Question: Crate engine advice

[Koop]

You're probably right about it being more than $1500 more for the LS3 than the ZZ383. I hadn't considered reusing the pulleys from my 350 on the 383. My stock computer controlled carb probably would not work, but maybe it would. Dollar per horsepower, the ZZ4 is hands-down the best option. I could probably get it all in for under $10k including upgrading the transmission and diff. That is far under my 16k guesstimate for the LS3 and all the goodies.

I hate being rational. Someone talk me back into the LS3 before I change my mind for good.

We tried the pullies from my L48 on the ZZ383, they wouldn't keep the belts on when I let out the 460lbs of torque. They were changed out with deep groove pullies. Your car may already have them.

For me, my Vette is a permanent fixture so I have to be rational and keep it simple.

Many of the members here have the time and the know how to go nuts with this stuff, unfortunately I don't.

 

[coffeejolts]

For me, my Vette is a permanent fixture so I have to be rational and keep it simple.

Mine is more or less a permanent part of the household. I've had the car for 11 years, which is the longest I've ever owned a vehicle. I can't see ever parting with it. But, it is very disheartening to have this beautiful car that looks like it is going 100 MPH standing still- and yet know that the V6 accord next to me at the stop light could easily leave my vette in the dust while hauling a full load of groceries. I don't expect my vette to ever be the fastest thing on the road, but I don't want to be smoked by grocery-getters either.

 

[Koop]

I hear ya!

 

[Evolution1980]

My thoughts: Go with a ZZ4 and a 700R4 transmission. The ZZ4 has plenty of grunt and the OD tranny has a great first gear. Between those two, you'll see a completely different car emerge from the shop. Evolution80 has that combo and he really likes it.

Yep, I have the ZZ4 and the 700R4 trans. And an aftermarket hood. However...I believe (but could be wrong) that that stock hood will clear the engine with a drop base air cleaner assm. I don't know about how it mates up with the OEM snorkel setup, but I will say with a fair amount of confidence that for as ugly as the OEM air snorkel setup looks, it's performance is better than simply having an open-element air filter on top of the engine.
Also, if you aren't going to keep your computer controlled '81 carb, find a 1980 Q-Jet and have it rejetted. It will work just fine for anything you will throw at it.

And yes, the ZZ4 will definitely be a smile-inducer. My current engine/trans combo has my 1/4 mile in the low 13's which will keep you up with most ricers out there, even the newer ones off the showroom floor.
However, I do wish now that I had the ZZ383 and a manual trans. But then again, I have a "need for speed" and on occasion will go full-tilt-boogie down the highway burying the needle past 140mph.
Plus, it only took one loss for me to starting thinking, "Damn, if only I had that 383 instead..." :L

With regards to tire selection, if you're keeping your stock rims, you don't have to worry about getting tires that are too sticky since they really don't make "performance/sticky" tires in the OEM tire size anymore. BFG T/A Radials are NOT performance tires.

 

[coffeejolts]

However, I do wish now that I had the ZZ383 and a manual trans. But then again, I have a "need for speed" and on occasion will go full-tilt-boogie down the highway burying the needle past 140mph.
Plus, it only took one loss for me to starting thinking, "Damn, if only I had that 383 instead..."

See- that's what pushes me towards going full-tilt and putting in the LS3. I don't want to spend all this money and then think "I should have just gone up to the next level for a few thousand more". It's cheaper in the long run to just buy what I want the first time and be done with it. My line in the sand is cutting, because cutting can't be undone. I don't think there is any way to switch from auto to manual without cutting a hole for the clutch pedal, is there?

Now you see why I plan things so far ahead of time. It gives me time to change my mind a million times until I am certain that I'm doing the best thing.

BTW- you have guts to drive that fast, especially in Ohio. I was once pulled over on the turnpike for having a crooked license plate (not the vette).

 

[Evolution1980]

See- that's what pushes me towards going full-tilt and putting in the LS3. I don't want to spend all this money and then think "I should have just gone up to the next level for a few thousand more". It's cheaper in the long run to just buy what I want the first time and be done with it.

Yeah, but here's the kicker...you're never "done with it". Once you get accustomed to the speed/power/whatever, then you'll want something "just a little faster". And the cycle repeats until one of two things run out: your money or your wife. :L

"Can you be satisfied with _____?" is the question.

Going from the old L81 to almost anything new is going to be an improvement. Anything you can do to the ZZ383 you can do to the LS3.
I'm (jokingly) "anti-computer", so I prefer the ZZ383. Also, in my somewhat-educated opinion, long term modifications of an LS3 will cost more than the ZZ383 due to cost of parts and tuning sessions. ECM tuning get rather pricey!

(Retro)fitting a manual trans into the car isn't anything new. Plenty of people have done it which should mean plenty of technical write-ups available. Since our cars were conceived with the option for a manual (C3's in general), it's not too much modification to add it.
If I had future-sight when I was deciding on the trans, I would've saved my pennies for another year and gotten a manual instead of the 700R4. When I had to rebuild the 700R4, the total cost ended up being the difference between it and a manual in the first place. :eyerole

 

[Art Jett]

Yeah, but here's the kicker...you're never "done with it". Once you get accustomed to the speed/power/whatever, then you'll want something "just a little faster". And the cycle repeats until one of two things run out: your money or your wife. :L

"Can you be satisfied with _____?" is the question.

You got that right!! I have a FI 383 in mine along with a bunch of other custom work and I'm already getting ready to swap a perfectly good hood out for an L-88 in about a month. Probably the next thing will be a B&M shifter and possibly a Paxton supercharger or something like that. My wife has already accepted the fact that "I'll never be done with it." Every man has to have somewhere to throw his money away, right?
Andre is right about tuning costs too. My tuner charges $100.00 per hour.

 

[Koop]

Don't forget, with more go power comes the need for more stopping power. When I put in the ZZ383 I drove the car for a few months, took it back to the shop and upgraded my non-power standard brakes (they were stainless calipers) to power with Hawk pads because the car just couldn't stop well enough with the new added power. I could be wrong here, but I think if I upped the power some more I'd need some bigger brakes. Of course with bigger brakes I'd need bigger wheels and tires so they'd fit in there. So putting in more power than I currently have = $3,000 - $5,000 for more stopping power when you figure in a cool set of wheels, some PS2's or the equivalent, rotors, calipers, pads, steel braided lines and a crap load of labor etc...

Bottom line is I'd prefer an LS(anything) in the car, but not because I'm not happy with the ZZ383. Since I drive an LS6 daily, it really makes the time warp very apparent when I drive the old Vette. In comparison of the old vs. new technology, the brakes are crap, the motor is inconsistent and the handling is frightening when compared to the modern car. All of these things do add up to the whole 1969 Corvette driving experience though. Don't take this as a complaint, it's not, those are just the facts. I'm sure you'd love an LS motor, the ZZ383 is old school and it's plenty of fun!

As far as the Trans goes, I like the auto in my Vette and don't want a stick in that car. The 6spd in the daily driver is enough.

It's mostly a question of money.

 

[baxsom]

go for broke zz454 and FAST EFI.

 

[Evolution1980]

go for broke zz454 and FAST EFI.

That's going to require more than simply "plug & play". Gonna need to update front suspension to handle the increased weight of the 454 block and likely need to upgrade his cooling system.

 

[coffeejolts]

I'd consider a big block if it was aluminum, because it would probably weigh about the same as the stock small block does. Only problem is that I don't see many aluminum big blocks on the market.

 

[Evolution1980]

i'd consider a big block if it was aluminum, because it would probably weigh about the same as the stock small block does. Only problem is that i don't see many aluminum big blocks on the market.

$$$$$$$$$:W

 

[coffeejolts]

Yeah- you aren't kidding. The ZL1 remake is $25,000 on crate engine depot.