Catalytic Converter

[ramrod]

I have a 93' Automatic ...what are the issues involved in removal of the Catalytic converter(s).

I'm getting an ECM code #32 ....may be the EGR switch, however, if I find the cats are bad, I was wondering if they can be safely ( except for environ. of course ) removed. I live in VA and there is no mandatory SMOG test on vehicles.

Thanks.

 

[Eagle85C4]

State law does not matter in this situation, it is a federal law that says you have to have them. If you get caught without it the fine could buy you another vette...

Section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act, 42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3),
prohibits parties named in the statute from tampering with
emission control systems on motor vehicles and prohibits any
person from causing tampering. Specifically, section 203(a)(3)
prohibits vehicle manufacturers, dealerships, service and repair
facilities and fleet operators from removing or rendering
inoperative any emission control device or element of design
installed on or in a motor vehicle. In addition, section 203(a)
prohibits any person from causing such tampering. Tampering with
emission controls can include removing, disabling or destroying a
part of the emission control system, or installing an incorrect
or ineffective part in or on any motor vehicle designed to meet
Federal or California emissions standards. The installation of a
new OE converter identical to that with which the vehicle was
originally manufactured would not be a violation of the Act.
Federal law
prohibits repair businesses from replacing these devices except
under certain limited circumstances.
SEC. 205. CIVIL PENALTIES.
(a) Violations.- Any person who violates sections 203(a)(1),
203(a)(4), or 203(a)(5) or any manufacturer or dealer who
violates section 203(a)(3)(A) shall be subject to a civil penalty
of not more than $25,000. Any person otherthan a manufacturer or
dealer who violates section 203(a)(3)(A) or any person who
violates section 203(a)(3)(B) shall be subject to a civil penalty
of not more than $2,500. Any such violation with respect to
paragraph (1),(3)(A), or (4) of section 203(a) shall constitute a
separate offense with respect to each motor vehicle or motor
vehicle engine. Any such violation with respect to section
203(a)(3)(B) shall constitute a separate offense with respect to
each part or component. Any person who violates section 203(a)(2)
shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $25,000 per
day of violation.

 

[ramrod]

Thanks for info ...OK ...how about recommendations for higher flow Cats ...I have heard that FLP makes a good product.

 

[Eagle85C4]

reread post....can you afford 25,000.00 a day to run without a converter?????

I bought my high flow cats from Mid-America when I changed complete system to stainless....

 

[ramrod]

Point taken ...I was not aware this was a Federal law ....I shall use cats if I must replace ....just looking for the best route to take. I could always go stock, however, I was interested in others experiences with alternate higher flow cats.

Thanks again for info.

 

[Eagle85C4]

The clean air act says that the car must have over 50k miles on it before cat can be replaced unless...and there are some reasons.
Don't get me wrong my friend I was not coming down on you...just trying to save you a large headache....

Many places now offer high flow cats...just depends what you want to pay and what performance you want...I know TPIS does sell some high flow cats but they are pricey...so I got mine at Mid-AM for 149.00 to go with complete stainless system. Changed from 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 abd went with Borla catback with dual 3" outlets...all told it ran a grand. Good Luck on your search...

 

[CKA_Racing]

I live in VA and there is no mandatory SMOG test on vehicles.

Thanks.

:confused

By SMOG test i'm assuming you mean emission test?
That's odd. I need to have my vette emission tested this month. The DMV will not renew my registration if i don't.

Regardless, even for vehicle inspection. They can fail you if missing the cats. The Random Technology cats are way cheaper then oem replacements. TPIS has good prices on the Random cats.
They are direct replacement units for you LT1 assuming you are stock. Since you have a complete stock exhaust, resonace is not a concern with the high flow cats. TPIS, More Performace, all have the pricing listed for Random tech cats.

 

[ramrod]

CKA Racing ....I agree ...Odd since I have lived in Tidewater VA for 30 years and NEVER even been asked a QUESTION regarding emissions much less ever seen any type of emissions test performed!

I dont mind having cats ...just that if I must replace, then I would like to go with whatever might give me some measure of extra performance without setting of the dreaded "SES" codes ...

I saw some Engineering University study of Cats on web a few days ago that rated FLP cats at the top.

Rod.

 

[swoosh]

Mr. Eagle, What website or where's the source that you were able to get that information on the Clean air act. I would like to read some more about that law. Thanks

 

[*89x2*]

here is the link for random technology high flow catalytic convertors http://www.randomtechnology.com/chevrolet.html

The Emissions systems are still inspected in your area (Eastern VA) through the annual inspection and if you did not have a cat, it would not get the windshield decal.

CKA_Racing - Emissions testing every 2 years for plate decals is a Ffx, Prince Wm., Loudon, Manassas city/park, vienna, clifton, ffx city, arl, & City of alex. requirement. Stafford South you don't need it to get tags

 

[Shark Chief]

Ramrod I have an 81 camaro, and recently had it smogged. It did not pass. So they replaced EGR valve and CAT, it was such a pain in butt and cost me $530. The smog person told me that California is making the smog harder to pass for old cars to pass, and lowered the maximum emissions. To me it seem that Californian Law makers are trying to get rid of the old cars, so people are forced to buy new ones. Thank god I don't have to smog my Vette, what a relief.

 

[CKA_Racing]

CKA Racing ....I agree ...Odd since I have lived in Tidewater VA for 30 years and NEVER even been asked a QUESTION regarding emissions much less ever seen any type of emissions test performed!

I dont mind having cats ...just that if I must replace, then I would like to go with whatever might give me some measure of extra performance without setting of the dreaded "SES" codes ...

I saw some Engineering University study of Cats on web a few days ago that rated FLP cats at the top.

Rod.

I need to move down by you.. :L

 

[Eagle85C4]

The Clean Air Act can be found at www.epa.gov the particular section quoted was Section 203 subpart a and Section 205

 

[Redbob]

Sure your cats can be removed (when was the last time you saw a federal policeman?) but your car might not run very well since you don't have a mass airflow meter, and removing the cats will enormously increase the gasflow in the exhaust and the airflow through your engine.
You'd need a new custom PROM.
Should be good for 15 more horsepower.

And your car will still be running cleaner than 90% of the other cars on the road!

 

[LOUVETTE]

mass airflow

what years have the mass air flow compared to the other one whatever it is called.......my 89 i guess has mass air flow.......i was putting cat back exaust on it when i saw someone had gutted the cat................i supose this wont effect the way mine runs if i have mass air flow??????? doesnt seem too......when i get some cash im gonna put a cat on it.....like things the way they are suposed to be.....emissions testing or not....so will a free flow exhaust like on mine 89 effect the way it runs cause after i put on the free flow exhaust a week later it started running bad.....thanks

 

[Redbob]

Re: mass airflow

what years have the mass air flow compared to the other one whatever it is called.......my 89 i guess has mass air flow.......i was putting cat back exaust on it when i saw someone had gutted the cat................i supose this wont effect the way mine runs if i have mass air flow??????? doesnt seem too......when i get some cash im gonna put a cat on it.....like things the way they are suposed to be.....emissions testing or not....so will a free flow exhaust like on mine 89 effect the way it runs cause after i put on the free flow exhaust a week later it started running bad.....thanks

The "other" computerized engine control system is called a "speed-density" system: it looks at engine RPM, manifold absolute pressure, barometric pressure, etc., and "guesses" at the amount of fuel required based on a "map" stored in the computer.
Speed-density works fine as long as you have made ZERO mods to your engine, and as long as the engine itself doesn't change over time. On the plus side, not having an airflow meter in the intake means a speed-density system flows more air.

The only effect a less-restrictive exhaust will have on your L98-equipped '89 will be more horsepower. Power loss due to the exhaust on an L98 is on the order of 30 - 35 HP, with about half of that coming from the catalyst backpressure - which your car no longer has!
A properly-designed system in your car will get about 20 - 25 of those lost horsepower back.
And in answer to your last question: no, putting on a free-flow exhaust shouldn't make your car run bad - except that you may have reached the point where there's no longer enough heat to get the EGO sensor (Lambda sensor, O2 sensor) on your exhaust pipe hot enough to start sending a signal to the ECM. So the engine thinks it's always cold, and runs rich, as in cold-start mode.

Solution to this, if this IS the problem - and there are lots of other possible causes for poor running - is to get a "HEGO" or "heated-EGO" sensor, one of the 3-wire sensors from Bosch, and wire it in per the package instructions, giving it 12V while the engine is running.

Regards,
R

PS: First C4's I know of that had Speed-Density engines were the '91 and later LT1's. Just after Ford had realized what a huge mistake S-D was on their Mustang GT's, and converted to Mass-Air, GM cleverly went to speed-density, for a few years, anyway.