dyno data, ported TPI,vs MINIRAM, vs,STEALTHRAM

[grumpyvette]

I found this info and I figured you guys might like to look it over, now the first thing I want to point out is where the DATA came from. and KEEP IN MIND ITS REAR WHEEL HP AND The TPI INTAKE IN THE TEST consists of 58mm TB, fully ported plenum, AS&M largetube runners, and highly ported Edelbrock base WHICH MEANS ITS ALREADY MAKING AT LEAST 25HP-30HP MORE THAN A STOCK TPI INTAKE)


http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/winter01/dyno/

The engine was basically the same,in all the test except for the intake manifold, consisting of a ZZ4 crate motor, AFR190 heads, LT4 HOT cam, and SLP 1-3/4" SS headers. Trans is a 700r4 with a Vigilante 2800 stall converter. The Engine Control Module (ECM) was a '92 TPI stock ECM (MAP/speed-density) with a modified EPROM.

I HAVE GONE TRU AND WILL PICKED OUT THE IMPORTANT POINTS TO SAVE YOU TIME IN THE CHARTs AND GRAPHS ON THE SITE

TPI engine.....283 PEAK rwhp @4800rpm peak
AVG. TQ 291.5
AVG HP 269.5



miniram
303 PEAK rwhp @6200rpm peak
AVG. TQ 285.8
AVG HP 269.1
IT LOST 29 HP at 3800 rpm and MADE 48 MORE HP THAN THE stock TPI at 6300 RPM


stealth ram
342 PEAK rwhp @6400rpm
AVG. TQ 319
AVG HP 300 it lost 28 hp at 3600 rpm BUT GAINED 66 HP AT 6600 RPM
over the stock TPI
342 rear wheel hp is aproximatly equal to 427 flywheel HP FROM A 350 SBC ENGINE, figuring a 20% driveline loss rate.

the use of a longer duration cam and only measureing PEAK HP would tend to benefit the miniram and STEALTH RAM intakes to a MUCH GREATER extent than the TPI, THATS HOW claims of gains of 100hp are made for some intake combos, while its TRUE that you can make in excess of a HUNDRED EXTRA hp at 6600rpms is due more to the TPI not being able to flow air (LOSSES) keep in mind that a LARGER ENGINE DISPLACEMENT WOULD BENEFIT EVEN MORE from the steathram
link to c-4 stealthram
link to miniram
link to Airizona speed & marine

 

[Red 90 L98 Coupe]

Thanks for posting this. I plan on building a "big small block" within the next year and am up in the air about what intake to run so I like to read any info about what is out there. The Mini and Stealth Rams are high up on my list of maybes so this was of interest.

 

[69MyWay]

Grump,

I am starting to waffle on my decision to install the LT1 intake conversion on my ultra low budge 383 85 Vette project.

Here are my specs:

1. 350 .030 over with 400 crank, powdered rods and speed pro forged pistons. (flat top-two eyebrow relief).
2. Late model cast heads (center screw) ported and polished, 2.02/1.6 light weight valves, appropriate springs, pinned studs.
3. GM full roller 1.6 ratio rockers
4. ADS strip chip
5. B&M 2,800 stall converter
6. full length headers
7. Accell injectors (can't remember the lbs).
The cam specs below assume a 1.5 rocker:

Cam Specifications


Degrees Duration @ .050 Int./Exh. Degrees Advertised Duration Int./Exh. Degree Lobe Separation Open/Close @.050" Cam Lift Int./Exh. Lash Hot Int./Exh. Gross Lift Int./Exh.
216
228 272
284 112 1 35
51 ( 3) .000
.000
.454
.480

**granted the cam is fairly mild--it is a flat tappet hydraulic and I will be driving this car to and from work**

The rear gear is a 3.07.

If I spring for a new intake, I will have to run the 46 mm tb for a long time....so, total performance will be capped a bit.


Thoughts?

Chris

 

[-=Jeff=-]

Chris,

it is a 48mm not 46mm TB.

Anyway, if you switch from the LT1 intake, I would suggest trying the Stealth Ram, but you will need a custom plenum since the stock Stealth Ram Plenum will not fit under the C4's hood

 

[69MyWay]

Chris,

it is a 48mm not 46mm TB.

Anyway, if you switch from the LT1 intake, I would suggest trying the Stealth Ram, but you will need a custom plenum since the stock Stealth Ram Plenum will not fit under the C4's hood

Sorry about the 2mm typo. I am bad about getting numbers switched.

The stealth ram grumpy is talking about is one that he distributes with a modified upper plenum that will work on a C4.

Total price as advertised with the Holley base and fuel rails is less than just a miniram.

 

[Edmond]

Total price as advertised with the Holley base and fuel rails is less than just a miniram.

So that's just under $800 for the plenum, fuel pressure regulator, base and fuel rails? All you need are larger injectors?

 

[69MyWay]

So that's just under $800 for the plenum, fuel pressure regulator, base and fuel rails? All you need are larger injectors?

I talked to Paul about this today. He was kind enough to return my call on his cell while on vacation out of state.

Basically you need:

injectors yours, or bigger ones
throttle body, yours or a bigger one
the small bodied distributor and wire pig tails to finish it
external coil
fuel line connectors.

You can contrast that with a miniram (+fuel line kit) where you supply:

injectors, yours or bigger
throttle body, yours or bigger

The Stealth Ram still looks like a better deal.

I am trying to work some sweat equity trading out and see if I can't get a check in the mail to Grump before the week is out.

 

[Edmond]

Basically you need:

injectors yours, or bigger ones
throttle body, yours or a bigger one
the small bodied distributor and wire pig tails to finish it
external coil
fuel line connectors.

You can contrast that with a miniram (+fuel line kit) where you supply:

injectors, yours or bigger
throttle body, yours or bigger

The Stealth Ram still looks like a better deal.

Would the 48mm TB be enough for such a setup?

Assuming that you would use the injectors and TB that you already have, you really just have to get the small bodied distributor, wire pig tails, external coil and fuel line connectors to finish it right?

I see a huge gain in HP, but the torque gains pale in comparison. Will that take away from off the line seat in the pants feel?

Are you still running the 700R4 tranny? How much HP and torque can the stock tranny handle without breaking?

 

[69MyWay]

Edmond,

The 48 vs. 52 mm is not going to be that big of a deal.

Yes...loss of torque is felt on the low end in the seat of the pants. However, the extra RPM, and stretching the torque and HP out longer will generate more speed and pull.

I have a 700R4 in this car. With the 2800 stall it will pull hard off the line.

They can handle some big hp numbers...but could still be considered the weakest link in this combo.

 

[Edmond]

Yes...loss of torque is felt on the low end in the seat of the pants. However, the extra RPM, and stretching the torque and HP out longer will generate more speed and pull.

So the strength is really in the upper RPM's right? Say for a 65+ punch on the expressway?

 

[69MyWay]

Basically, you will feel the increase quick. The stock TPI will rev strong to about 4800 RPM, then, even though it continues to rev to 6,000 RPM, it does it with decreasing power, so that the car drops off just before it shifts gears.

Adding the extra capacity to breath will allow the car to keep pulling harder and harder past 4800 up to 6,000, so that it has built much more momentum going into the next gear.

At 65, if you just punch it, for the first 2 seconds or so the L98 might react a bit better, but after that, the added breathing of the after market manifold will let it just keep building and building.

It is night and day...(my experience from the miniram).

You will never miss that torque down low.

 

[tntcorvette]

am I reading this correctly??? The miniram install was done wrong with the intake gasket not done correctly resulting in oil being sucked into the combustion chamber.

"May 1, 2001 - A post-mortum of the gaskets during an intake swap, showed that they weren't sealed properly, and sucking alot of oil into the combustion chambers. This would account for all the knock and erratic dyno numbers.."


from http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/winter01/dyno/010413/webpage010413.html


I cant see a motor like that only making 303 rwhp....

 

[tntcorvette]

"hello.....is anybody out there???"


The more I think about it, the more im not liking the Stealth Ram. A hot cam 350 with AFR heads "only" doing 342rwhp @ 6400 RPMS and the MiniRam doing 303 @ 6200rpms?

And on top of that the guy admits to having a intake manifold leak during the published miniram rwhp numbers?

Talk about smoke in the mirrors. My car did 353 rwhp with clogged cats and a 2.5" non mandrel bent exhaust system(exhaust from 355 superram engine that ran rich).

With my new 3" exhaust and new cats, I expect to pick up 15 to 25rwhp.

 

[Ken]

"hello.....is anybody out there???"

Relax, someone will be here to talk about it soon. I ain't gettin' into it because my money's already in the Miniram.

 

[tntcorvette]

my money is in the miniram too!

I have yet to use n2o on the car. 175hp shot should do wonders with the new exhaust!!!

Maybe the stealthram is more of a forced induction intake, or just needs a different cam.

 

[69MyWay]

It is really hard to compare apples to oranges when all circumstances are not exactly the same.

TPIS claims incredible boosts from the swap, and I know that it works as my last car had one.

Maybe you get what you pay for, but the miniram is the most expensive of all the alternative intakes...and is the smallest, least amount of parts.

I was looking at the super ram deal that uses the stock intake (prefers a ported base) , then the runners and upper box. Those are not too expensive and allow you to use your stock fuel rails, lines, etc.

There are several alternatives out there.

 

[grumpyvette]

here read this, its a test of a stealth ram camaro,

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0307htp_holleystealth/

your comparing apples and oranges, in some of those posts, keep in mind that the stealth ram is designed to work best in the 4000rpm-6500rpm range, both the cars gearing and cam must match for the best results. if you install to mild of a cam or gear the car wrong the results will be lower than the potential the intake has, the stealth ram has longer runners that build torque faster at lower rpms than the miniram (WITH A MATCHING CAM) and much better flow than the stock or even ported TPI intake, the minirams shorter runner length is potentially matched to a higher rpm range and should at least in theory require an even more radical cam and higher rpms to proform to its full advantage, I tested both on my 383 corvette when looking into the best replacement for the highly restrictive TPI, at least on my corvette the STEALTH RAM produced noticably better mid range torque

 

[Edmond]

But the big thing that strikes me here is the money you spend on the Stealth Ram vs. the Mini Ram. The SR is a couple hundred bucks less.

And now that there is a Stealth unit that will fit under a C4, I think more people will start using it.

 

[69MyWay]

Well, I am leaning heavy towards Grumpy's modified Stealth Ram.

I could not scrape up the spare dough to shoot him a check this week...but am working on it.

My modified LT1 intake is still at the aluminum shop in line to get converted. That is only going to cost a few small dollars.

This latest project is all about super low budget.

I am however looking at putting the stock intake on the motor so I can at least fire it up and see that it actually runs before I do anything else.

 

[Blown Vette]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=645938

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=636678

here read this, its a test of a stealth ram camaro,

http://www.gmhightechperformance.co..._holleystealth/

your comparing apples and oranges

There is no Stealth Ram that fits a C4 without hood modifications. Quoting links to a different product is very misleading.

In the above threads I posted a direct phone number for anyone to call and have received may call including a few from unhappy black box customers. In due time the word will be out about the major flaws. In the mean time please feel free to form your own opinions and make your purchases accordingly.