E4ME carb problem

[Antz81]

Had some trouble with cold starting.
My carb had the choke valve removed for some reason so i got a replacement and fitted it.
Tried to start the engine. Won't start unless i have my foot on the gas and as soon as i take it stalls. If i try WOT it won't rev past 2000rpm. I also get huge clouds of smoke from the exhaust.
I'm guessing it just requires some adjustment.
Do i need to adjust the idle air, or idle fuel? or would it be both? Or am i on the wrong track completely?

 

[Peer81]

Sound to me like the mixture is way rich! You need to change the choke valve opening without change idle fuel or mixture screws. The thing you need and Lars's papers on Q-jet adjustments! All you need to know is in there!

Greetings Peter

 

[GerryLP]

Antz,

if your problem started after installing the choke flap, check your electric choke coil. When cold, and engaged to the choke flap lever (inside the electric choke housing), it should be adjusted so that as you turn the plastic cap, the flap moves, and it should be set when a 1/8" gap exists in between the flap edge and the choke tower. When the engine starts, the flap edge will make light contact with the choke tower, but the bimetallic coiled spring will be enough to work against the rush of air, and open the flap as it warms up. When the engine is warm, there is no need to enrich the fuel charge. Good luck.

 

[Antz81]

Thanks Peter and Gerry.
I've found a few of lars' papers. Sounds like the best thing to do for now is swap my carb out for the e4me (which has no obvious signs of tampering) I manage to pick up for nz$65 (around us$50!) and see if that runs any better while i go over the original.
I may have more questions later. Carbs are not my area. But electrical is easy. Currently working on a circuit to replicate the way the original alarm works, and i'm almost done there.

 

[Antz81]

Ok, small update. Was getting few thing ready to swap the carbs over and had a quick look at the choke plate again. It looks like i have put the link between the plate and the rod in backwards. I'll give that a try first. Too late to try starting the car now, but can do tomorrow after work.

 

[Antz81]

Started it up today with the link on the right way. One press on the gas pedal then turned the key. Never has starting her been so easy, She even seemed like she wanted to run.
Now all i need to do is check the dwell. And get my rear wheel bearing sorted, and a new windscreen (dam stonead) Then i can start using her again properly.

 

[GerryLP]

Started it up today with the link on the right way. One press on the gas pedal then turned the key. Never has starting her been so easy, She even seemed like she wanted to run.
Now all i need to do is check the dwell. And get my rear wheel bearing sorted, and a new windscreen (dam stonead) Then i can start using her again properly.

Great news, Antz!

It it never seems to end, but it will get better. I love it when an engine starts as it should.

Is the rear wheel bearing making noise or what?

 

[Antz81]

Great news, Antz!

It it never seems to end, but it will get better. I love it when an engine starts as it should.

Is the rear wheel bearing making noise or what?

Not making a noise that sounds like a bearing, but play is excessive. Figure I may as we'll just get it replaced while I'm fixing lots of things up anyway. (Future plans include a new paint job and interior) as ​for that alarm circuit, just need to work out a way to disarm it using the ignition if it hasn't been triggered.

 

[GerryLP]

...as ​for that alarm circuit, just need to work out a way to disarm it using the ignition if it hasn't been triggered.

I believe that the if the alarm goes off, turning of the ignition key won't start the car. So are you having a bunch of false alarms?

If you activate the door locks and say you leave a door ajar, the cabin light will extinguish and at the same time, the alarm will arm. If you close the door that was ajar, the alarm will sound.

 

[Antz81]

I believe that the if the alarm goes off, turning of the ignition key won't start the car. So are you having a bunch of false alarms?

If you activate the door locks and say you leave a door ajar, the cabin light will extinguish and at the same time, the alarm will arm. If you close the door that was ajar, the alarm will sound.

My control module has failed and doesn't work at all, so no alarms just does nothing.
When i said triggered i was referring to the alarm being armed, and then someone opening a door (or anything else that would set it off)
So basically if you are sitting in the car and then lock the doors, the alarm will arm, but then to disarm it all you would have to do is turn the ignition to 'on' or 'acc'. if someone has opened a door since it has armed the only way to reset it would be using the key in the door lock. (or unplug the module)

As far as I'm aware from what the manuals say the alarm shouldn't arm if a door is open.

If any of this is incorrect let me know because that will mean i need to redesign my circuit. (I now have one that should work as a direct replacement, just want to get a friend to look over it before a build it and test it.)

 

[GerryLP]

...As far as I'm aware from what the manuals say the alarm shouldn't arm if a door is open.

If any of this is incorrect let me know because that will mean i need to redesign my circuit. (I now have one that should work as a direct replacement, just want to get a friend to look over it before a build it and test it.)

Gail has done this since I bought her with 14,000 miles on the odometer, so I am not sure if what we see is a system malfunction or what, but there it is...

 

[Antz81]

Gail has done this since I bought her with 14,000 miles on the odometer, so I am not sure if what we see is a system malfunction or what, but there it is...

Both my owners manual and fsm say that the system shouldn't arm until all doors have been closed for 5 seconds. What you see could be a malfunction, or the door could be pressing on the switch just enough to allow the system to think it's closed. Without checking the reading at the switch I can't tell which it is. (That or both manuals are wrong, or i imagined reading it)

 

[GerryLP]

Actually, the shop manual only says that it should arm itself in 5 seconds either by the electrically operated locks or manually with the key. I believe that the system Arming itself has no design in it to detect or require that the door be closed all the way and not left ajar. It just arms itself from the timer.

 

[Antz81]

I knew it was in there. Read the last paragraph under arming.

 

[GerryLP]

I knew it was in there. Read the last paragraph under arming.

It does it with the right door as well. And interior lights do go out (not in the video because I didn't want to listen to the alarm the entire time :L. )

I am just guessing, but back in 1980 (when the shop manual was written) their technical writing was not like today (it is often driven by cost). But here is a hint. If the sensor was bad, it would not arm. And it would not detects when the door is opened (from an ajar position), right? It detects when the door switch completes the circuit. They say,"...till the last door closes", for there is not much of a point in arming the system if you are going to leave the doors ajar.

so in your case, it is arming the starter kill solenoid, which means it is detecting the door opening. So, perhaps the horn circuit? Or maybe the module is jacked.

anyway, I hope the system's diagram gives you new avenues.

 

[Antz81]

You make a good point about those courtesy lights. As you say yours are switching off meaning the alarm is seeing a closed door.
I know the problem i am having is in module. (I tested with a meter at the module to see what signals it's getting) but it just wont arm. (That or its not switching the horn and intrupt relay)
So what i have done is designed a new module for mine based around the way I read it should work and the diagrams for how the switches operate. The module i have designed will not arm if a door is open (if the courtesy lights go out its seeing a closed door)
I could just buy an aftermarket system, but would prefer one that operates like the original.

 

[GerryLP]

Antz,

Are you trying to achieve an ultimate goal with the alarm function (like adding/removing features), or is the alarm really not working as it should and the module is hard to find new?

I am sure making a custom one is child's play for you, but if ultimate protection is desired, then today's fancy alarm systems would be a better choice (remote starting, movement sensors, fire detection, and so on).

i always have wanted to put a solenoid valve on the fuel system to shut off fuel a minute out on the road, but I was concerned for vehicle control and coverage if the insurance company figure it out.

 

[Antz81]

Antz,

Are you trying to achieve an ultimate goal with the alarm function (like adding/removing features), or is the alarm really not working as it should and the module is hard to find new?

I am sure making a custom one is child's play for you, but if ultimate protection is desired, then today's fancy alarm systems would be a better choice (remote starting, movement sensors, fire detection, and so on).

i always have wanted to put a solenoid valve on the fuel system to shut off fuel a minute out on the road, but I was concerned for vehicle control and coverage if the insurance company figure it out.

The alarm simply will not work at all. If I could find a new module I wouldn't have bothered designing a replacement. I could go for a modern system, but where's the fun in that?:L
I also wonder how a modern system would take to it being park with the roof panels out and windows down.
That fuel cut of has made me wonder if I shouldn't add something that will prevent the engine from running at though, (after all that starter interrupt will only deter an opportunist)like cutting the feed to the fuel pump or distributor? But then again if someone really wants it they'll normally find a way around any alarm.

 

[GerryLP]

The alarm simply will not work at all. If I could find a new module I wouldn't have bothered designing a replacement. I could go for a modern system, but where's the fun in that?:L
I also wonder how a modern system would take to it being park with the roof panels out and windows down.
That fuel cut of has made me wonder if I shouldn't add something that will prevent the engine from running at though, (after all that starter interrupt will only deter an opportunist)like cutting the feed to the fuel pump or distributor? But then again if someone really wants it they'll normally find a way around any alarm.

And I was guessing that perhaps it would not help if you bought a used one since there is there is no way in determining if it works.

I would ask ask you to consider this. If your Vette is not completely stock or if you don't care if it is, then install one of those modern alarms. They truly are better than the stock one.

If your Vette is stock and you prefer it that way, check continuity on the wires and ensure they are fine. Then check for the correct volt reading, and see if that helps you isolate it....oops, sorry. I forgot that you are an electrician..... You know. :L lol

 

[Antz81]

And I was guessing that perhaps it would not help if you bought a used one since there is there is no way in determining if it works.

I would ask ask you to consider this. If your Vette is not completely stock or if you don't care if it is, then install one of those modern alarms. They truly are better than the stock one.

If your Vette is stock and you prefer it that way, check continuity on the wires and ensure they are fine. Then check for the correct volt reading, and see if that helps you isolate it....oops, sorry. I forgot that you are an electrician..... You know. :L lol

I know there are some used ones around but as you say know way of knowing if they work, or how much longer they will work for.

Most people here have respect for older cars and would even touch one without being told it's ok. Strangely enough everyone that has an older car has more troubles from tourists asking dumb questions about their cars. (like can you take a photo of me in it?:eyerole)
But I may consider a modern one. As you say a modern alarm would give me better protection. But may just go with a new module. Building one myself may be cheaper (or it might not be, haven't looked into costs of components yet), but if I do go with that option it would be because I would prefer things to be as close to original as possible.

My Vette is not 100% stock. The exhaust system has changed to true dual with long pipe headers and no cat. EGR and A.I.R are gone. Everything else is stock and would like to keep it that way if I can. (I probably wouldn't have made any changes at all, but the changes were made before I got her.) There is one or two other minor changes, but I'm going to change those back to stock.
And Yes all of the wires do have continuity and the correct voltages, all grounds are fine too. Believe it or not i do know electricians that may not have thought to check this.:L I did buy the car off an auto-electrician and found some strange things in the wiring that i had to fix. (example is one of the turn signal lights wasn't working because one of the wires had been cut and connected to ground so the lamp had ground on both sides:ugh)