Dual Quad Resto (still...cont'd)

[Bwmurph]

I'm getting down to the nitty gritty of putting everything back together after re-building the carbs (finally) and am running into a couple of problems;

1) I'm trying to put a PCV valve on since this is a crate motor that really should have one. I'm planning on using the vented oil fill cap at the front of the intake manifold as the "in" part of the vent system and then running a hose with an inline PCV valve from the oil fill cap on the driver side valve cover to the back of the carb. Can I run this to the front (secondary) carb of my dual quad set-up ?
Will it draw enough vacuum at idle and normal running conditions to perform correctly ? ALso, if this is feasible, hoping that it won't interfere with the carb linkage. Suppose I could run the hose around the front of the carb and connect from the other side, but that will look tacky, I think.

2) If I can't run the PCV to the front carb, can I run the vacuum advance from the front carb ? Same question: Will it provide enough vacuum at normal running to operate the advance properly ? If this is OK I will then run the PCV to the back (primary) carb. I like this set up the best, as I think it will look a lot "cleaner". I can't run both to the back carb as any "T" type block to hook both up that I have found interferes with the distributor.

ANy and all answers, help, suggestions, etc..... will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bernie O.

 

[studiog]

I'm getting down to the nitty gritty of putting everything back together after re-building the carbs (finally) and am running into a couple of problems;

1) I'm trying to put a PCV valve on since this is a crate motor that really should have one. I'm planning on using the vented oil fill cap at the front of the intake manifold as the "in" part of the vent system and then running a hose with an inline PCV valve from the oil fill cap on the driver side valve cover to the back of the carb. Can I run this to the front (secondary) carb of my dual quad set-up ?
Will it draw enough vacuum at idle and normal running conditions to perform correctly ? ALso, if this is feasible, hoping that it won't interfere with the carb linkage. Suppose I could run the hose around the front of the carb and connect from the other side, but that will look tacky, I think.

2) If I can't run the PCV to the front carb, can I run the vacuum advance from the front carb ? Same question: Will it provide enough vacuum at normal running to operate the advance properly ? If this is OK I will then run the PCV to the back (primary) carb. I like this set up the best, as I think it will look a lot "cleaner". I can't run both to the back carb as any "T" type block to hook both up that I have found interferes with the distributor.

ANy and all answers, help, suggestions, etc..... will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bernie O.

My 61 AIM shows a PVC setup for dual quads (for Califonia cars I presume) if you're looking for ideas. I could scan it and post it if you think it might help. Are they WCFBs?

 

[Bwmurph]

Studiog,

Thanks for the reply; yes the carbs are WCFB's (2613S, 2614S). Didn't know they had PCV's way back then. The AIM pics should help me, I hope.

Thanks,

Bernie O.

 

[Muttley]

I think you'll find the 61-62 California PCV system connected to what was the road draft vent at the back of the engine block. Unfortunately, that's a provision your 350 block doesn't have.

Looking at the old system may still be a source of ideas, though.

 

[JohnZ]

I'd connect the PCV hose to the rear (primary) carb, as it's the one that has airflow through it into the intake to carry the fuel-air mixture and the PCV fumes directly into all the cylinders. The front (secondary) carb is in a "dead spot" airflow-wise, since its throttle blades are always closed (except when you put your foot in it).

Paragon has a right-angle fitting (#26) that screws into the back of the WCFB baseplate, and the PCV valve that screws into it (#8560).

You can pick up manifold vacuum from anywhere on the intake; it's not airflow-sensitive, and manifold vacuum is equal at any point on the intake.

 

[Bwmurph]

JohnZ,

Thanks for the reply; I may try that. However, I've gotten several fittings from the local auto/hardware stores and they are all too big. Actually, too long may be the right word - they interfere with the distributor cap. I have a standard single point distributor with vacuum advance and the little window in front to adjust the points. All these fittings (most were right angle brass fittings that I planned to put a hose on and use an inline PCV valve) interfered with the cap. When I finally gave up on that idea I just went to put a standard pipe plug in the hole in the carb base plate and it too interfered with the dist. cap. I ended up having to get a recessed allen head plug to close off the hole in the base plate.

I do have a Paragon catalog around somewhere, so I'll take a look at it, but will be surprised if it will work for me.

Thanks,

 

[vintagecorvette]

The factory distributor that was used with the dual quads is smaller that the one with the window. The larger one when used with the WCFB is really hard to adjust. oWEN

 

[Bwmurph]

oWEN,

Yeah, I've kind of figured that out. I do have an old original dual point distributor for it, but don't really want to use it; might have to though. Do you (or anyone else out there) know if the new (pointless) conversion kits will fit under one of these distributor caps ? I'm tinking that might be the way to go. Not sure why I didn't convert my current distributor over to pointless ignition during this re-build. Just old school I guess, or just old and not too bright.

Thanks,

Bernie O.

 

[vintagecorvette]

Bernie,

My 1957 had 2x4 and the proper dual point distributor and it was great. All new set up properly and it functioned well. I looked into the point less set up, but decided to spend the money else where. The proper distributor is just easier to work with. Good luck which ever path you pick.

oWEN

 

[Bwmurph]

oWEN,

Maybe I'll have to get the old dual point out and see what kind of shape it's in. Been so long since I set up a set of points by hand I'm not sure I remember how....seem to recall using a match pack to set the point gap !!

Anyway, this story actually gets worse - WHen I (finally) got it all back together on Saturday I fired it up and things looked pretty good. A couple of small fuel leaks that I got stopped right away and a little fooling around with the timing and idle settings and things looked and sounded real good. Backed it out of the garage and let it warm up to operating temp, everything is still real nice. SHut it off and started back up again; starts better than it ever did,.

Washed and cleaned it all up and took a short ride to a friends house. First thing it did was spit up coolant all over his driveway. THen, while he's hosing that down I notice it dripping oil - leaking like a sieve out of the front of the intake manifold seal. Guess I didn't put enough of the silicone caulk there; you can bet I'll put enough this time around !! SO I've got to tear it all down again !

ALso, all the books I have say that these cars hold approx 17 quarts of coolant. When I did this re-build I emptied the radiator and drained the block. Most I could get back in was 3.5 gallons, and it spit a buch of that out like it was way over full. DOes a 350 crate motor hold that much less in the block than an old 283 ???

Got a little long winded here, sorry. Thanks for any and all help,

Bernie O.

 

[vintagecorvette]

Bernie.
Is the motor properly vented? If not you may be pressurizing the base and could be why you blew the gasket out. I only put a small dab of gasket goo in the corners on the intake. If the silicon sealant gets on the rubber gaskets, the rubber gaskets will pop out. As for the block, did you knockout the drains in it and flush it right out? oWEN

 

[Bwmurph]

oWEN,

I believe the motor is vented enough with the oil fill cap at the front of the intake manifold and the breather caps in the valve covers (one on driver side and two on pass. side). The breather cap on the driver side is where I was planning on running the PCV valve from (see previous threads), but the way I have it set up now is how its been running for about 8 years. Also, I don't use the rubber gaskets at the intake manifold ends (they don't even come with the intake manifold gasket set from the Chevy parts counter anymore), I just use the silicone caulk all the way across from one head to the other with an extra dab at the corners. I think I just screwed up and didn't get enough on in the first place or smeared it around too much when I placed the manifold on the motor. Live and learn.

As for the block (remember, this is an early crate motor): it has drain plugs in the extreme bottom of the block just over top of the oil pan on each side of the block. Simply unscrew the plugs and all the water (I assume) in the block drains out.

I'm going to get back after it tonight when I get off work; so P.O.'d the last couple of days I just didn't even want to touch it. And I'm still trying to decide what I wnat to do about the distributor / PCV valve situation.

I'll keep you informed of any progress / other disasters !

Thanks,

Bernie O.

 

[JohnZ]

If you decide to use the old dual-point distributor (probably an 891), adjust each set of points (independently) for 29* dwell (put a piece of cardboard inbetween the points of the other set, then reverse the operation for the other set), and you should end up with 34* dwell with both sets operating. Pertronix does make a little-known conversion for the 891-type distributor.

 

[motorman]

If you decide to use the old dual-point distributor (probably an 891), adjust each set of points (independently) for 29* dwell (put a piece of cardboard inbetween the points of the other set, then reverse the operation for the other set), and you should end up with 34* dwell with both sets operating. Pertronix does make a little-known conversion for the 891-type distributor.

not to start a ****ing contest with john z,look what happen to pres reagan, but i have found that if you take the pressure off of the cam by blocking one set of points it will cause the other set to change dwell when you remove the piece of cardboard. the best way is to remove the jumper wire between the points when setting the dwell. JMHO

 

[JohnZ]

not to start a ****ing contest with john z,look what happen to pres reagan, but i have found that if you take the pressure off of the cam by blocking one set of points it will cause the other set to change dwell when you remove the piece of cardboard. the best way is to remove the jumper wire between the points when setting the dwell. JMHO

Clem, never tried that, but it sure sounds logical - will remember that next time I set one up

 

[Bwmurph]

JohnZ and motorman,

Thanks for the replies; I'm liking the sound of the Pertronix conversion kit to be honest. I've been wanting to do that anyway, but that may be a little down the road due to cost and availability and my wanting to get this car back on the road. Been at least 2.5 - 3 months since I've had it out (other than my disasterous quick trip the other day).

And I would have to read up (several times I'm sure) on setting the points in the old service manuals.

Just looked at the ol' "891" and it has what appears to be two good sets of points, but no rotor, no centrifigal weights, and no dist. cap. I'm sure they're all available from Paragon, Corvette Centeral, etc.... but who knows how long to get them.

Well..........out to the garage to start tearing this thing down (again) to fix my oil leak.

Thanks guys,

Bernie O.

 

[JohnZ]

Just looked at the ol' "891" and it has what appears to be two good sets of points, but no rotor, no centrifigal weights, and no dist. cap. I'm sure they're all available from Paragon, Corvette Centeral, etc.... but who knows how long to get them.

Well..........out to the garage to start tearing this thing down (again) to fix my oil leak.

Thanks guys,

Bernie O.

The centrifugal weights and springs in the 891-type dual-point distributors are there, but they're buried down below the breaker plate, inside the iron "bowl" area; you have to disassemble and remove the breaker plate to get to them. Not real handy for tuning. :eyerole