Help! Carter WCFB Tuning Help

[PD2]

Hi all!

Been a while since I posted anything here, but, I've recently been trying to go it alone on working on my Vettes. The one I have is a 1963 with a 327, 250HP that has a Carter's WCFB. Back when I was having a "known" mechanic and classic car restorer help me, he told me that the carb I had was the original and was at the end of tuning and tweaking and just needed to be replaced completely. So I purchased a NOS rebuilt WCFB 250HP carb from Corvette Central.

Today I installed the carb and left all settings as is on the carb. I also cleaned the manifold area really good and installed a new carb gasket that I also got from Corvette Central. After getting everything back together on the carb and linkage all back in place, I cranked up the car. Started and ran fine at first, but this is where my problems start.

Once the car was warmed up to just shy of 180, I tried to adjust the idle speed screw to get the idle RPM's to idle around 750 or so - it jus would not idel unless I kept on the gas. After it would idle - if you want to call it that as it was ROUGH idleing. The car idles like it has a high-lift cam in it and really shakes the motor in the motor compartment. I tried to adjust the idle mix screws a little but never really noticed any change in the way the car idled. When I'd clear the car out by reving up the motor I'd get a few small backfires and during WOT the tail pipe dumps puffs of black smoke. The carbon monoxide smells a little like it would be rich - fuel like - but the fuel smell is not normal, so to speak. It smells almost like old fuel or something. I don't know how to explain it fully.

Basically, I need so very basic, newbie type help with getting this new carb setup to run smoothly. I'm not very familiar with working on carb, engines or the like and I currently own three shop manuals that don't give me a ton of information on how to set the screws - well, it does but its telling me to hook up tachometers, vac gauges, and things like that which I do not have.

If anyone can help me through this I'd greatly appreciate it. Again, this is a newly rebuilt carb from Corvette Central so I'm assuming that the carb is not the issue here. Fuel gets in the barrels just fine and when the car is off, no fuel is leaking into the barrels (this was something that was happening with the old carb). Choke operates correctly - in fact, even better than the old carb. Open up when heated and closes up when cooled down. I'm not sure what else I can tell you, so please ask questions and I'll try to fill in any gaps as necessary.

Thank you, in advance, for any and all help!
PD2

 

[o2bnkc]

Make sure you're getting all plugs firing. It sounds like you may have sonething as simple as a fouled plug. Start by pulling one wire off at a time from your distributor. If there is no change in your rough idle when doing this, check that plug. Go around and do all eight Check your vacuum also. I know some people don't think additives really work, but I'd dump a can load of Seafoam in the tank. I bet in the long run it will be something simple, but sometimes those are the hardest to figure out.

 

[PD2]

Make sure you're getting all plugs firing. It sounds like you may have sonething as simple as a fouled plug. Start by pulling one wire off at a time from your distributor. If there is no change in your rough idle when doing this, check that plug. Go around and do all eight Check your vacuum also. I know some people don't think additives really work, but I'd dump a can load of Seafoam in the tank. I bet in the long run it will be something simple, but sometimes those are the hardest to figure out.

Let me make sure I understand.....with the car running and after it has warmed up, start by pulling one wire off at a time from the distributor. If the rough idle stops when I pull that wire, put the wire back on the distributor and go onto the next wire until I find a wire that there is no change in the rough idle (i.e. - find a wire that does not make the rough idle stop), correct? When I check the plug, what am I looking for on the plug?

What is the best way to check my vacuum? I double-checked all of the hoses coming into the carb and made sure they were secure and if they had an adjustable strap I double-checked the tight fittingness of them.

I did not add Seafoam to the tank, but a while back when the car sat for a bit I did put some stabilizer and a fuel additive from Lucas Oil. Could this be the issue and it just needs some fresh gas?

Thanks for your reply Outwest! I really appreciate it!
PD2

 

[o2bnkc]

I guess I sounded a little confusing. I'll try again. If your car was running perfect, and you pulled a plug wire off, you could tell the difference. The idle would be a little rough and it would bog down a little. Since yours is already running rough, if you pull a wire and nothing changes, you know that plug isn't firing. If it was running rich before, there could be buildup on the plugs. I would just change them all. If you're having backfiring, it could be the timing. I think it should be 8tdc. Make sure you vacuum advance line is off and plugged with something when you set your timing. I'm sure others will chime in and give some better advice than I can. Good luck and let us know what the problem was.

 

[Tom Bryant]

It sounds like you are getting more unburned fuel in the exhaust than just from a foulded plug. I know that you said the choke was working fine. By that do you mean that it closes and starts easy like it should AND it opens fully when it's warmed up? What you are describing sounds to me like the choke isn't opening fully. Have you observed the choke butterfly when the engine is warm and running and is it full open? You might just need to back off the choke a little.

Next I would suppect a needle not seating fully. That could be from a sticking float or debris in the needle/seat assembly. I had one that stuck occasionally with black smoke and rough idle being the result. I'd rap the carb with a screwdriver handle and it would clear up. Not a fix but it got me going again.

It could possibly be that the idle mixture screws are out way too far also. Turn them both in all the way until they just contact the seat then trun each one out 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 turns. That is a good place to start. To adjust them by sound, not using a tach or vacuum guage, turn each one in some. You should hear the engine slow down. Now turn it back out slowly until the engine stops gaining rpm. Turn it back in from that point 1/8 turn and you should be good to go. Alternate back and forth between the 2 screws 2 or 3 times to get a good balance on them as one might effect the other some. If you end up with either screw out more than 2 turns it is probably too far.

You may have to adjust the idle speed as you set the mixture screws to maintain your 750 rpm. Of course these suggestions are dependant on the carb having been properly rebuilt in the first place. I don't have any experience with Chicago Corvette. My guy remanufactures every part of the carb and tests it on a running engine, making all adjustments, before returning it to me. All I have to do is put it on and drive.

Tom

 

[PD2]

Hey guys!

Sorry for the slow/no reply. Got tied up catching up on work last week and then I FINALLY got to work on the carb again yesterday.

Funny thing, Tom, I did exactly what you said. I took the mix needles and screwed them, individually, all the way in - not tight - and then backed them out 1-1/2 turns. Then from there I started adjusting them further. I finally have no black smoke and no backfireing! So it must have been my idle mix screw setting being too far out as you said. I also thought about trusting the rebuilt work of the carb too and thus went around the top of the carb tightening down the screws that hold the upper half to the lower - several screws allowed me a little extra turning - not full turns or anything, but enough that they are all more snug then before - so its possible there were some air leaks there. I also dropped about 10 gallons of fresh gas in the tank. Between these things it seems that I got it so there is no more black smoke when I hit the throttle wide open and no back fire.

The next thing I did today was pull the distributor cap off and cleaned all the cap, the points cover and the surface of the points area as they all had this rust colored dusty look to them. I then also made use that my spark plug cables all snapped good in tight into the distributor - reassembled everything and cranked her up.

In high idle, while its still in choke, the car runs smooth with ZERO roughness! After it warms up and the butterfly opens all the way up, I'll hit the throttle to get it out of high idle and it returns to idel around 700-800. This is where it begins rough idleing. Although I think this time it was a bit better than what it has been. It was not shaken and idleing like it had a high-lift cam in it this time, but it was still not as smooth as my 300HP '63 that I also have.

The other thing that I keep hearing is a popping or sputtering type sound. At first I thought it was coming from the carb, but now it sounds like it is down below - almost like in the exhaust manifold. Its not really a backfire as much as it is a puttering, sputtering, bubbly popping type noise. Seems to be dominate on the passenger side more than the driver side, although you can hear it when standing on the drivers side. Is this an exhaust leak? And if so, could this be causing my rough idle problems?

Another question - the choke tub that comes out of the exhaust...is it supposed to have exhaust blowing around the tube in addition up the tube? In other words - should I feel any exhaust escaping around the tube where it goes into the exhaust manifold?

Another question - when looking at the idle mix screws, what does each one do? Is one a fuel mix and the other air or are they both fuel? Is one like a high needle setting and the other a low? Just trying to figure out when I adjust them what is each supposed to be doing to the tune of the car.

Tom, to answer your question, yes, the choke works PERFECTLY as described! Before starting, a pump of the throttle instantly snaps the choke butterfly closed and after the car cranks, it slowly opens it just like it should. So that is fully functional - cannot say that for the old WCFB nor my AFB on my 300HP. The AFB runs great, just need to manual close the choke butterfly and then it opens on its own.

I think I'm really close to having the car running right again, just not sure what I'm missing or what steps I need to do. Hopefully some of these new clues will help.

Thanks for being patient and thanks for your help guys!
PD2

 

[Tom Bryant]

Both idle mixture screws do the same thing. They control an idle circuit to one side of the carb (primary ventury). The further out they are the more fuel flows through the circuit. The fuel enters the air stream through a very small vertical opening in the side of the carb base casting just below the butterfly valves.

It does sound like you may have an exhaust leak. Probably the donut gasket on the bottom of the manifold where the pipe is attached. This is a common place for a leak to pop up. Look for black soot around the joint. Sometimes it's easy to hear or even see if you are looking right at it and reving the engine a little. Try it at night and you can sometimes see a little flame blowing out. Unless the pipe has been off recently this can be a job to fix. Rusted nuts cause the studs to twist off. If they have been replaced in the past with brass nuts you should have no problem dropping the pipe down to replace the donut seal. You may end up having to remove the exhaust manifold to replace the studs. A leak here would not make the engine idle rough but it will make it sound rougher.

The choke heat tube passes clear through the manifold and is heated by the exhaust. The bottom end of the tube is open to the outside of the manifold, not into the exhaust system. Only hot air goes to the choke. These steel tubes burn/rust through but are available from Paragon and others. If you have exhaust blowing out of the tube when it is disconnected from the carb it is burned out somewhere inside the manifold. It should also fit tightly in the manifold and not leak exhaust out around it.

I can remember back when we would find choke thermostat housings black with exhaust inside due to this problem regularly.

It sounds like you have the carb pretty close now. It's hard to determine what type of a rough idle you have without actually hearing it. I think, at this stage, I'd follow outwest's advice and try to determine if you have some ignition miss.

How old are your plug wires?

Have you cleaned your plugs since this began? That extra raw fuel may have sooted up your plugs.

Is your ignition shielding on?
I ask this because there is a very simple thing you can do to check your wires but you have to be able to see them. In the dark with your engine running look for flashes of spark from the wires. Move the wires some just in case there is a bare spot in full contact with a bracket or something in which case it may not make much of a flash. They might be jumping from along the wire someplace to ground or to each other. This would indicate bad insulation on the wires. Also you may see spark jumping down the side of a spark plug to the engine which would indicate that plug is not firing. Spark takes the easiest path to ground. Of course, a wire could be broken internally and not fire the plug or leak to the outside.

Cleaning or replacing the plugs should correct the spark jumping down the side of the plug but if the wires are leaking along their length then they need to be replaced.

You can buy plastic plug boot pliers at auto parts stores so you can pull wires with the engine running without doing an involuntary coil test each time you touch one. If all of the plugs are sooty and fouled to some degree you may have intermintent miss at each one and not see a big difference when removing wires one at a time.

First I'd clean or change out the plugs. Then check the wires. Cleaning the plugs may be all it needs.

Tom

 

[PD2]

Both idle mixture screws do the same thing. They control an idle circuit to one side of the carb (primary ventury). The further out they are the more fuel flows through the circuit. The fuel enters the air stream through a very small vertical opening in the side of the carb base casting just below the butterfly valves.

AH! OK. So when I richen them out or lean them in these needles will probably be about equal then, right?

It does sound like you may have an exhaust leak. Probably the donut gasket on the bottom of the manifold where the pipe is attached. This is a common place for a leak to pop up. Look for black soot around the joint. Sometimes it's easy to hear or even see if you are looking right at it and reving the engine a little. Try it at night and you can sometimes see a little flame blowing out. Unless the pipe has been off recently this can be a job to fix. Rusted nuts cause the studs to twist off. If they have been replaced in the past with brass nuts you should have no problem dropping the pipe down to replace the donut seal. You may end up having to remove the exhaust manifold to replace the studs. A leak here would not make the engine idle rough but it will make it sound rougher.

OK. I may hold off on this until I get the rough idle figured out. I don't think those exhaust pipes have been dropped and the studs replaced with brass studs and nuts - if I recall right, I think I remember seeing them all rusty looking. If this would not cause the rough idle, I can live with the popping sound for now.

The choke heat tube passes clear through the manifold and is heated by the exhaust. The bottom end of the tube is open to the outside of the manifold, not into the exhaust system. Only hot air goes to the choke. These steel tubes burn/rust through but are available from Paragon and others. If you have exhaust blowing out of the tube when it is disconnected from the carb it is burned out somewhere inside the manifold. It should also fit tightly in the manifold and not leak exhaust out around it.

The tube is brand new and not old or anything so I'm not too worries about rust and burn through on it. I'll have to try to remove the exhaust tube from the choke body and see if I have exhaust coming up from there. I do have exhaust/hot air coming from around the tube in the manifold. What is the best way to seal this off around the tube in the manifold?

I can remember back when we would find choke thermostat housings black with exhaust inside due to this problem regularly.

It sounds like you have the carb pretty close now. It's hard to determine what type of a rough idle you have without actually hearing it. I think, at this stage, I'd follow outwest's advice and try to determine if you have some ignition miss.

How old are your plug wires?

They are fairly new and were put in along with a new set of plugs by the guy who last worked on my car for me - local, trusted classic car restoration and service guy. I'd say if they were a year old that would be the most.

Have you cleaned your plugs since this began? That extra raw fuel may have sooted up your plugs.

No. getting to the plugs on the driver side is going to be fairly simple, but the passenger side has the air conditioning unit that is blocking access to the front two plugs. Other than completely removing the A/C unit, any ideas on working around this thing to pull those plugs?

Is your ignition shielding on?

Yes it is on. I had the distributor and coil part of it off last night when I worked on it, but the shields going down the side were still on.

I ask this because there is a very simple thing you can do to check your wires but you have to be able to see them. In the dark with your engine running look for flashes of spark from the wires. Move the wires some just in case there is a bare spot in full contact with a bracket or something in which case it may not make much of a flash. They might be jumping from along the wire someplace to ground or to each other. This would indicate bad insulation on the wires. Also you may see spark jumping down the side of a spark plug to the engine which would indicate that plug is not firing. Spark takes the easiest path to ground. Of course, a wire could be broken internally and not fire the plug or leak to the outside.

I'll have to check that out and see if I can see that. Just so I'm clear, a wire that is broken internally and will not fire a plug will leak to the outside or COULD leak to the outside? In other words, it may or may not show any signs of problems and be totally random?

Cleaning or replacing the plugs should correct the spark jumping down the side of the plug but if the wires are leaking along their length then they need to be replaced.

You can buy plastic plug boot pliers at auto parts stores so you can pull wires with the engine running without doing an involuntary coil test each time you touch one. If all of the plugs are sooty and fouled to some degree you may have intermintent miss at each one and not see a big difference when removing wires one at a time.

First I'd clean or change out the plugs. Then check the wires. Cleaning the plugs may be all it needs.

Tom

If I can figure out how to get to the front two plugs around the A/C unit I'll head down the route of cleaning all of the plugs - guess its the next logical since I cleaned the distributor.

I know I'm close and now that I have a little better understanding of the fuel mix - that each needle adjusts the amount of fuel per venturi or barrel - that will just help me as far as making adjustments from there. Along these lines, if I make these adjustments and still get smoke, is that a sign of too much fuel or too little fuel in these mixes? I'm assuming too much considering the fact that when I leaned these in that smoke stopped - right?

I do appreciate the time you spent Tom and outwest! I greatly appreciate the help! I think I'm almost there. If I can get her to run smooth my next major thing is getting the tail seal on the transmission replaced or fixed - last time I had it worked on the transmission fluid drained, after it was all put back together and fluid replaced the tail seal on the transmission leaked almost all the fluid out. Hopefully that won't be a major struggle.

Thanks again!
PD2

 

[Tom Bryant]

Yes. Both mixture screws will be about the same.

From the Paragon catalog here is the lower choke tube that is inside the exhaust manifold. You can see that the ends are swedged to make an interference fit when pressed into place in the manifold. If yours is loose in the manifold It will probably need replaced. It may have been the wrong size when installed if it's not original.

Here is the upper tube for a 327/250.

The end without the fitting fits inside of the tube in the manifold. A light just came on. Lets be sure I understand what you are saying about the exhaust blowing out around the tube at the manifold.

Is it coming out between the lower tube and the cast iron or is it coming out between the two choke tubes where they slip together? You could take the top tube off and see if you get exhaust blowing out of the lower tube. There should be nothing exiting there under pressure. If there is the lower tube is burned through.

It sounds like the plugs and wires are fairly new but I would still give them a cleaning to see if that helps. Plugs on these cars are much easier to change from underneath. Especially the ones under the A/C compressor. While you are at it double check that the wires are installed in order.

Firing order 18436572
Drivers side front to back 1357
Passenger side front to back 2468

Yes, a bad plug wire could just cause a misfire without other visible symtoms. Radio supression wire that these cars use is carbon core and they do go bad. I doubt if that is your problem since they are nearly new. If you have a timing light with the induction pickup that clamps over the #1 wire to feed a signal to the light you can use this to check all of your wires. Just move the induction pickup clamp from one wire to the next and pull the trigger. Watch for a steady flash from your light. I also have a little plug wire tester that I picked up at an auto parts store years ago for a couple of bucks. It is about the size of a short pen with a flat hook on the end. There is a small neon tube in the handle and you just hook the hook on one wire at a time and the neon will flash from induction.

Tom

 

[JohnZ]

AH! OK. So when I richen them out or lean them in these needles will probably be about equal then, right?

The tube is brand new and not old or anything so I'm not too worries about rust and burn through on it. I'll have to try to remove the exhaust tube from the choke body and see if I have exhaust coming up from there. I do have exhaust/hot air coming from around the tube in the manifold. What is the best way to seal this off around the tube in the manifold?




No. getting to the plugs on the driver side is going to be fairly simple, but the passenger side has the air conditioning unit that is blocking access to the front two plugs. Other than completely removing the A/C unit, any ideas on working around this thing to pull those plugs?


I know I'm close and now that I have a little better understanding of the fuel mix - that each needle adjusts the amount of fuel per venturi or barrel - that will just help me as far as making adjustments from there. Along these lines, if I make these adjustments and still get smoke, is that a sign of too much fuel or too little fuel in these mixes? I'm assuming too much considering the fact that when I leaned these in that smoke stopped - right?

If I can get her to run smooth my next major thing is getting the tail seal on the transmission replaced or fixed - last time I had it worked on the transmission fluid drained, after it was all put back together and fluid replaced the tail seal on the transmission leaked almost all the fluid out. Hopefully that won't be a major struggle.

Thanks again!
PD2

You adjust the idle mixture with a vacuum gauge - connect it to a full manifold vacuum source and adjust the idle mixture screws alternately, about 1/8-turn at a time, to achieve highest steady vacuum at normal idle.

Photo below of the stainless steel choke hot air tube inside the exhaust manifold - it's installed from the bottom up, and is staked in place at the bottom (Paragon has replacements). The separate upper tube that goes to the choke housing is a slip-fit into the top end of the hole in the exhaust manifold.

The easiest way to get at the spark plugs below the A/C compressor is to pull the right front wheel and go through the hole in the inner fender where the dust shield flap is.

The rear seal on the tailhousing is easy to replace once you remove the driveshaft; be sure and use a sealant on the O.D. of the metal part of the seal where it fits into the recess in the casting. If it still leaks after you replace the seal, you may have a worn bronze bushing inside the housing; the transmission has to come out to replace it.

 

[PD2]

Yes. Both mixture screws will be about the same.

From the Paragon catalog here is the lower choke tube that is inside the exhaust manifold. You can see that the ends are swedged to make an interference fit when pressed into place in the manifold. If yours is loose in the manifold It will probably need replaced. It may have been the wrong size when installed if it's not original.

Here is the upper tube for a 327/250.

The end without the fitting fits inside of the tube in the manifold. A light just came on. Lets be sure I understand what you are saying about the exhaust blowing out around the tube at the manifold.

Is it coming out between the lower tube and the cast iron or is it coming out between the two choke tubes where they slip together? You could take the top tube off and see if you get exhaust blowing out of the lower tube. There should be nothing exiting there under pressure. If there is the lower tube is burned through.

Excuse my ignorance with some of these parts - I did not realize that there were two tubes - upper and lower. I thought it was all one tube. In that case, with the upper tube installed into the lower - assuming it is installed into the lower - I'm getting hot air exhaust coming around where the upper tube goes into the exhaust casting - I'm not sure if the upper and lower tubes are connected. It sounds like I need to remove the upper and check to see if there is even a lower - there might not be for all I know. But even if I figure this out does that have anything to do with the rough idle situation? Could an exhaust leak like this cause it to rough idle? I'll add this to my list of things to look into and fix since it does need to be addressed, but just wondering if it helps to diagnosis the issue here.

It sounds like the plugs and wires are fairly new but I would still give them a cleaning to see if that helps. Plugs on these cars are much easier to change from underneath. Especially the ones under the A/C compressor. While you are at it double check that the wires are installed in order.

Firing order 18436572
Drivers side front to back 1357
Passenger side front to back 2468

Yes, a bad plug wire could just cause a misfire without other visible symtoms. Radio supression wire that these cars use is carbon core and they do go bad. I doubt if that is your problem since they are nearly new. If you have a timing light with the induction pickup that clamps over the #1 wire to feed a signal to the light you can use this to check all of your wires. Just move the induction pickup clamp from one wire to the next and pull the trigger. Watch for a steady flash from your light. I also have a little plug wire tester that I picked up at an auto parts store years ago for a couple of bucks. It is about the size of a short pen with a flat hook on the end. There is a small neon tube in the handle and you just hook the hook on one wire at a time and the neon will flash from induction.

Tom

I thought about the firing order and proper plug installation - I'll check that too just to make sure that they are going where they are supposed to be going.

I have talked about checking the timing, but I do not have a light (and again, please excuse my ignorance here guys) and I don't even know how to use one. Sad, I know, but I just have never dealt with these issues on my 300HP car. This 250HP was inherited from my father-in-law and has been a problem child since we got it! That's why the guy that used to help me work on it stopped working on it - well, that, and he is predominantly a restorer and a Ford guy and had a little contempt for Chevy. At any rate, I'm left trying to get this thing running with little to no knowledge of how the heck these cars run. The last time I worked on cars was in high school and most of it was big block racing stuff that was already setup - just drop it in and run. Never really had to figure out issue like this so its making it a bit hard for me, but I am bound and determined to figure this out and get it running right.

Thanks again for the input and help!
PD2

 

[PD2]

You adjust the idle mixture with a vacuum gauge - connect it to a full manifold vacuum source and adjust the idle mixture screws alternately, about 1/8-turn at a time, to achieve highest steady vacuum at normal idle.

Photo below of the stainless steel choke hot air tube inside the exhaust manifold - it's installed from the bottom up, and is staked in place at the bottom (Paragon has replacements). The separate upper tube that goes to the choke housing is a slip-fit into the top end of the hole in the exhaust manifold.

The easiest way to get at the spark plugs below the A/C compressor is to pull the right front wheel and go through the hole in the inner fender where the dust shield flap is.

The rear seal on the tailhousing is easy to replace once you remove the driveshaft; be sure and use a sealant on the O.D. of the metal part of the seal where it fits into the recess in the casting. If it still leaks after you replace the seal, you may have a worn bronze bushing inside the housing; the transmission has to come out to replace it.

Hi John!

Yes, I did read in the shop manual that you are supposed to have vacuum gauges and a tachometer when making the mix adjustments. The unfortunate thing is that I do not have those and even if I did I'm not sure how to use it unless someone shows me step by step. So just like tuning a 2-cycle or 4-cycle motor, I've been trying to tune it be ear/sound without all those guages.

Thanks for the pic of the tube in the exhaust manifold that makes sense what Tom was saying about it going through the casting and not into the casting. When I jack the front up to get to the spark plugs I'll take a look at the bottom side of the tube to see if that thing is even in there. Like I said, the tube might just be missing completely and the upper tuber is the only thing going into the casting. But again, fixing this...will it address the rough idle?

Taking the wheel off on this car is going to be a bit tougher than on my 300HP - this car has knock-off wheels and I have NO tools, not even the brass hammer, to take these wheels off. I'd need to get that nice tool - not even sure if they have any of those around as I have not seen them advertised in Vette Vues in a long time - to get that wheel off. Then there is the concern of whether or not I torqued it enough to keep the wheel on so it does not come flying off. I'll just try to jack the car up in front and work on it from under the car as best as possible.

And thanks for the input on the transmission tail seal. Sounds simple, but I'm almost tempted to take it to a good transmission guy and let him do it so that if the transmission does have to come off he will have everything there and ready to do it.

Thanks again for all the help!
PD2

 

[JohnZ]

Taking the wheel off on this car is going to be a bit tougher than on my 300HP - this car has knock-off wheels and I have NO tools, not even the brass hammer, to take these wheels off. I'd need to get that nice tool - not even sure if they have any of those around as I have not seen them advertised in Vette Vues in a long time - to get that wheel off. Then there is the concern of whether or not I torqued it enough to keep the wheel on so it does not come flying off. I'll just try to jack the car up in front and work on it from under the car as best as possible.

Forget the tool - what you need is a quality BIG lead hammer; Google "Muther-Thumper" and order one of those - the little one that comes with the car is for a one-time roadside emergency.

Before you attempt to remove the wheel, you'll need to remove the decorative emblem in the center of the spinner to determine if it has a removable safety pin in the threads (genuine GM wheels don't, but most reproductions do); if so, you have to remove the pin before the spinner will unscrew. You can use a tiny screwdriver to remove the emblem, or Long Island Corvette Supply has a suction-cup tool that's a lot easier and won't damage the emblem.

If the adapters are correctly installed, the right (passenger) side spinners have left-hand threads, so the spinners will have to be turned CLOCKWISE to remove them; just whack them as hard as you can with the BIG lead hammer - it won't hurt the chrome.

Photo below shows what you should see when you get the wheel off - you may see either "long" lug nuts like in the photo, or regular short ones. The back of the wheel has five small holes, and five large holes - the small holes are for the drive pins on the adapter, and the large holes are clearance holes for the lug nuts. The long nuts will prevent putting the wheel on wrong, but if you have the regular lug nuts, make SURE you have the wheel indexed so the drive pins go in the small holes and the studs with the lug nuts go in the large holes. Then whack the spinner a couple of times to seat it, and wait until the wheel is back on the ground before you whack it six or seven more times to get the spinner good and tight. If it has a safety pin, keep whacking the spinner to align a pair of slots to accept the pin; do NOT "back it off a little" to align a pair of pin slots. The adapter threads in the photo have the slots for the pin, and so will the spinner.

If you're short on tools and mechanical experience, you might consider connecting with a local Corvette club or your nearest NCRS chapter to get some help with your project from folks who've "been there, done that" before and can assist you hands-on.

 

[PD2]

Forget the tool - what you need is a quality BIG lead hammer; Google "Muther-Thumper" and order one of those - the little one that comes with the car is for a one-time roadside emergency.

Before you attempt to remove the wheel, you'll need to remove the decorative emblem in the center of the spinner to determine if it has a removable safety pin in the threads (genuine GM wheels don't, but most reproductions do); if so, you have to remove the pin before the spinner will unscrew. You can use a tiny screwdriver to remove the emblem, or Long Island Corvette Supply has a suction-cup tool that's a lot easier and won't damage the emblem.

If the adapters are correctly installed, the right (passenger) side spinners have left-hand threads, so the spinners will have to be turned CLOCKWISE to remove them; just whack them as hard as you can with the BIG lead hammer - it won't hurt the chrome.

Photo below shows what you should see when you get the wheel off - you may see either "long" lug nuts like in the photo, or regular short ones. The back of the wheel has five small holes, and five large holes - the small holes are for the drive pins on the adapter, and the large holes are clearance holes for the lug nuts. The long nuts will prevent putting the wheel on wrong, but if you have the regular lug nuts, make SURE you have the wheel indexed so the drive pins go in the small holes and the studs with the lug nuts go in the large holes. Then whack the spinner a couple of times to seat it, and wait until the wheel is back on the ground before you whack it six or seven more times to get the spinner good and tight. If it has a safety pin, keep whacking the spinner to align a pair of slots to accept the pin; do NOT "back it off a little" to align a pair of pin slots. The adapter threads in the photo have the slots for the pin, and so will the spinner.

If you're short on tools and mechanical experience, you might consider connecting with a local Corvette club or your nearest NCRS chapter to get some help with your project from folks who've "been there, done that" before and can assist you hands-on.

Thanks for the help and info John! I really appreciate it! I'll see if I can find both the hammer and the suction cup device. I think these are the original Chevy knock-offs and not aftermarkets as I do not recall there being a pin when we took the wheels off back when my father-in-law was still alive.

As for a source, I tell you, HE was the man for the source. But there again, the problem was that he did a lot and never showed me. Then as some sort of sick, twisted fate, I inherit his Vette - I had enough challenges keeping one running! At any rate, the local Corvette club, from what my FIL told me, are filled with guys that hot rod new C5/C6's and have little to no knowledge of the old cars. Maybe a local chapter of the NCRS would have someone that could help - never thought of that and will look into that.

Thanks again for the help!
PD2

 

[Roadking96]

PD2,
You check to make sure your heat riser isn't stuck shut and moves freely?
RK

 

[PD2]

PD2,
You check to make sure your heat riser isn't stuck shut and moves freely?
RK

RK,

Heat riser? You mean the manifold heat valve? I'm sorry - I'm not familiar with that term and the shop manual only shows something that is called a manifold heat valve. I think that is it. Which side would it be on and do all 327, 250HP motors come with them on the 1963 Vettes?

Looks like if that is the part that it just needs some G.M. Manifold Control Solvent - is that the same as WD-40?

Thanks for the suggestion - in reading the Chilton's manual it says that if that valve gets stuck open after the car warms up it can cause a rough idle - thanks for directing me to that one RK!

PD2

 

[Tom Bryant]

Same as manifold heat valve. All carbed engines had them.

It is on the passenger side and the only time I could see that it would cause any rough idling would be during warmup due to the carb not getting enough heat through the manifold and it might also cause the choke not to open as fast. although I doubt that since you have good choke operation. Once warmed up it should be wide open. If it's stuck closed or partially closed it will kill performance and mileage since it closes off the right side of the exhaust system. Any goo penetrant should work to get it moving freely unless it is totallt siezed. New one are available from th eCorvette catalogs like Paragon. I bought one of theirs a while for a project and it is a nice piece.

 

[PD2]

Same as manifold heat valve. All carbed engines had them.

It is on the passenger side and the only time I could see that it would cause any rough idling would be during warmup due to the carb not getting enough heat through the manifold and it might also cause the choke not to open as fast. although I doubt that since you have good choke operation. Once warmed up it should be wide open. If it's stuck closed or partially closed it will kill performance and mileage since it closes off the right side of the exhaust system. Any goo penetrant should work to get it moving freely unless it is totallt siezed. New one are available from th eCorvette catalogs like Paragon. I bought one of theirs a while for a project and it is a nice piece.

Awesome! OK. I'll check that when I jack the car up to have a look at the spark plugs. I hope to get to these items this weekend, but we'll see.

Thanks again for the help guys!
PD2

 

[PD2]

Success!

Well, I believe outwest nailed it on the first post! Fouled plugs! Pulled all the plugs today and about 6 out of 8 were carbon fouled up! Went through all of them cleaning them really good and checking the gaps accordingly. After that, I double-checked the heat riser and lubed it with WD-40. It appeared to be free, but squeaked when I moved it open and closed. After lubing it there was no more squeak.

After I dropped the car down I went top side and checked the choke heat tube - seems that it came loose from the lower half so I made sure to secure it better into the lower tube in the exhaust manifold. After that, I went around the intake manifold making sure the bolts were tight and then tightened down the value covers.

Cranked her up and instantly could tell a HUGE difference! Fast idle went up to 2000 RPM! I had to make an adjustment to the fast idel set screw of course. After the car warmed up and hit the throttle to let it come down to normal idle and the roughness was GONE! What a huge difference! I don't think I have EVER heard this car run as good as it is running now. I did some tuning on the mix needles as I was still getting a little puff of smoke when I rev'ed up the car at WOT. But no back fire and it settles down to a nice calm idle now! No high lift cam action - just normal 327 running sound! In fact, that popping I kept hearing on the passengers side is gone too! Not sure which part of what I did fixed that, but looks like I cleared that up!

Now, one new question - for the 327, 250HP motor, I read in the shop manual that the plugs should be type 44's. It appears that the guy who worked on my Vette before me installed R45S AC Delco's. Are the 45's hotter or colder than the 44's? I hope hotter. If they are colder then that may explain the little puff of smoke I get - its not burning the fuel right. Of course that could be the Ethanol in the gas that they are putting in all blends of Unleaded now.

Next step for me is that rear transmission seal - I know that JohnZ said that it should be easy once the driveshaft is removed, but how hard is it to remove the driveshaft? I may just fill the transmission up and drive it over to a transmission shop and let them do it so that way if it is the bronze bushing inside they can knock it out while its up on the rack.

I can't thank you guys enough for your support and help! I really do appreciate it! It helped a ton!!

PD2

 

[Tom Bryant]

That's good news. The car should be a lot more enjoyable now.

The higher the number the hotter the plug. The AC44 is a little cold for all around driving. The 45 is much better, especially the 45S. The S designates an extended electrode. This type of plug will stay cleaner since it isn't shrouded by the plug shell.

There are 2 straps or u bolts (not sure which on a C2) that hold the rear u-joint into the differential yoke. Remove them and wrap some tape around the u-joint so that the bearing caps don't fall off and scatter needle bearings everywhere. Then slip the driveshaft forward (a large screwdriver or a pry bar might be necessary to unseat the u-joint from the yoke) enough to clear the rear yoke and drop the rear of the driveshaft down. Now slip it rearward slipping the front yoke out of the trans tailhousing. The seal is a press fit into the rear of the tailhousing but the tailhousing has to be removed to replace the bushing since the output shaft will be in the way otherwise.

Tom