Distilled Water / Dexcool

[evolution]

Wow, that NPG+ stuff looks kewl. How hard is the conversion process? Do you have to flush and dry out the whole water jacket/radiator or just get as much as you can out?

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

This is not my work; unfortunately I do not remember where I got these instructions so I can’t give proper credit.:duh

1.Remove the radiator cap.
2.Remove the overflow tank.
3.Drain the coolant .
4.Flush the cooling system thoroughly with fresh water. Just put the hose in the radiator opening and let the water run through. Then drain completely.
5.Replace the drain plug.
6.Pour in the Prestone flush and top up with water.
7.Run the engine until it is completely warmed up (cooling fans kick on). Run for 15 minutes.
8.Remove the drain plug and drain the cooling system.
9.Flush with water as in step 5. While the water is running into the radiator and out of the drain, run the engine to circulate the fresh water all through the cooling system.
10.Replace the drain plug. Top up with fresh water, and run until completely warmed up.
11.Remove the drain plug and drain the cooling system as thoroughly as posible.
12.Replace the drain plug.
13.Pour 1 gallon of Sierra coolant into the cooling system (or until full). DO NOT ADD WATER!!!
14.Run the engine until it is completely warmed up (cooling fans kick on).
15.Remove the drain plug and thoroughly drain the cooling system.
16.Replace the drain plug and fill to the top with Evans NPG coolant. DO NOT ADD WATER!!!
17.Thoroughly clean the overflow tank. Flush it with fresh water, then swirl some Sierra coolant around in it to remove the water.
18.Re-install the overflow tank.
19.Modify the radiator cap for zero-pressure operation. To do this, simply remove the Coolant Return Valve from the cap (see illustrations.) To do it, drill out the center of the valve, or clip/cut off the shaft beneath it. It pulls out easily with your fingers so you can cut it. Be careful not to damage the large rubber gaskets. You can leave the small shaft and spring in there. They won't go anyplace.
20.Install the radiator cap.
21.Fill the overflow tank to the "Cold" line with Evans NPG coolant.

Over the next several days of riding, top up the overflow tank as necessary to keep it at the "Cold" line, until all air has been dispelled from the cooling system.

That's it! Kiss water-based coolant problems good-bye for the next 300,000miles or more!

 

[evolution]

....sweet

 

[c4c5specialist]

Hi there,
Belief is in the facts, nothing more, nothing less.
Fact is that when you run an engine low on Dex cool, you develop sludge, due to the incorrect mix.
The TSB for the intake gasket issues are known, and is fact.
As for the first year of Dex cool, 96 in the Corvette. 95 is when it was begun to be phased in during a couple of other lines, such as Caprice, S T trucks, and a few others, which I do not remember.
I can give you fact after fact of Corvettes running 100k on Dexcool,with no problems. The problems develop with incorrect service procedures, or contamination, or not running the 5050 mix. This is why when your coolant runs low, such as from an intake leak sludge develops.
So with that, this is all fact, back up by GM service records I keep on my customers, and GM technical data.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

evolution are you a Townes fan?

c4c5specialist I do not mean to step on any toes, What GM builds is good and right and built as best it can be at the price they sell it for. That is why I own a Vette, a Tahoe, and a Chevy van. Remember I live in Spain; I could save a ton of dough by driving Euro-trash.

Can U imagine what a Vette built with all the best parts would cost? Maybe Bill Gates could afford one, if he could get credit! I spent $25,000. On my 63 and it was only a good car. Not concourse and not with matching numbers.

This whole coolant thing is like every thing else from Detroit. They give you the best they can from the factory; it will probably last for the duration of the warranty. Using their own coolant instead of one from a third party could save $5 or $10 per car. How many cars did GM sell last year?

What am I saying? If UR Vette is still in warranty, keep it GM. When U start paying for the repairs, put in the best you can afford.

 

[Yellow96]

Dexcool

Thanks very much for the info-----any time info comes across and helps us understand or maintain our Vettes is a plus,
Thanks John

 

[Interceptor430]

I too want to say I never want to step on any toes intentionally.
I also put lots of faith, time, and $'s in GM vehicles.....I also do
old Fords...and do them myself with proven chemicals and parts.
100K on a car is no big accomplishment - regardless of what chemicals is inside.....but $30K for a GM truck, 4 years, and 70K+ miles, and a GM service tech telling me the intake is leaking because of the Dexicool (on a vehicle that They maintained, and
with GM original stuff) did not set well with me.
Bad service people?...uh hu...at an hourly rate of $65?

Yep...GM printed all this verbage, advertised all the info about a coolant that can go for 5-6 years....100-150K miles....on this new
super duper chemical called Dexicool.....it just amazes me that
they would make a big tado over $12 worth (2 gallons) of coolant
and worse yet, that so many people (including myself at one time)
believed the damn hype and trusted it.....only to get (as I said),
4 years and 70K+ miles later (out of warranty, naturally), and be told I have an intake leak because of their coolant.

Check and change your oil and filter often($25 every 3k miles if using regular oil)....check the coolant often, change it every 2 years with the proven Green stuff($12).....and check and change the auto tranny fluid, burn good premium gasoline, change the gas and air filters too.....
Take care of it.....
Ever see a Ricer with 200-300K miles on it? There are zillions of them on the road....(hint: they don't use Dexicool, use regular 87 gas, and regular oil, and I'd bet most of them have nasty air filters).

LT1 and LT4 guys....check the Evans site for instructions that are
specific to your engines.....be totally informed before making a decision on this, or any product.



Take care of you

 

[Ken]

In the event it might benefit the discussion...

From: The Penray Companies, Inc.

Category: Coolants
Bulletin No. 01.010
Date: 01/12/01
Replaces: 96.009

Introduction:

Equilon (owned by Texaco® and Shell®) markets a European coolant technology (OAT) that consists of ethylene glycol inhibited with a combination of sebacic acid and 2-ethylhexanoic acid supplemented with tolyltriazole. It was originally called "Long Life", but a lawsuit brought by Warren Oil, who markets a fully formulated coolant under the brand name "LongLife®) forced the retraction of that term from the DEXCOOL, Texaco and Caterpillar® packaging. The combination of a mono and dibasic carboxylic acids permitted Texaco to obtain a patent on the specific combination. Other companies have obtained similar patents, by varying the mixture somewhat and by using similar, but not exactly the same, chemistry.

General Motors® has been using this coolant technology in their cars and light trucks since the start-of-production of the 1996 model year vehicles (except Saturn®, which began in 1997). GMC® medium trucks equipped with Caterpillar engines, have been getting a nitrite-added form of DEXCOOL (NOAT) to insure protection against wet sleeve liner cavitation-erosion.

Frequently Asked Questions:

Can DEXCOOL organic acid antifreeze be mixed with ethylene glycol antifreeze?
It is ethylene glycol based antifreeze! The concern with mixing comes from the fact that there are very different chemical inhibitor packages in use. Most leading technologies will work very well when used as intended, typically at 50% in good quality water. If the coolants become mixed with DEXCOOL, however, one study showed a possible aluminum corrosion problem in certain situations. The other question is a concern for dilution of the protection packages. At what mix is the there too little of either inhibitor to protect the engine? As a precaution, both GM and Caterpillar instruct that contaminated systems must be maintained as if they contained only conventional coolant.

How long will it last?
Uncontaminated, the engine manufacturers instruct that it may be kept in service for 5 years or 150,000 miles in cars. In trucks, Caterpillar and GM currently recommend that the nitrited version of the coolant be run 300,000 miles or 2 years, re-inhibited with a nitrite-tolyltriazole "extender", and run to a total of 600,000 miles.

Are there different brands that meet the spec?
Yes. Any brand displaying the DEXCOOL trademark meet the spec, others advertising compatibility are from the same family of coolants.

How can a customer tell if he has DEXCOOL?
If the customer owns a GM car and has orange coolant, then its DEXCOOL! In GM trucks the coolant is "orange- red", indicating that it contains nitrite. Orange coolant in Daimler-Chrysler® vehicles is NOT Dexcool. (Daimler Chrysler owners with orange color factory coolant should consult their owners' handbooks).

Does it protect aluminum?
Yes, even though it contains no silicate, the primary aluminum protector in conventional antifreezes, published data shows that it protects aluminum.

What are the advantages of DEXCOOL compared to the previous GM 6043 factory-fill?
Compared to old-fashioned phosphated antifreeze, it may be more stable and improve water pump life. Evaluations of the two technologies to compare their respective service lives has found them comparable. In fact, a Ford Motor Company study concluded that organic acid coolants do not offer any significant advantages for the consumer over current North American coolants. In a modern car with a well maintained cooling system, current North American and OEM factory fill coolant corrosion protection can be extended far beyond previous expectations."

What are the disadvantages?
Higher cost, possible incompatibility, limited availability.

Is it environmentally safe?
It is ethylene glycol based. It is toxic. While it does reduce coolant waste, it is not environmentally safer than conventional EG coolant.

How can you test it?
Use a refractometer to test the freeze point. The inhibitor levels can not be cost effectively tested. If in doubt, throw it out and start over.

Should we recommend that Pencool® 2000 or Pencool 3000 be used with Dexcool?
Penray does not recommend the use of Pencool in Dexcool coolant.

Pencool® is a registered trademark of The Penray Companies, Inc. Dexcool® is a registered trademark of GM.

_ken

 

[vigman]

Back to the first question

ALWAYS RUN DISTILLED WATER.. reguardless of what coolant you choose ( I'm a fan of the green camp myself).

ALWAYS FLUSH THE SYSTEM TOTALLY...pull that knock sensor...drain that block ( and I use the prestone flush & fill kit adaptors but not the chemicals....I let the car run for 15 min on the hose... drive it around do it again... then drain. NOTE this might be a bad thing for Opti spark cars UNLESS you make a hose adaptor to keep water away from the front of the engine.

CHECK YOUR COOLANT LEVELS WEEKLY.. and do not top off at the local gas station... you are now putting TAP WATER back into the system.


Vig!

 

[Interceptor430]

 

["94 Sixspeed]

I too want to say I never want to step on any toes intentionally.
I also put lots of faith, time, and $'s in GM vehicles.....I also do
old Fords...and do them myself with proven chemicals and parts.
100K on a car is no big accomplishment - regardless of what chemicals is inside.....but $30K for a GM truck, 4 years, and 70K+ miles, and a GM service tech telling me the intake is leaking because of the Dexicool (on a vehicle that They maintained, and
with GM original stuff) did not set well with me.
Bad service people?...uh hu...at an hourly rate of $65?

Yep...GM printed all this verbage, advertised all the info about a coolant that can go for 5-6 years....100-150K miles....on this new
super duper chemical called Dexicool.....it just amazes me that
they would make a big tado over $12 worth (2 gallons) of coolant
and worse yet, that so many people (including myself at one time)
believed the damn hype and trusted it.....only to get (as I said),
4 years and 70K+ miles later (out of warranty, naturally), and be told I have an intake leak because of their coolant.

Check and change your oil and filter often($25 every 3k miles if using regular oil)....check the coolant often, change it every 2 years with the proven Green stuff($12).....and check and change the auto tranny fluid, burn good premium gasoline, change the gas and air filters too.....
Take care of it.....
Ever see a Ricer with 200-300K miles on it? There are zillions of them on the road....(hint: they don't use Dexicool, use regular 87 gas, and regular oil, and I'd bet most of them have nasty air filters).

LT1 and LT4 guys....check the Evans site for instructions that are
specific to your engines.....be totally informed before making a decision on this, or any product.



Take care of you

 

["94 Sixspeed]

Yes

[Ever see a Ricer with 200-300K miles on it? There are zillions of them on the road....(hint: they don't use Dexicool, use regular 87 gas, and regular oil, and I'd bet most of them have nasty air filters).

I have owned two Z cars that both lasted well past 300,000 miles and were running strong.. I changed my oil at least once a year,,ie 7-12k miles..

I am however concerned about this coolant thing. My Vette has the orange coolant, I assume it is the dexacr**. I suppost after reading this I will consider changing it. Is there any benefit to the Dex... coolant?

 

[evolution]

94 Sixspeed

Not from what I am reading!:L

I think I might try out that NGP+ stuff tho

 

[Interceptor430]

There are 3 threads running on the Dexicool subject, so do a search on the word dexicool and look for the threads with the latest dates. Also, pay close attention to what c4c5specialist says(and to what he doesn't say).

Anyway.....do the search, read the discussions, pay close attention to the points made, what GM advertises/prints, and what C4C5specialist says to do.
I, on the other hand, disagree with his opinion to stay with dex.....the greenstuff - properly maintained and changed - has never caused a problem that dexish!t has.
Just be informed....'don't believe in something you don't understand or you'll suffer' it's just like a Superstition, thank you
Stevie Wonder.

 

[c4c5specialist]

Hi Interceptor,
With all due respect, I do NOT have opinions, NOR do I have anything not to say.
Everything that I state is due to intensive research and FACT.
I MUST HAVE THE ANSWERS, or I cannot serve my customers correctly.
There is no grey area, nor will there ever be in my posts.
Please understand, I cannot speculate, or my customers will suffer, plain and simple.
In that, I cannot compromise.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[Interceptor430]

Well Hello there c4c5specialist,
Sorry to read you obviously took such offense to my comment ref what you said......or was it what you did NOT say?

Sir, I do respect and honor your written word, so if I offended you in any way directly, it was not intended.
What you DID say, is NOT what I've read in any GM manual.
Care to tell me the book and page number that says run a water hose to the engine and try to clean out the gel and bad dexicool that undertrainned and incompetant Goodwrench people at
$65 per hour do?........
Care to tell me that the Dealer Service and Mech Rep didn't tell me
my '97 intake coolant leak was NOT caused by the dexicool and that they would be happy to repair it for a mere $500?....
Care to tell me why GM would print so much info on Dexicool that it is a 5/6 year 100-150K mile coolant that Buyers of GM products
won't have to worry or be concerned about what is maybe $12.00 of fluid?
Care to tell me why GM prints in there manuals that regular type oil can stay in the engine for up to 7,500 miles? - But -the Service Department says to be sure and do it every 3K miles or 3 months?
Every one has their opinions....GM prints one thing - the Service Reps say otherwise........GM installs Dexicool - the Dealer Service Reps and Mechs say it caused a $500 problem.
Yes, I was, and remain very interested in your personal opinion and what you care to relay as the best thing to do. Obviously, by you're own written word, you have different ideas ref what should be done, what has been done, and what should be done.
If I stepped on you toes, I do apologize. If it became obvious to you or gave you the 'feeling' that what you have said is incomplete, inaccurate, or misleading, it should then be upon you to post a new thread to describe in one final and correct and believable description about the proper use and dependability of
Dexicool. If your feelings got hurt, well not many people give a damn about feelings when the subject involves our Corvettes. It is clear, concise, accuracy that comes not from feelings, but from Thinking!
Until such time that I am no longer able to think and question what are supposed to be Facts, I will continue to be in charge of what I do, have learned thru my experiences, my $'s, what has always worked correctly and flawlessly in my 12 vehicles, and will
spread the word when I have been lied to and misled by GM (your employer).
It's up to you to either explain this issue with detailed logic (thinking), or let me(and everyone else) read what you 'feel'.

 

[safety_match]

Depending on where you live, regular tap water is perfectly OK. I live on the west coast in Canada and our tap water is very soft and moutain fresh. So soft that washing the car does not leave streaks and chamois are a total waste of money.
For this particular area of the world, tap water is fine...but if you want to purchase distilled H2O it certainly won't hurt you.

Safety

 

[Ken]

I just wanna something and I'll shut up.

It's called DEXCOOL, there is no such thing as "Dexicool." :eyerole

_ken

Please don't any of you take it personally, I've just seen the word so many times now that I had to say something! :L

 

[c4c5specialist]

Well Hello there c4c5specialist,
Sorry to read you obviously took such offense to my comment ref what you said......or was it what you did NOT say?

Sir, I do respect and honor your written word, so if I offended you in any way directly, it was not intended.
What you DID say, is NOT what I've read in any GM manual.
Care to tell me the book and page number that says run a water hose to the engine and try to clean out the gel and bad dexicool that undertrainned and incompetant Goodwrench people at
$65 per hour do?.......
Care to tell me that the Dealer Service and Mech Rep didn't tell me
my '97 intake coolant leak was NOT caused by the dexicool and that they would be happy to repair it for a mere $500?....
Care to tell me why GM would print so much info on Dexicool that it is a 5/6 year 100-150K mile coolant that Buyers of GM products
won't have to worry or be concerned about what is maybe $12.00 of fluid?
Care to tell me why GM prints in there manuals that regular type oil can stay in the engine for up to 7,500 miles? - But -the Service Department says to be sure and do it every 3K miles or 3 months?
Every one has their opinions....GM prints one thing - the Service Reps say otherwise........GM installs Dexicool - the Dealer Service Reps and Mechs say it caused a $500 problem.
Yes, I was, and remain very interested in your personal opinion and what you care to relay as the best thing to do. Obviously, by you're own written word, you have different ideas ref what should be done, what has been done, and what should be done.
If I stepped on you toes, I do apologize. If it became obvious to you or gave you the 'feeling' that what you have said is incomplete, inaccurate, or misleading, it should then be upon you to post a new thread to describe in one final and correct and believable description about the proper use and dependability of
Dexicool. If your feelings got hurt, well not many people give a damn about feelings when the subject involves our Corvettes. It is clear, concise, accuracy that comes not from feelings, but from Thinking!
Until such time that I am no longer able to think and question what are supposed to be Facts, I will continue to be in charge of what I do, have learned thru my experiences, my $'s, what has always worked correctly and flawlessly in my 12 vehicles, and will
spread the word when I have been lied to and misled by GM (your employer).
It's up to you to either explain this issue with detailed logic (thinking), or let me(and everyone else) read what you 'feel'.

Hi there,
Per the following documents, you will be able to find everything I said as fact.
SI2000 document #16871, which is our GM service information, directly from GM. This document is from the 96 Corvette cooling system service. Cut and pasted directly. If you have a 96 service manual, it would be page 6-166

Notice
When adding coolant, use DEX-COOL® coolant. If silicated coolant is added to the system, premature engine, heater core or radiator corrosion may result. In addition, the engine coolant will require change sooner-at 50 000 km (30,000 mi) or 24 months.


Every 12 months or 24 135 km (15,000 miles), whichever occurs first, service the items listed under Cooling System Maintenance Recommendations .

Every 5 years or 166 000 km (100,000 miles), whichever occurs first, drain the cooling system using the following procedures:

Park the vehicle on a level surface.

Caution
Under pressure, the temperature of the solution in the radiator can be considerably higher, without boiling. Removing the radiator cap while the engine is hot (pressure is high), will cause the solution to boil instantaneously, with explosive force. The solution will spew out over the engine, fenders, and the person removing the cap. Serious bodily injury may result. Flammable antifreeze, such as alcohol, is not recommended for use at any time. Flammable antifreeze could cause a serious fire.


When the engine is cool, remove the filler cap from the radiator surge tank. Refer to Radiator Filler Cap Assembly .
Open the radiator drain cock. This is at the bottom of the right-hand radiator end tank.
Remove the engine knock sensors and the engine block coolant drain hole plug from the lower right-hand and left-hand side of the engine block.
Allow the system to completely drain.
Inspect the drained coolant.

Notice
Do not use a chemical flush. This could cause damage to the cooling system.


If the coolant is discolored, flush the cooling system. Refer to Flushing .
If the coolant appearance is normal, continue with the refilling procedure.

This is the answer for your first question.
The second question about what your dealership tells you there is nothing I can do about. GM service information is out there, but your dealership is a franchise, and is subject to their own interpretation of the service information. I do not take that liberty. Obviously, if you have GM service information manuals, owners manuals, and the like, I would simply follow what GM states. You were not mislead by GM, because GM did not tell you anything from what you have said here.
The only place that has told you anything is your local dealership, which is simply a franchise, and choses not to tell you the facts as regards this issue.
00-02-06-006 is a general service information bulletin about the GM policy, and service intervals, and service procedures for all Dexcool equipped vehicles.
And GM is NOT my employer, my dealership is.
Fact is fact, and that is all I have posted, to answer your last post.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[twiget]

So in a nut shell, flush the system, fill with distilled water and green stuff.

Jason