Electrical Issues

[ND67]

Don - I tried it last night and could see no light.

Today, I started the car and it started to cough and sputter, even when I revved the engine it did it. I let it idle and the car stalled after several minutes.

Also, perhaps not related, but there is a chirping sound coming from the exhaust pipes. It's odd, not sure if it's been there all along or not. Has anyone experienced this?

Ron, you were right. I unplugged the reverse light plug at the firewall, and then checked the circuit for draw. It was still drawing. I also unplugged the clock and still had a draw.

I'm wearing down, I may need to take this down to a garage and have them take a look at it. I just hate doing that with older cars.

Is there anything else I can check?

Thanks,

Nick

 

[Ron Miller]

You're on the right track with your battery draw down problem. Yes, there's more you can do. You just have to keep checking everything on the circuit that is drawing the battery until you find the culprit. That's the same thing a garage will do, but I wouldn't give up on myself until you check a little further. I'll take a look at the wiring diagram & see if I can give you some suggestions.

I'd don't believe your battery drain problem is related to your rough idle & other noises. Your choke may not be opening enough causing the idle problem. If you don't feel comfortable about diagnosing that problem, I'd get a friend or someone familiar with carburetors to give it a quick look-see.

Just take them one at a time, and stay persistent.

rlm:cool

 

[Ron Miller]

Refer to your previous post where you determined the circuit causing your current drain. According to the fuse block on my 65, the tail lamps and the courtesy lamps are on two separate circuits. The courtesy lamps and the stop lamps are on the same circuit, however.

From top to bottom, the fuse block should be labelled as follows:

1. Brake Alarm Gas Guage
2. Heater
3. Radio
4. Panel Lamps
5. Tail Lamps (maybe something else, mine's blurred)
6. Courtesy Lamps Stop Lamps

Which of these fuses did you determine to be the cause of your current drain?

Rlm:cool

 

[Vetsvette2002]

Nick,
After you have removed the fuses one by one , checking for current draw after each removed, and you still have a draw, check the alternator for a short. I found one like that in my 67.
Don

 

[Subfixer]

Here's another source of a battery drawdown problem.... Check your cigarette lighter and make sure its not pushed in. It doesn't take much to make contact.

 

[IH2LOSE]

I'm wearing down, I may need to take this down to a garage and have them take a look at it. I just hate doing that with older cars.

OK take 2 deeps breaths and read thru this post again,all of the answers are here for determining how to correct this problem.I share yor frustration I have been there my self several time's just wanting to cry (but we are not allowed to cry right)

On what john is exspaining with the meter do you understand what he means? put the meter in series so that the electric has to go thru your meter Youll see if your clock is working and the doors are closed the only draw youll have is from the clock circut,disconnect the clock fuse the meter should go to zero,if not then you have a short some where,(leave the clock fuse out)

lets go further the clock fuse is still out and you still show a draw on the meter remove another fuse (still adraw)leave this fuse out also and keep going untill you find the one that allows the meter to read zero-If after going thru all the fuses you still have a draw then some where you have a ground connected to a live line.

This is the problem I had with my car when I purchased it.Follow you wiring diagram for your car.(I actually coppied mine from the book and had it blown up at a kinkos and put it on a peice of cardbord in my garage and followed each wire from start to finish on the diagram and on my car)

go to your diagram how many wires should be connected to the starter main post ? How many are connected? this is where I had found my problem one of the wires that was supposed to be the heater ground and the wiper ground and some thing else was connect to the power sourse.

subfixer also had a great thing to check I had a grand prix that I could not find a current draw in and it ended up being the cigarett lighter,All fuses out still had a draw the reason was that the lighter in the gran prix drew power from the alternator with a fusable link instade of a fuse in the box.

What is not working on your car electricly?

What type of a battery hold down do you have? any chance you POS battery terminal or cable is touching the battery hold down braket?

Lastley as john has stated CLEAN ALL connections

Good luck and remmber to have fun
bringing it to a mecanic he is going to do all the things that is listed above to find and fix the problem.

 

[ND67]

Okay.. I'm back at it today.

Ron, the fuse that shows the draw is fuse number 6. I just looked and you are correct, I confused stop lamps with tail lamps. Either way, they both work fine. At least they appear to. One thing that confuses me is can a light appear to work fine but have a faulty socket?

Don, I was thinking the same thing last night. How do I check the alternator? Do I use a similar method to checking the circuit?

Subfixer, good idea. I had not even considered the cig. lighter. I'll check that first.

Thanks,

Nick

 

[ND67]

IH2LOSE, I missed your post before.. I just printed it and will take it with me to the garage.

The batt hold downs are close to pos but not touching. I may put another felt on the pos terminal just to make sure.

I just checked the cig ligher, it is not pushed in. I may pull it out and check for draw anyway.

I'm really wondering about the alternator. How do I check?

Thanks,

Nick

 

[Ron Miller]

I suppose anything's possible; i.e., a light might appear to work fine but have a faulty socket. But, it's pretty doubtful if the light works properly. What I have seen is the wrong bulb used in a socket causing various problems. That is, put a double contact bulb into a socket meant for a single contact, or vice versa. By double or single contact, I mean the bulb has either a single filament (single contact) with a single contact point on the base of the bulb, or a double filament (double contact) with a double contact on the base of the bulb. In older American cars, Vetts included, the ground side of the bulb is always the metal housing of the bulb base, the other contact point or points being one or two contacts on the end of the base.

But, more to the point: If you've determined that the circuit with the Courtesy Lamp/Stop Lamp fuse is the one drawing power, it's now just a matter of tracking down which item on this circuit is responsible.
My wiring diagram shows the following items on this circuit:

Right hand courtesy lamp
Left hand courtesy lamp
Instrument compartment light (glove box)
Clock (not the lights for the clock, only the rewind mechanism)
Rear compartment lamp (rear compartment behind the seats)
Stop lamps

From here, I would go thru these one at a time, removing them from the circuit while checking each time with the amp meter at the battery as you did before to determine where the problem lies. In the case of lights and lamps, just removal of the bulb should do the trick to remove the item from the circuit. With the clock, you can unplug it at the clock, though it's a little difficult to get to. Leave it until last, if you like. (Does the clock work, by the way? If not, could be an internal short of some sort in the clock) Also, remove the taillight bulbs (outer stop lamps) in the same manner.

I'm not sure if your backup lamps are wired into this circuit or not, but it shouldn't matter in any event as you've already disconnected them and found you still have a current draw. So even so, they shouldn't be the source of the problem.

Since you know this circuit is at least in part the source of your problems, I'd proceed in this manner, saving other troubleshooting procedures until later, if necessary.

Let me know what you find . . .

rlm :cool

 

[ND67]

Team,

Today I tried several things and believe I made some progress.

First, I took what many of you said and cleaned/checked each electrical component and connection. I removed all bulbs and replaced with new, even bulbs that were old but appeared to work okay. Some were burned out or missing so it was a good exercise.

Secondly, I checked every electrical connection (at least that I could find). I examined wires and looked for loose connections. I even opened the glove compartment quickly to feel the light to see if perhaps it was hot, it was cold so I surmised that it does not stay on when the door is shut. I removed and cleaned the license plate light assembly. I replaced the burned out bulb and checked the ground wire before re-installing.

I also went out and purchased a digital ammeter (as some of you have suggested). I then went through and checked each circuit again. This time every circuit showed a draw. I began at the top and removed each fuse, then checked the meter. At each circuit the meter showed a reading of 15.6 or 15.7. Does that seem correct to you guys? I set the meter to DC Amperage. If this is not correct let me know and I will re-check.

I’m cautiously optimistic about this. I charged the battery tonight and will re-check everything tomorrow. I hope I got it but time will tell.

Also, taking a suggestion from JohnZ I removed the distributor cap and looked for cracks and moisture. It looked to be in very good shape. I also checked that all plug wires were seated firmly.

I still have many things to double check from your suggestions and will continue to do so. Let me know if I’ve missed something.

Thanks again everyone. As you can probably tell I’m not an electrician. This is my first Vette and it’s testing me.

Nick

 

[Ron Miller]

Let us know what you find.

rlm

 

[IH2LOSE]

Thanks again everyone. As you can probably tell I’m not an electrician. This is my first Vette and it’s testing me.

Nick

Hey nick you dont have to be an electrician or have electrical knowledge,Just be willing to get dirty and have an open mind,

If i understood you correct your saying that with all fuses out you still have a draw of 15.7 amps? If yes you definatley have a short in your mainpower wire.

 

[Vetsvette2002]

Nick,
Do you understand what "in series" means? (No offense meant!) A 15 Amp draw is a huge draw.

Disconnect the battery at the negative terminal
Connect the positive lead from your digital meter to the now disconnected battery wire
Connect the negative lead from your meter to the negative post on the battery

Now you can remove the fuses one by one until either the draw drops to zero or all of the fuses are out.

Once all of the fuses are out and you still have a draw, now you check the alternator for shorts.
Remove the red wire from the alternator. Draw - yes or no
No - Check the red wire for a short
Yes - reconnect the red wire back to the alternator
Now disconnect the 2 wire connector from the alternator. Draw - yes or no
No - replace alternator
yes - disconnect the red wire again (with the twin leads still removed. The draw should now drop to zero. Replace the alternator.

Don

 

[ND67]

Don,

Not sure what "in series" means.. I will recheck today using your steps noted above.

Thanks,

Nick

 

[ND67]

Don,

I followed your suggestions and found the following. Again, this is with my digital VOM set at DC Amperage.

Disconnected the battery at the neg. terminal, connected pos. lead from VOM to disconnected neg. battery cable.

Connected neg. lead from VOM to neg. post on battery.

Check each fuse and found a draw at each as listed below:

1. All fuses in place - draw = 16.2
2. remove fuse 1 (top) draw = 16.1
3. remove fuse 2 draw = 15.9
4. remove fuse 3 draw = 15.7
5. remove fuse 4 draw = 15.5
6. remove fuse 5 draw = 15.5
7. remove fuse 6 draw = 15.3

Will all fuses removed draw = 15.7

Alternator:

Remove red wire from alternator - Draw = 1.6
Reconnect red wire to alternator and remove 2 wire connector - Draw = 13.5
Disconnect both red wire and 2 wire connector - Draw = 1.2

Does this show a faulty alternator?

 

[Vetsvette2002]

Nick,
The way you just used the DVM is "in series" and yes, you need a new alternator. If it is the original, arrange to send it to John Pirkle for restoration/repair. If it isn't, just go to your FLAPS and replace it. Get a new voltage regulator at the same time. If it is the original, send it to J.Pirkle too. Total outlay at the FLAPS should be about $45

BUT...
Since you still have a big draw, 1.2 Amps, unplug the voltage regulator and do the same checks with the DVM. The new regulator should fix the draw...

If not
You definitely have a problem with the wiring. This will require checking each wire for a short to ground.

How to:
Disconnect the engine harness from the firewall - 2 plugs. The plug connector on the left is fro ignition and the one on the right is for lighting. Clean these now and be carefull on removal and re-installation.
Draw - yes or no
Yes. Short is in the engine wiring harness. Check each wire for the short by selecting either Ohms or Diode setting. My DVM has these settings as well as making a tone when shorted. Then, attach one end of a DVM lead to the main connector pin and the other to a secure chassis ground. If my memory serves me (carefull I sometimes suffer from Old Gray CRS Syndrome) none of the wires in these are a ground so you should see an OPEN display or what ever your DVM shows when the probes are not touching. You will find the wire that is shorted when the DVM reads about 10 Ohms (Ohms=Volts/Amps). Then tape up the area of the wire where the insulation has exposed the copper wire and recheck for short and after reconnecting the harness to the firewall, check for draw. If this is the original harness or shows signs of being Bubba-ized, get a nice new correct replacemant from Lectric Limited.
No. Check to verify that the meters probes are in the correct locations. The black lead should go into the recepticle marked as gound. The red lead should go into the recepticle marked AMPs. The other recepticle is for reading volts for the red lead.

Fell free to send me an e-mail and we can exchange phone numbers and discuss this voices. And not the ones in our heads
telling us to.....uh nevermind.

Don

 

[Vetsvette2002]

Nick,

Do you have AutoCAD at your office?.

I have both the 65 & 67 wiring digrams drawn in COLOR in AutoCAD.

Don

 

[ND67]

Don,

Thanks for your help. I've got a local guy who can probably do the alternator work. If not I'll send to John Pirkle.

I'll do the voltage regulator check tonight.

I don't have AutoCAD at work. I do have the wiring diagram though, let's see if the alternator/voltage regulator solves our problem.

Thanks again for your help, I'll keep you posted.

Nick

 

[Ron Miller]

If you've got something drawing that much amperage, you need to be cautious and re-think leaving the battery connected and unattended at night, could be hazardous even though it hasn't happened yet!

rlm:cool

 

[ND67]

Don,

I pulled the alternator and unplugged the voltage regulator tonight. Before I unplugged the voltage regulator (with alternator disconnected) I had a 1.2 amp draw. With both voltage reg. and alternator unplugged I drop to a .6 draw.

Do most older cars have a zero draw or is there always some small about of draw that should be expected? I'm sure some people hunt down the smallest of draws but what is the norm?

I'll let you know when I get the alternator back and installed. I also plan to get a new voltage regulator as well.

Ron - great advice. I thought I had left the neg. cable off but just doubled checked.

Thanks again to all who participated in this thread. I hope there are others who can gain from this.

Nick