engine temp

[Kid_Again]

Not sure I saw the following information in this post. I assume you have a Holley carb of reasonable quality. Which port do you have the vacuum hose connected to? Top or bottom? There's a port off the front metering plate and also one on the carb base (ported and unported). Since the idle is now low and there is no difference in idle quality when you pull the hose to the can, sounds like a vacuum leak to me. Is the "other" vacuum port left uncapped? Whatever it is, it's simple to fix.

 

[JohnZ]

1. Oil has absolutely nothing to do with it.

2. Your idle is WAY too low - 365's want to idle at about 900, and will produce reasonable vacuum (9"-10") at that rpm. Set it up - screw on the driver's side of the carb with a little coil spring around it.

3. Your vacuum advance is not working, which is retarding your timing at idle and cruise; either you're not getting a manifold vacuum signal at the vacuum port near the top of the pass. side metering block, the fitting is loose, the hose is cracked, or the vacuum advance can isn't working. Dunno which advance can you have, but it should be a NAPA/Echlin #VC-1810, stamped "B28" on its mounting bracket.

4. Thermostat MAY be a contributor - I'd change it - the best one is the Robertshaw #330-180, also repackaged and sold by Mr. Gasket. GM has a new thermostat gasket with molded-on silicone beads that works great - GM P/N 10105135.

5. Dwell setting should be 30*.

6. The choke linkage (and the inside of the round black housing) apparently needs some attention.

If you were next door, it wouldn't take me fifteen minutes to dope this out; your mechanic should be able to do the same.

 

[Vette66AirCoupe]

Barry,

You've got a ton of advice but in my opinion you need to stop hypothesizing (is that a word?) and start eliminating some things. As John says, 15 minutes and he could dope this out.
1. Get that #@%&*#$ thermostat out of there, take the car for a ride and post the results.
2. Turn that idle up to 900 RPM's, pull that vacuum hose off again and plug it up with a suitably sized bolt screw. Now go look at the tach and see if there was any difference in idle speed at all. Post that result.

I do agree with your mechanic about the fact that it would be puking if it was really running that hot. I'm betting my '66 has the wrong sending unit in it. I put a 180 degree thermostat in it and it goes up to about 225 degrees on my recently calibrated gauge and then drops quickly to 210 on the gauge as the thermostat obviously opens. Cruising it sits right on 210 day or night. I turned the A/C on in traffic the other day in the heat and it ran up past 240 on the gauge. I brought it home and left it in the driveway as I was sure it would puke but guess what? Didn't happen!

For what it's worth, I'd be shocked if it turned out to be the oil or the fuel vaporizing.

 

[BarryK]

Sub, you are asking ME where he's coming up with these ideas? I don't know sh*t and it sounded like BS to me too.

Kid, my carb is the stock Holley 2818. I'm posting a pic to show where the vacuum hose is connected to the carb since I can't accurately describe it myself.

 

[BarryK]

1. Oil has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I thought that sounded like a load of BS myself but was reporting what HE was trying to tell me.

2. Your idle is WAY too low - 365's want to idle at about 900, and will produce reasonable vacuum (9"-10") at that rpm. Set it up - screw on the driver's side of the carb with a little coil spring around it.

yep, I know it's way too low. L76's should be around 850-900rpm's at idle. It was at around 750-800 when I picked the car up from the shop last week but during my driving yesterday it dropped and has stayed down. This started approx. the same time frame the temps started climbing real high.

3. Your vacuum advance is not working, which is retarding your timing at idle and cruise; either you're not getting a manifold vacuum signal at the vacuum port near the top of the pass. side metering block, the fitting is loose, the hose is cracked, or the vacuum advance can isn't working. Dunno which advance can you have, but it should be a NAPA/Echlin #VC-1810, stamped "B28" on its mounting bracket.

I'm not sure what can it is, I ordered it from LICS last year along with the other parts when I had the distributor rebuilt. it has the number 236 on the mounting bracket. none of the fittings seem loose to me and the rubber hose doesn't have any cracks in it - I checked that earlier today.

4. Thermostat MAY be a contributor - I'd change it - the best one is the Robertshaw #330-180, also repackaged and sold by Mr. Gasket. GM has a new thermostat gasket with molded-on silicone beads that works great - GM P/N 10105135.

When I was at NAPA this morning I got a new T-stat and they sold me one which is NAPA branded #530090. Box says it's made by Standard-Thomson Corp. I hope it's the right one.

5. Dwell setting should be 30*.

I'm going to try checking that this afternoon.

6. The choke linkage (and the inside of the round black housing) apparently needs some attention.

If you were next door, it wouldn't take me fifteen minutes to dope this out; your mechanic should be able to do the same.

John, what's your address? I'm packing and moving to your neighborhood!

John, please see my responses above between your questions.

 

[BarryK]

Terry
not sure I have enough time today to drain off the coolant, replace the T-stat, refill and test the car out. Linda and I are leaving in a little while but if not I'll do it first thing in the morning and post the results on here.
I can at try try to turn up the idle a bit though this afternoon and also try to get a reading on the dwell.

Tomorrow I'm running out to see if sears has that dial back timing light Jack mentioned. Than I just have to learn to use it

 

[BarryK]

ok all
I just checked the dwell and at idle it was reading at 35 on my multi-function meter with the vacuum line disconnected from the can and plugged. It did not change readings as I increased the revs at all nor did it change at all if I reconnected the vacuum hose back into the can.
Is 35 too high? John (JL66RedCpe) mentioned dwell should be between 28-32.

 

[ctjackster]

ok all
I just checked the dwell and at idle it was reading at 35 on my multi-function meter with the vacuum line disconnected from the can and plugged. It did not change readings as I increased the revs at all nor did it change at all if I reconnected the vacuum hose back into the can.
Is 35 too high? John (JL66RedCpe) mentioned dwell should be between 28-32.

hey man, you're getting those hands greasy! Barry out in the garage, checkin his dwell . . . . you da man! Factory spec for dwell for your 65 L76 is around 30 deg. 35 is out of spec, your next move into grease monkey lnad is to find the correct-sized allen wrench (easier to do when car is not running) and, while the car is running with the dwell meter hooked up (and reading the "8 cylinder" scale!) insert the allen wrench into the allen screw found just inside the distributor "window" when the metal window is raised - when adjusting you will see an impact on the dwell shown on your meter. get it to around 30.

you are still going to have to solve what would appear to be a sticking or broken vacuum advance - it is hooked up correctly from your picture.

 

[Vette66AirCoupe]

Barry,

Your mechanic gets an "F" for not setting the dwell before setting the timing. As noted previously, make double sure you are reading the 8 cylinder scale! By the way, with that multi-meter you probably have a tach reading. That will make it easy to see if you are getting an RPM drop when you disconnect and plug the vacuum line to the vacuum advance. 35 degrees? Hmmm. Does anybody know which way the dwell goes as the points wear?

 

[BarryK]

Jack, yep, my hands are dirty!

ok, found what I think was a LARGE part of the problem. The #@&*%@^ mechanic plugged the vacuum hose right where it hooked up to the carb port. This explains why unplugging the hose from the can made no difference. We found this out when my neighbor stopped over with a vacuum gauge and we found NO vacuum on the system. We removed the plug and we had vacuum - plugged it into the vacuum can and immediately the idle jumped up. I had already turned the idle up on the carb so had to turn it back down to a proper level of 850.
Next we adjusted the dwell back down to 30.
Guess what........ BEFORE we found the plug on the vacuum line the car had only been running at idle for maybe 5 minutes or less and the temp was already at 215 or so but as soon as we removed the plug from the vacuum line the temp started dropping and within just a few minutes we were at 185 or so.
Next my neighbor hooked up the timing light and found it a bit high....... with the line unplugged from the can timing was about 16 at idle. It should be at around 12. It started to rain real hard so neither of us wanted to start changing the timing without being able to make test runs in the car so we stopped here for today. Tomorrow morning I'm running out to buy a dial back timing light and we will start adjusting the timing than.
Pretty good progress for an idiot (me ) and a very friendly and helpful neighbor.

 

[BarryK]

Terry, it's worst than that, he gets double F's for plugging the vacuum line. Well, another mechanic I'll never take my car back to again. In one year that make three already.
I walked in from the garage and told my wife I've had it and unless something truely major happens like the motor completely blows up it's not going to anymore mechanics. I'M learning how to do this stuff and will work on the car myself.
Why pay a mechanic to screw up my car when I'm perfectly capable of screwing it up myself?!

yes, the meter does have a TACH scale and I used that rather than my dash tach to reset the idle.

 

[ctjackster]

listen, any time a mechanic tried to tell you your car is running hot because you used the right wieght oil but one with some more detergents in it (Diesel oil) it is time for one thing and one thing only - get another mechanic, becuase that mechanic obviously (1) takes you for a fool and (2) is quite prepared to lie to you.

next he'll be telling you your flux capacitor was broken and he replaced it for you, and he only charged you $150 to do so . . . .

 

[Vette66AirCoupe]

Barry,

Just curious. How was that line plugged? That's why I always use a screw or something with a head on it when I plug a line like that. That way you can't forget it's plugged and reconnect the hose like he did. What did he have in there?

 

[BarryK]

Jack
when he tried to blame the engine temp on the oil while on the phone with me today my eyes rolled up in my head. I mean, I may be dumb but I'm not stupid. What a load of crap!

and I know the problem isn't my flux capacitor because I have a back-up one wired in series so if the first one failed the second one takes over.

 

[JL66REDCPE]

Barry,

Just curious. How was that line plugged? That's why I always use a screw or something with a head on it when I plug a line like that. That way you can't forget it's plugged and reconnect the hose like he did. What did he have in there?

Let me guess -- he used a small ball bearing -- right ????

I use a golf tee to plug the hose.

I am reading this from Frederick, MD. Glad to hear you found the problem. I almost fell off my chair when I read the "oil" post.

Buy a distributor wrench while you are at Sears.

 

[BarryK]

John
nope, it was just a small rubber plug. here is a pic below - sorry it's a bit blurry, the cam didn't like shooting so close.

Good guess on the ball bearing though, that's what another mechanic used last year when that one did the same thing.

Mechanics seem to love plugging up the vacuum lines on my car for some reason!

 

[Subfixer]

Glad to see you are getting it straightened out. When you get to setting the timing with the vacuum can disconnected and hose plugged, the spec is 10* advance. Once you get it set, lower the idle a bit more to make sure the timing doesn't change (less advance). I do this to make sure the centrifical advance isn't coming in at idle. Then plug the vacuum can back in and reset the idle to spec.

Now you know how to do all this timing & tuneup stuff and how to check things for proper operation. Wasn't that easy? Good thing your neighbor was around.... I was about to pack my bags. I really hate when people are being taken advantage of.

 

[BarryK]

Paul
10* advance at idle? My '65 shop manual lists 12* as nominal (10*-14* range).

Don't say i know how to do all this stuff yet - I don't, not by a LONGGGGGG shot.
I still have to learn how to use the timing light i'll go buy tomorrow.

i'm assuming that once I read the timing at idle (we got a reading of 16* today) and the hose plugged, than to lower the timing down to 12* I just loosen the distributor holddown bolt and than just rotate the distributor until I get a reading of 12*?
After than I unplug the vacuum line and reconnect it to the can and get the new total timing? I think total timing should be around 34*?
or am i missing steps here?
do i only read timing at idle or do I need to read it with the motor revved up a bit also?

I REALLY hope that timing light comes with a very easy to understand instruction book! :ugh

 

[ctjackster]

Paul
10* advance at idle? My '65 shop manual lists 12* as nominal (10*-14* range).

Don't say i know how to do all this stuff yet - I don't, not by a LONGGGGGG shot.
I still have to learn how to use the timing light i'll go buy tomorrow.

i'm assuming that once I read the timing at idle (we got a reading of 16* today) and the hose plugged, than to lower the timing down to 12* I just loosen the distributor holddown bolt and than just rotate the distributor until I get a reading of 12*?
After than I unplug the vacuum line and reconnect it to the can and get the new total timing? I think total timing should be around 34*?
or am i missing steps here?
do i only read timing at idle or do I need to read it with the motor revved up a bit also?

I REALLY hope that timing light comes with a very easy to understand instruction book! :ugh

yeah baby, now we're talking - getting ready to use the dial back feature! Read up on the Lars' method of setting timing, which is quite useful for an L76 - likely some advance is present in order to have the revs at some level that doesn't kill the engine. To paraphrase, you rev her up to where the timing is "all in" (when it is no longer advancing, for you likely around 2300 rpm) and, having set your dial back gauge on your light to 36 or so, set the timing at the zero hash mark. Vac can disconnected and plugged.

It's such a proud moment when our little man takes his first steps . . . .. somebody get a camera <sniff> . . . .

 

[Vette66AirCoupe]

Barry,

You set the initial timing at spec idle speed with the vacuum hose disconnected and plugged. Yes you rotate the distributor to change the timing. JL gave you some good advice. Buy a distributor wrench while you are at Sears. It looks like a giant "C" or "Z" depending on the manufacturer. It allows you to loosen the hold down bolt by holding the top of the wrench above the distributor cap. When I bought my '66 the previous owner threw in his version of a distributor wrench. A box end wrench cut off to a length of about 2.5 inches! I said to myself, what the hell is that??? Just loosen it enought that the distributor will move with resistance, if it's too loose it just causes problems trying to get it tightened back down without bumping the distributor and changing the timing. Now I don't remember what size the wrench is. Someone here probably knows, I think it's 9/16. I have two in the box, one for Ford products and one for GM. Very good investment! By the way, set that dwell first after the motor is warm, then the timing. Your timing advance is is controlled by the vacuum advance as well as mechanical advance from weights inside the distributor that fly out pulling against little springs. Pop the distributor cap off and unscrew the two screws that hold the rotor on and you can see these weights. You can't screw up putting the rotor back on as one side has a round peg and the other a square peg......and you know the old saying, you can't put a square peg in a round hole! Good luck, I hope to read nothing but good news outta you when I return from my trip! Outta here~