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Detailing rookie, Help please!

Joined
May 4, 2004
Messages
405
Location
Mt. Vernon,NY,USA
Corvette
1990 Bk/Gy ZR-1, #2233
Hi All, I need help! I have a 90 w/9400 miles, one owner, always garaged, black. I'm asking if I understand the correct proceedure from reading this section. Oh the car is still garaged & not a daily driver. Do I understand the sequence of steps correctly???
1) wash with car soap. 2) clay all hard & painted surfaces, don't do rubber & textured moldings with clay. 3) re-wash and examine with baggie. If smooth, enough clay. If not smooth then re-clay? 4) look for scratches &/or swirls. If present use least abrasive first then go up abrasive scale??? 5) If no scratches &/or swirls, I'm lucky & happy, I should use a polymer polish to protect paint?? 6) I then apply a carnuaba type wax to give protection to polish??? See this is where I get confused, after clay(is there a specific type?) I know I have to protect the paint, so use polish??? What do I protect the polish with, wax right?? Oh, previous owner used car wash soap & rain dance, he said car stayed in garage so he felt it was enough. I just didn't keep up with changes in car care tech to feel that I know what to do with this car. I never thought I would ever get another shot at owning a vette. Thanks for your help & sorry for long winded post. Tom:confused I forgot I also want to know what to use on B/N chrome wheels?
 
Hey Tom,

Your list sounds pretty good. I would suggest you feel the paint by hand or with a baggie while you are claying. This way you can do extra on areas that need extra, and less on areas that need less. The whole car won't have a uniform layer of embedded/surface contaminants. You don't have to wash the car to feel it. The surface will still be clean after claying, you can carefully touch it.

I would suggest you do some kind of polish/cleaner step if it's been a while. This will remove light staining, oxidation, etc that is probably dulling the finish slightly. If you have swirls, then a swirl remover will perform a similar function. If no swirls, I'd suggest a chemical-type cleaner like Mothers or Meguiar's Step 1 products (or there are other products like this too).

A synthetic wax or polymer will provide protection. They generally are not polishes, but actually protectants. Zaino's "polish" name is a bit of a misnomer as it is actually a protectant. I suppose it qualifies for some definition of "polish" in that it makes the surface shinier. But in typical paint speak, a polish is something with corrective action.

You can use a carnauba wax over a polymer if you want, but you should give the polymer at least 24 hours to cure/set up properly. Or you can just use a carnauba after the polishing step if you prefer this type of product.

So I'd say do something along the lines of this:

1) Wash with car wash
2) Clay
3a) If swirls, use a swirl remover, i.e. an abrasive polish
3b) If no swirls, use a cleaner, i.e. a chemical polish
4) Protect your car with a synthetic or carnauba wax

Note that after step 3, if you intend to apply Zaino, they advise to wash the car first. So I would suggest you wash the car with Z7 wash after step 3a or 3b. There would be no need for Dawn. Regular car wash will easily strip away any polishing oils left behind on the paint. There will be no wax to remove as your 3a/b step would make short work of them (and clay would probably remove a lot/all of it too). Hope that helps. :w
 
I'm not sure what B/N means in relation to chrome. But for regular chrome wheels, I'd suggest using a chrome polish. They will typically have protection in them as well as cleaning it.
 
Hi Aurora, Thanks for your help!

Thanks for defining polish. I was big time confused by the "polish" name attached to various prods. I mean I am not saying anything against any Mfg., rather my lack of knowledge was confusing me! I think I get it now.
1) wash 2) clay till smooth 3) cleaner for oxidation 3a) swirl & scratch cleaner if needed 4) apply some form of paint protectant 5) carnauba wax after protectant cures if desired 6) detail spray after washing to revive shine? or Calif. duster & detail spray to revive shine? 7) be happy & drive car!
Oh, sorry about B/N = brand new. I bought new wheels to save my OE tires & wheels intact for later. Don't ask why... I never had an unmolested vette! This one has the assembly line markings all over the chassis and suspension...I'm nuts, I know. The first vette I owned was an road race car I had to do a mech. resto on & this one is a complete car down to the spark plugs & wires. I don't want to ruin it! Thanks alot for your time & help, Tom
 
You can do the cleaner first and then a swirl remover, but a swirl remover will also remove oxidation and staining fairly well. So really you could do both or just one or the other. :)

I hear you on all those factory markings and such. I was the same way with the Aurora. It's still pretty factory, but those markings just can't contend with the driving environment... :(
 
Aurora40, Thank you again for sharing your knowledge! I figure what ever system(manufacturer) I use I'll just get both kinds of cleaners so if I need it I have it on hand. Truth be told the paint looks clear and slick and has some depth. I mean the reflections in it are almost mirror like, except for the orange peel. It looks to me like a factory paint job that has seen little use. There are no haze or scratches or swirls that I see now. I'm sure once I clay it, I will be better able to tell what the condition of the paint is. Thanks for helping me out on this, Tom.
 
Here's another little known tip......claybar the windshield. You'll be amazed. I did mine, an 88 with many years of wiper marks. I clayed it, followed with a good glass cleaner and you canNOT see any wiper marks.
Meguires has a 3 step kit that includes cleaner (step 1) a polish (step 2) and their yellow high tech wax(step 3) I like meguires because the bottles are numbered...:)

Len:w
 
Hi Len, Thank you for the tip. I was not aware of that until I started reading this section. Makes sense but I would never have thought of it on my own! So you like meguires stuff. I started looking around and it seems to me that which ever Mfg's system I use it will have to be mail order. I can't seem to find a complete system in any one store I've looked in. I kind of miss the old lacquer paints, on that stuff I sort of knew what to use. A little blue coral if it was bad and if not classic wax prods did it for my 72. This is a whole different chemical zoo to me! Thanks for sharing the knowledge, Tom.
 
nyerngaII said:
Here's another little known tip......claybar the windshield. You'll be amazed. I did mine, an 88 with many years of wiper marks. I clayed it, followed with a good glass cleaner and you canNOT see any wiper marks.
Meguires has a 3 step kit that includes cleaner (step 1) a polish (step 2) and their yellow high tech wax(step 3) I like meguires because the bottles are numbered...:)

Len:w

I guess having the Meguires bottles numbered does eliminate any confusion. Particularly after you've consumed a few bottles yourself.

Remo:cool
 
tomtom72 said:
Hi Len, Thank you for the tip. I was not aware of that until I started reading this section. Makes sense but I would never have thought of it on my own! So you like meguires stuff. I started looking around and it seems to me that which ever Mfg's system I use it will have to be mail order. I can't seem to find a complete system in any one store I've looked in. I kind of miss the old lacquer paints, on that stuff I sort of knew what to use. A little blue coral if it was bad and if not classic wax prods did it for my 72. This is a whole different chemical zoo to me! Thanks for sharing the knowledge, Tom.
You should be able to find consumer line versions of these from Meguiar's or Mothers locally. Try K-Mart/Wal-Mart/Wally World or places like Advance Auto/Pep Boys or whatever your regional version of those is (O'Reilly, Kragen, or something like that).

One thing you might find is that the Step 1 in the Meguiar's line is pretty much a chemical cleaner. I think the Mothers is similar, though I haven't used it. They will probably not do as much for swirls. But they are good cleaners.

If you decide to order up products, you may want to consider the professional lines. There are many companies that make products in the categories you are looking to buy. You might just post up real quick which you are considering before you order so you don't accidentally get two products that do the same thing, or get products that do things other than what you think they do. There is some confusing terminology out there that can throw one for a loop. :)
 
Hi Guys, Maybe Remo is right and I should drink a few bottles before I start! Aurora you are right about the # & type of products! I am trying to find a clay like in the detail dude's post, I am not sure if any local body shop supply stores would sell to a non-trade person? I am also confused about how to make sure I get all the old wax off before I clay? Or does the clay take off the old wax also? The DDude says 3M adhesive remover, some say Dawn(I never used dish soap on any car I had); I'm not sure a ploisher-cleaner would remove old wax? I have settled on a choice of a synthetic polymer as a base + a carnauba top coat for looks and car wash soap + a detailer after to help keep the look inbetween taking it all off & starting again twice a yr? I'm not even sure if my idea of the regimen is correct? I was thinking of Klasse AIO after clay, then the Klasse sealant if it can be layered a few times for protection. Then using a pre-softened carnauba over the sealant to give the finish that soft deep look. Trouble is I don't even have an idea if my 'methode' makes sense. The only thing I bought so far is Zymol cleaner & Zymol protectant for use on chrome wheels.
 
Remo said:
I guess having the Meguires bottles numbered does eliminate any confusion. Particularly after you've consumed a few bottles yourself.

Remo:cool

Well at least you didn't say it was because of age Remo...........or should I wait for your girlfriend to chime in???? ;LOL

No problem Tom......I've forgotten what auto stores there were in NY but I find mine at auto zone down here.

Len:w
 
Klasse AIO is a great cleaner product. It also is mainly chemical in nature. Klasse SG does a decent job of hiding/minimizing swirls. It's a great product though it can be finicky to use.

There are really only two suppliers of automotive clay out there. You can pick up a Mothers clay kit and get the same exact clay that Zaino sells, or get a Clay Magic kit or Meguiar's kit and get Clay Magic clay (they are both the same clay, just different lubes and packaging and bar size). A trade shop should sell you a bar of clay. You don't need to remove wax, etc before claying. The clay will work just fine. Have you waxed the car recently? Maybe if it were a very fresh coat it might affect the clay, but I doubt you'll have any problems.

I personally would never ever use 3M adhesive, tar, and wax remover on my whole car. It is pretty aggressive and is not good for plastics on the car. It also isn't great for paint, though it's ok in limited use like removing tar (it's better for the paint than the tar is). I've noticed it tends to dull the finish when used aggressively on tar. It may not dull it noticeably when you use it quickly over the whole car, but it obviously has the potential, and why take the chance.

Wash, clay, Klasse AIO, Klasse SG will definitely give you a better looking car. You may still have issues like swirls to address after, but it's still a good regimine. :)
 
Hi Aurora, Man I owe you a lot for letting me pick your brain! Okay, read you 5X5 on the 3M GPAR. I'll refrain cause the car has almost no wax left on it, previous owner only used rain dance. My thought train on the Klasse was since auto paint now is a catalyzed polymer then an emulsion of polymer cleaner is okay to use. I had no idea K was tempermental to work with. I was a bit intimidated by the proceedures for Zaino, so I figured something like K would be less complicated. I was trying to stay within a single product line for the cleaning and protection step. Thanks for the head's up on the clay cause now I know just where to go for it. I think I'm going to go to back to the wax web sites I have indexed and do more reading and do more reading of the old posts in this section. Man I'm buying the drinks if we ever cross trails. Thank you for being generous with your knowledge! Tom:beer
 
Sure thing Tom. I learned a lot from people sharing, it's the least I can do. :) Klasse SG isn't too bad, but if you apply it thick it can be tough to buff off. AIO is a breeze to use. I've heard that wiping SG on, then wiping it right off makes it much easier, instead of letting it sit before buffing. I've never tried that, I just try to put it on thin. I've noticed water out of body seams will make it very hard to buff too.

If you are interested, AutoGlym Super Resin Polish is a lot like AIO in result, i.e. a chemical cleaner with an acrylic protectant. It's pretty different, though. It's a thick cream while AIO is very runny. AutoGlym Extra Gloss Protection is not unlike SG, though it's very very watery and I think it is a bit glossier. AutoGlym is very easy to use. But Klasse is certainly a good choice too. Just a thought. ;)

One product I recommend a lot to co-workers and family, though don't use a whole lot myself is Meguiar's Medallion Premium Paint Protectant. It's a polymer product that's very easy to use, and has a well rounded appearance. There is also a Medallion Premium Paint Cleaner that is an excellent chemical cleaner for hand use. Both are being discontinued by Meguiar's due to CA 2005 regulations, so you may be able to get them online on a clearance-type sale. Also just a thought, you certainly don't have to go with them. I recommend them because they are very easy to use and produce good results.

Wash, clay, and Klasse is hard to argue with, though. :beer
 
Aurora40, Okay I think I have learned from you that most of the polymer prods. do the same thing. If it is a cleaner, the amount of cleaning done is directly related to the abrasive characteristics. More aggressive abrasives clean more damage. Some, but not all, leave some protection behind; but that is incedential. The sealer step is the protection, but should not be done until the cleaner step has gotten the damage off the paint otherwise damage = not much shine. By the same token all polymer sealers are just degrees of protection placed over clean paint upon compleation of the application. The more apps = more protection(within reason); but individual Mfgs. have different polymers, some have to be catalyzed to work. I include the ones that need the heat of a buffing machine, I suppose all polymers react better with a buffer. For my use I would stay away from buffers, the only experience I have is buffing boats. Gel coat and marine paints aren't the same as car paint. I'm correct in my understanding so far? I'm not rushing as it is still winter here & I have minor mech. issues to do first. Oh, one other question related to determining how much and what type of problems a paint has. The diagnosis is best done after claying or after washing alone or looking at the paint before you do anything? Sorry for all this. Anytime you want to tell me to get lost I'll understand. This is kinda like the apprentice bugging the master mechanic on the job! Thanks alot. Tom.
 
Hey Tom. I'm not sure all polymer products are the same. They all have different tradeoffs in appearance, durability, cost, ease of use, etc. The ultimate goal is to find one with the same tradeoffs that you make. Thus your perfect (but not someone else's) product.

I don't believe any really catalyze in the way paint does. Layering to me is pretty speculative. I actually think a heavy paste wax applied carefully is the most likely to develop a rea film build. Carnauba is very sticky, and pastes are lower in solvents. But that's another story... At the worst, when you apply a new layer, your car just has a fresh layer ready to take on whatever the world throws at it. At best you can build layers infinitely until your car can deflect bullets. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between there.

I think most protectants apply fine by hand, though machine application can just speed it up. Some protectants work poorly by machine because they dry out too fast. Heat would probably not be good for any protectant product as it would flash off the solvents quickly. An orbital buffer would work better for final waxing than a rotary would in most cases. But there are products made extra "wet" for rotary use.

You are right on that prep is key to a great appearance. Wax will pretty much always add some shine, but it won't make a dull car look awesome, just less dull. I'd say the best time to evaluate is after you wash it. The car will be clean and you can touch it, etc. You can also evaluate it after claying. Swirls and such will be there before and after claying, so you should be able to see them either time. Hopefully your claying won't cause any more swirls. Keep an eye on what you are doing and stop if it does. Keep the clay clean, fold it a lot. I cut a bar up into smaller pieces. If the car needs claying real bad, you may go through a couple pieces or the whole bar. Use however much it takes to do it right. Most consumer clay is 80-100g. The Corvette is small. If it were in bad need of clay, I suspect a whole bar would easily be enough. If it's in pretty good shape, you may be able to clay the car 3-4 times with that size bar. I'd cut it into 3-4 pieces if I were you and use one piece at a time.

You are right about polishes/cleaners. More abrasive will work faster/harder and correct deeper imperfections. This is because it will remove more paint. There may be a point where you'd rather leave scratches in the paint than remove that much paint depth. But for hand application, we are talking pretty mild products that won't do much more than correct mild swirls. Chemical cleaners do not have much or any abrasive and work on chemical action. They typically wont' remove swirls as they typically wont' remove any/much healthy paint. They will remove oxidized paint quite easily along with other staining and are good for removing paint transfer (like if someone dinged you or you opened your door into a painted post). Chemical cleaners, in my opinion, tend to be a bit safer to use because they shouldn't leave hazing or marring behind (there are many abrasive swirl removers that also don't leave any hazing/marring too), are awesome on dulling oxidation and embedded dirt/grime. They are just good for what is on most cars.

That said, abrasives will also remove oxidation and such, and will help correct swirls/scratches. In reality most products have both chemical and abrasive cleaning action, just in different proportions, etc to do different jobs. And abrasives can be of differing sizes, can break down more slowly, less slowly, etc. There are a million factors. On the plus side, most products out there are pretty good.

Evaluating your car after the cleaning step will tell you if a chemical cleaner addressed all the trouble spots, or if a swirl remover is needed. And if you used an abrasive, it will tell you if you removed all the swirls you were trying to remove, etc. You should be constantly evaluating your car during the process to see what it needs and what it no longer needs.

In the end, the important thing is to enjoy it, not to get overwhelmed. Whatever combination of products you go with is likely to improve the appearance of your car without causing harm to it. And you'll be more familiar with a set of products and with the process in general so you can make more informed buying/process decisions in the future, or you can decide you've gone as far as you are interested and you can sit back and enjoy a sparkling car. :) :w

As an aside, one thing I might suggest is not to go hog wild and buy 20,000,000 things. Good things to buy that you won't regret/never use are great towels, nice applicators, and great wash tools (chenile sponges, sheepskin, whatever your preference...). Then I'd say buy a nice cleaner and a nice protectant, some clay, and go to work. If you Clay, AIO, and SG the car and decide it looks great but there are some swirls you now notice, you can pick up a swirl remover to use the next time. It's up to you, though. To how perfect you want to make the car on the first try, and to how much money you want to possibly waste on products you decide you don't need or on products that after you've used a few you decide aren't the ones you should have bought, etc.
 
Hey Aurora40 Thanks man! I think I understand what you are trying to teach me! I'm in danger of over-analyzing this stuff! BTW I found a site that has some of the Autoglem stuff you were talking about and they have nice clear instructions and after reading them I feel I understand what to use each product for in their line. That's a first! I hear you about the 'tools' I think I will use microfiber stuff as it seems to be the fabric to replace 100% cotton, I even found a place that sells 100% cotton split into microfibers, Dominique France Motorsports, made in the USA. I'll stay away from the machines cause I know I can do real damage cause I don't have the knowledge to use them and if my paint is that bad I'll seek professional help.

Anyway, since autoglem's instructions were so easy to follow and the distinction among their prods. & the intended use of each is clear to me, I have confidence that I could be successful with their stuff for the cleaning the paint and protecting the paint steps. I figure after those steps I could always try a carnuaba type wax to see what happens visually, after the other stuff cures. I figure that if I use something I understand how to use then I'm less likely to make mistakes. I see that what I learned back in the 70's about Classic wax, less is more upon application is the watch word for applying today's stuff. I can only say thank you for sharing the light with me; you are a scholar & gentleman & a good judge of fine whiskey! Tom:beer
 
AutoGlym is nice stuff, and should work fine. They come in smaller sizes than Klasse, but I believe the price per ounce ends up being fairly similar. Their company website is here: http://www.autoglym.co.uk/ though you can't order from it. If you pick up their car wash, let me know what you think. It's almost like mixing up protectant in the water. I wouldn't use it on a really dirty car, but for weekly stuff it's pretty interesting, and it seems to add a bit more protection and gloss to the paint. It's weird for sure, but works nicely.

DF Towels are great stuff. I love them for quick detailing, they just glide over the surface! They are also great for buffing off that final protectant. However, they are very soft and thus aren't that well suited to buffing off things that are stubborn like some polishes. I think for your AutoGlym they'll be fine though. They certainly can be used for this, so again, it might be good to just get some, see what you think, and then go from there. I prefer waffle-weave towels for drying though. The DF's can hold a lot of water, but they absorb slowly. Sheet your car as dry as possible with gentle hose flow first and it'll do fine if you move it slowly over the car. Good luck and let us know how it turns out! :D
 
Hi Aurora40, I was thinking to use the DF's for the final buff & with detail spray. I was thinking that microfiber 90K to 100K thread count for the cleaner step and thanks for the waffle idea on drying. I was thinking of the waffle weave for washing also, does that make sense or should I use a microfiber mitt? Right now I have some microfiber towels I got at Costco and I use them for washing and drying. I washed it yesterday, used Zymol wash soap, and the water sheets off the car pretty good. I used your suggestion about the slow hose flow, sweet idea! So much less water to soak up! I looked at it after I dried it and I guess black is born with swirls! I would call them lazy swirls, wide radius, real fine in definition & hard to see unless you move your head every which way. God bless sunlight! I took a halogen work light to them and could see them easier, still they get lost to sight easily once out of the light. I guess I got a medium to not so bad case. They don't look deep at all, if this makes sense, cause they disappear and are hard to pick again visually and they are not tightly spaced. The lower reaches of the car are another matter entirely, ya know the bottom roll of the rockers and the lower front nose by the radiator intake and the vinyl spoiler are a mess. I don't want to sound smug but that doesn't bother me cause I think I can get it clean with some effort. It may not be perfect when I'm done but I can work those spots over time. Heck, I already looked at the body section of my GM manuals for how to take it apart. I saw all these bolts & fasteners while I was looking so I figured look at the ser. man. for R & R proceedures, got nothing to lose. Might be easier to work on those parts on the bench than on the car. I'm greatful for your advice, Tom. That is a sweet sounding car you have!
 

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