Help! drifts like a boat and rides like rock

[gemini]

i have a couple of ? that may seem a little strange so i should explain along with my other real vettes i have a half breed a 1980 phillips berlina with really low miles
they were 80 - 82 corvettes frame /drive train and interior doors and top warrantied by gm with a 36 benz body with that in mine
here are some dumb? i have....
they extended the frame from the factory 22 inches and the car has some drift at higher speeds
what can i do it has factory spec tires on it will 255 60 15s help? i was told a wider tire with more ground tread could make a difference
can i upgrade the suspension for a tighter feel? inspite of the car being tight at higher speed you also seem to lose the feel of the road
any suggestions on aftermarket tips to improve?

it also rides like a rock or a C3
??? upgrade the shocks or???????

 

[KANE]

I don't think there is much that can be done about the aerodynamics of the body. So, at higher speeds... it is what it is. Additionally, with added length, the balance and characteristics have been changed a bit from the factory tuning.

As for suspension and handling... there are a lot of options from costly to reasonable. Here are a few thoughts on the costly side-

1.) Rear suspension: more progressive monospring, better tie rods with less give, urethane bushings
2.) Wheels and tires: something in the 16"-18" range with a Z rated performance tire
3.) Front suspension: new shocks and springs (more progressive shocks and BB springs), urethane bushings, new ball joints, and even a set of Steeroids.

A less expensive route would be to have the alignment and suspension components checked and then replace what was worn or damaged.

And... post some pics of your Berlina!

 

[duke94]

I agree with darkshark, aerodynamics of the car are not to good at high speed. Better shocks will help the ride, but check the suspension over to be sure the bushings are not just dry rotted from age.
Here some pics of one I found on the internet. neat looking ride but not made for high speed driving I think.
http://www.motorcarportfolio.com/site/product.cfm?id=2789

 

[wishuwerehere82]

The single best handling improvement on my 82 was to install new steering cylinder assist bushings on the rod end to frame bracket. The originals were compressed so much that the rod was flopping back and forth in the bracket.
It tightened up the steering, and took away all of the drifting at highway speeds.
The next improvement was to replace the stock shocks with some Monroe Sensatrack shocks. This got rid of the bone jarring feel and put a little more spring in the ride. Not a performance feel by any means, but a lot more enjoyable road ride without feeling every crack in the road.

 

[gemini]

rockin and rollin berlina/corvette

you guys rock more then the berlina!
it was more helpfull info then you probably realized!

because it came with 15 factory wires/tires
for looks i will be limited to 15s
do you think that the 255 60 15s will make a real diference? because of the wider tire and more tread? any other suggestions ??

i will follow up soon and let you know how it turns out

the 81/82 Berlina corvettes had power seats and mirrors
most also have cruise
any suggestions on where to locate the factory creature comforts ???
will this be a real time consuming painfull exsperience?

besides the vette supply shops any other places that have in dash radio/cds that fit in factory space? favorite brands?

thaaaaaaaaaaaanks again !!!!!!!
shortly i will post a photo of the Berlina for those who may be curios

! hopefully some will find it at least a little funky VETTE cross breed!

 

[gemini]

c3 half breed berlina/corvette

for those who were curios attached is the half berlina 1936 540k benz/80 corvette
later if anyone is interested i will post the c3 corvette interior it fits like a glove!

drive train interior doors and top are all c 3
completed after the gm/vette was sent to the phillips motor corp factory
it was serviced and had a warranty from gm

thanks again to everyone for all the helpfull ideas !

 

[chevy6673]

for those who were curios attached is the half berlina 1936 540k benz/80 corvette
later if anyone is interested i will post the c3 corvette interior it fits like a glove!

drive train interior doors and top are all c 3
completed after the gm/vette was sent to the phillips motor corp factory
it was serviced and had a warranty from gm

thanks again to everyone for all the helpfull ideas !

so your saying a guy named phillips got some vette parts and some benz parts and made a berlina dont take this wrong but why was it a big seller .:confused

 

[gemini]

why not more berlina/corvettes???

good ? i also wondered about that ! so in my spare time i decided to try to put it all together
especially if you see one of the cars they do blow your mind there not a kit or a excaliber
he gm and benz really had something going
it was marketed to the rich i just read a old miami newspaper article in which it appeared on MILLONAIRES ROW at the miami car show with other fatcat car toys of the time

phillips was a bit oot of the box he built it with 20 coats of hand rubbed paint a lot of imported stainless and the list goes on
he had a thing about quality and a history of toys for the rich
it shows when you look at the materials he used in the car he didn t seem to cut corners
they were intended to be for a few not massed produced like a cheap kit car
he also thought the c3 s would be around for another year
when they killed the c3 in 82 they killed his car
because the c 3 was a perfect match and nothing fit for the c4s a couple of covette dealers were marketing them for him and i am sure they wern t pleased by how the car ended
\
to bad they couldn t have continued because if you like 30s vintage or street rods and vettes
man they really came together with this car
there are supposed to be less then 100 around depending who you talk to
for me i am trying to update the car without straying to far from the original so all the tech info i have been getting from others has been quite helpfull!
hope i answered your ?

 

[White75]

Looks better than a Zimmer

 

[gemini]

lets here it for a corvette half breed!

thanks for the complement!
as a norm i am not one who likes retro or kit cars
but the berlina was one of a kind creation

 

[Vette79]

You also might want to look at installing or upgrading your sway bars for handling...

 

[pbcanney]

They were a Sign O The Times....

Caballista

Berlina

another Berlina

Miami Vice-ish Ferrari Daytonas:

Style wise the Berlina was done well, and I've only heard praises from the owners and hate chants from the purists.

I'm sure the chassis would benefit with a little extra bracing for the additional 2 feet.

 

[gemini]

retros??????

your right those were the times for the retro cars
they also made a pretty decent 55 vette and a so so bird at the time normally i am one of the guys who gags at the retros
but the berlinas always caught my eye because they were tied to the vettes from day one
now i m trying to figure out how to upgrade it without the compromise of the car ....any help is greatly appreciated
by the way the first berlina photo is now mine!

 

[JohnZ]

he gm and benz really had something going

Neither GM nor Mercedes-Benz were involved in the project, nor did they supply any unique parts for the Berlina; Phillips made his own Berlina parts. GM only honored the warranty on unmolested mechanical parts.

 

[Vette/Berlina-coupe]

Hello JohnZ & Gemini: -am also a proud owner of an '80/Berlina'Vette- MB/540k-replicar manufactured in Ltd.-production via Phillips-MotorcarCo. of Boco'Raton, Florida 33432, on a brand-new C3 chassis. He'd buy entire new Corvettes ('80/'81/'82/and some reg. as '83's) from ByronCooper's/CorvetteCenter (served as the primary sales-outlet, and may still have one in their showroom presently; --615/687-8303Knoxville,TN 37918), completely dismantle the bodies (apparently thus resold an astonishing approx. 87-unused Vette-body sections to repair-shops), and as you related 'spliced-in' a hefty 24"/box-section (the transversely-cut stub-ends of the original-frame were partially inserted 1" therein), and then proceeded to make numerous further modifications by which to adapt his beautifully replicated MB-540k body thereon. Matter of fact, owing that i am a usPatent-specialist (prepare complete patents for companies and pvt.inventors), i did a bit of research and by golly discovered Chas.W.Phillips usPat.#4369559 (filed: 08/1980) which interestingly covers the complete process by which he conducted the conversion of the C3-Corvette into a replica of the swanky Hitler-era 1934-'38 MercedesBenz 2-place Autobaun-conv. (one of which i located and bought in 1961-Germany for only $20k in pristine cond., but which i had to soon resell, as a man in my 20's i could not meet the payments; -but which today go for million$). Anyway, i have owned my Berlina-vette for about a decade, and so as to make it drive more faithfully to the original, have removed the Pwr.Steering/Pwr.Brakes, installed larger 540k-style headlamps, and numerous other period furnishings, including a larger banjo/steering-wheel, and teleflex-cable remote-control R&L chevy/chrome-mirrors, and for safety the brake-calipers have been SS/re-sleeved w/O-rings. The interior of mine has the Claret-leather in beau.condition since the car only has 15k-miles on the 140-mph/speedometer. Budgetary constraints allowing, i am thinking of installing the 5-speed/Tremec-transmission in place of the original TH350-automatic, --so as to be more in keeping with the orig. MB540k embodiment. The Berlina-C3 tips the scale at 3,400-lbs (w/plastic rear-leafspring & 1.25"Diam. front/antisway-bar); --saw a black one at a SanDiego car-show in which the wealthy-owner had installed a Jaguar-V12 that filled-out the eng.-compartment very handsomely. Interesting to note that the original-MB/540k had independent rear-suspension very similar to the C3-vette, -which is likely another reason why skilled-designer C.A.Phillips was so enamored with creating his Berlina-classic (xlnt. specimens now still commanding as much or more than Berlina cost new in 1980's --about $40-50k); --thus Mr.Phillips(or his survivors) and Mr.ByronCooper are certainly urged to comment here with further insights...
~Robair Vonheck

 

[gemini]

berlina

ITS AMAZING HOW MUCH I AM LEARNING ABOUT THE FACTS AND MYTHS OF THE BERLINA
BECAUSE THERE IS NO WEBSITE OR REAL HISTORICAL ARCHIVE YOU JUST HAVE TO PIECE IT ALL TOGETHER

I THINK MUCH OF THE INFO OUT THERE I HAVE BEEN TOLD WAS TRUE
BUT I HAVENT FIGURED OUT IF PHILLIPS BOUGHT THE VETTES IN BULK FROM GM OR DIRECTLY FROM DEALERS
he kept the interiors doors and tops
OR IF BENZ HELPED CONSULTED SOME HOW WITH THE PROJECT
THATS SEEMS TO BE THE RAP OUT THERE THESE DAYS

ROBAIR THANKS FOR YOUR INSIGHT LOVE TO TALK TO YOU SOMETIME! post a photo of your berlina

DO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE OUT THERE KNOW IF I CAN PUT SOME WIDER TIRES LIKE 255 60 15 s ON IT OR OR IF I CAN FIND 16s AND BUY SOME NEW WIRES FOR IT

ALONG WITH THE OTHER SUGGESTIONS IT MAY GO ALONG WAY TO IMPROVE RIDE OR HANDLING

THE LAST THING ANYONE KNOW OUT THERE WHO HAS SOME ELECTRIC 81/82 MIRRORS FOR IT ??
THANKS EVERYONE FOR ALL YOUR HELP!!!!
TIM

 

[killain]

I don't think there is much that can be done about the aerodynamics of the body. So, at higher speeds... it is what it is. Additionally, with added length, the balance and characteristics have been changed a bit from the factory tuning.

As for suspension and handling... there are a lot of options from costly to reasonable. Here are a few thoughts on the costly side-

1.) Rear suspension: more progressive monospring, better tie rods with less give, urethane bushings
2.) Wheels and tires: something in the 16"-18" range with a Z rated performance tire
3.) Front suspension: new shocks and springs (more progressive shocks and BB springs), urethane bushings, new ball joints, and even a set of Steeroids.

A less expensive route would be to have the alignment and suspension components checked and then replace what was worn or damaged.

And... post some pics of your Berlina!

I have to agree with Darkshark and the other guys with one thing not mentioned. Ah, I had a 79 which I did a total restoration on and is just about identical to the 80 and 81 and I had 60 series tires on my car, which I found to really aggravate the "Wander" problem with the C-3 platform. I switched to the standard tire which was option QGR Goodyear white letter SBR P225/70R15 tires ( I used them as I was having the car NCRS flight judged) But we mounted and spun balanced them up to 70 MPH and they were straight as an arrow and they made a big difference in the handling and control. Now this is just me, But I have never been a big fan of wire wheels when your dealing with the heaviest corvette built. If it were me, I'd find a better stamped or forged wheel and use the standard P225/70R15 tire which is taller ( you can find any number of excellant tires on the market) and mount and use them as well as go over the entire suspension system with a fine tooth comb looking for crushed or broken bushing and or brackets. I have seen shock and the steering support brackets cracked and they only show up when you but a load on them. We dealing with a car that weighs well over two tons and that puts a lot of stress on the suspension. IMHO

 

[fauxrs]

i have a couple of ? that may seem a little strange so i should explain along with my other real vettes i have a half breed a 1980 phillips berlina with really low miles
they were 80 - 82 corvettes frame /drive train and interior doors and top warrantied by gm with a 36 benz body with that in mine
here are some dumb? i have....
they extended the frame from the factory 22 inches and the car has some drift at higher speeds
what can i do it has factory spec tires on it will 255 60 15s help? i was told a wider tire with more ground tread could make a difference
can i upgrade the suspension for a tighter feel? inspite of the car being tight at higher speed you also seem to lose the feel of the road
any suggestions on aftermarket tips to improve?

it also rides like a rock or a C3
??? upgrade the shocks or???????

Have the alignment checked - get the front caster set basicly as high as they can - 5 or 6 degrees this will make sure the car stays on track...I had a crazy low caster setting on my 78 and it wandered all over the place until I cranked more caster into it..

wider tires will exacerbate the problem - not make it better.

 

[gemini]

rock n roll berlina/vette

thanks again everyone for your pearls of wisdom and time/trouble!

all the tire people i talked to kept on pushing me to put on 60/15s as there solution
something with that just didn t seem to jell

the wires wouldn t be my choice but they really add to the period look of the car
the car has six of them with two fender tire enclosed mounts that show the wires
and its a pain to get other wheels to fit in the mounts

still i have been looking for some retro wire/spoke looking rim to put on
if you have any ideas let me know!
your first hand knowlage and suggestions really helps!

lets push my luck....anybody know of a vette bone yard where i could get a pair of 81/82 power mirrors? they put on the stock chrome mirrors but left a interior chrome square piece on the inside
they seemed at the time to want to keep the outside as clean/period as possible
the 81/82 s berlinas/corvette didnt have power mirrors as i can tell

i will get the tires this week let ya know how it turns out
tim

 

[killain]

Contemporary Corvette
2705 old Rodgers road
bristol, PA 19007
215-788-8605
www.contemporarycorvette.com