. kinda confused here was this problem there before you put all the iginition parts on or after? BTW if you sell the car how much are you looking to get for it?

If this problem started right after you replaced the iginition system components then it seems likely you have a spark problem..

If this problem started a while after you replaced the iginition components it could be a fuel problem.. BTW How long have the plugs been in that engine?

If you don't get this solved E-mail me at RCesak@aol.com I'm in the chicagoland area maybe I can help you out..

-Rick

Thanks for the offer. But im pretty far away from Downers Grove....about 5 miles from the Indiana boarder.

I'll keep you and everyone posted on my cars problems.

 

[Eagle85C4]

Just for grins and haha's try putting the old cap and rotor on. I had an old old's that after I tuned it up would not run...turns out the new cap and rotor for some reason would not work...put the old stuff back on and it fired right up. Never did figure out why...just got another cap and rotor and it ran fine. Just an idea.

 

[tntcorvette]

the car has started and boy am I happy

Basically I goofed up when installing the new module and put the rotor on backwards

:duh

And I did find another problem...there is a small "thing" that attaches to the driver side rear cylinder head that has 2 terminals. Well the bozo who installed my wire harness failed to insuate it and it was grounding against my intake manifold bolt.

Never the less, I just took the car for a spin and laid down about a 100 foot patch of rubber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:Twist

 

[Eagle85C4]

That small "thing" is your tach filter. You should have in on there. And the case is supposed to bolt to the head for it's ground. one wire to distributor and the other to the harness. You can bypass it but I would not leave it like that for long. If it is bad and causing the ignition to ground out, bypass it and send it to me and I will rebuild it for you. Cost will be parts and shipping as necessary. I rebuilt mine and used much heavier parts. Problem is they do not make it any longer. Let me know if I can help.

 

[rrubel]

Cool! Glad it was a simple fix.
[RICHR]