GM's buyers reject 'Obamamobile' Volt as campaign heats up

[6 Shooter]

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Republican Lutz criticizes GOP for telling 'lies' about the car, costing U.S. jobs

www.autonews.com

 

[67vet]

Dumb comment from Gingrich was a joke.
I can not put a gun rack in my 2012 Grand Sport Convertrible Corvette either.

Lighten up Lutz, you are probably getting more advertisement for less money this way.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Lutz could have made hay with those comments and turned them around instead of being offended by them.

 

[LLC5]

Politics has nothing to do with Volt sales. The vehicle itself, and it's ridiculous price point for a four seat family vehicle, is what is hurting it. Lutz needs to man up and realize that he made a huge mistake in letting it go to market. I am not saying that it a bad vehicle, just that it makes no economic sense, which is a huge decision factor in any family oriented vehicle. No flames intended, just my opinion.

 

[6 Shooter]

GM's EV1

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[Tom Bryant]

I think GM hurt it'self here by offering the Cruze with 42 mpg at about half the price. If they could sell the Volt at a competitive price to someone like me who lives within the electic only range from work it would be something to think about. I wonder how long it would take the car to pay for it'self having to never buy a drop of $4. gas?

Tom

 

[catbert]

Development of the Volt began in the first Bush administration with no gov. involvement. The GM bailout happened at the end of the second Bush term. Obama was handed the administration of the loan. How is this car an Obamamobile? Never let the truth get in the way of a good political rant.

 

[6 Shooter]

"I wonder how long it would take the car to pay for it'self having to never buy a drop of $4. gas?"

T - A bit of time with an excel spreadsheet and ya could solve the math problem/how long it would take to pay for a Volt.

You'd have to know the person/Volt owners distance from work, stores and such?

How constant do ya think electricity cost will remain?

I guess we should keep gas prices as a variable too!

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L8TR - D

 

[Tom Bryant]

T -
How constant do ya think electricity cost will remain?

L8TR - D

I don't know. I was figuring on plugging it in at work. We have several guys that plug in their deisel trucks all winter so what's the difference? :L

 

[catbert]

Here are my Volt figures based on 7,000 plus miles experience. I use at least 14 full charges a week or 728 full charges a year. Let's assume that the 40 miles per charge is a gallon on gas - if you get 40mpg. That's 728 gallons of gas saved per year. Assume a $4.00 gallon price just for the hell of it - that's $2,912. My electricity costs here is $1.05 for a charge - or about $764 a year. The gas savings, for me, should be over $2,100 per year. Routine maintenance, as prescribed by GM for the Volt is also lower as the gas engine needs fewer routine oil changes - far fewer.

So, at a couple grand a year, will I save a tons of money over 5 years - no. I WILL have kept a couple grand from going to OPEC through the hands of big oil, who takes their share off the top. That's a big part of the reason I bought the car. What about the power plant pollution? In most places they are switching over to natural gas as fast as they can afford to do it. Natural gas is becoming plentiful, and the price is stable, or even going down. It's obviously much cleaner burning than coal, as is wind and nuke.

So putting the political nonsense aside, buying a Volt either makes overall sense to a person - or it doesn't. Sounds like the purchase of a Vette. Not many people break even on a new Vette purchase either. We buy them because we want to, and we don't name them after the guy who happens to be in the White House when they are built or designed.

As a bonus, the Volt is a sweet riding and great handling car. The battery weight is low and midship, and it handles better than the Cruise, even on low friction "mileage" tires.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

So, at a couple grand a year, will I save a tons of money over 5 years - no. I WILL have kept a couple grand from going to OPEC through the hands of big oil, who takes their share off the top.

Sorry, false. Only 9.8% of oil consumed in the US comes from the middle east. 49% is domestically produced. The number 1 foreign supplier is Canada, followed by Mexico.

 

[catbert]

Sorry, false. Only 9.8% of oil consumed in the US comes from the middle east. 49% is domestically produced. The number 1 foreign supplier is Canada, followed by Mexico.

I said OPEC, not the middle east. OPEC includes huge exporters that are not in the middle east - like Venezuela Nigeria and Algeria. Although approximately 40% of America's oil comes from domestic oil fields in states like Texas, Alaska, and California. Some of this DOMESTIC oil is actually sold to other countries, such as Japan. The other 60% of the US oil supply is from foreign sources. Contrary to popular belief, however, the US has very diverse oil interests all over the world, and receives oil and petroleum products from almost every continent on Earth. Canada, Saudi Arabia, Colombia, Nigeria, Angola, and Iraq all contribute sizable amounts to the US oil supply. America also imports oil from Kuwait, Norway, the United Kingdom, Venezuela, Equatorial Guinea, and Algeria. Numerous other countries ship refined oil products to the United States to supplement the output of American refineries.

So we export 60% of our crude dollars, and the fact that a lot goes to Canada and Mexico doesn't change the fact that the bucks are gone. That might partly explain the healthy economy in the Great White North. And all the money goes through the hands of the oil companies and traders. No matter where it comes from, I want to minimize my consumption of it.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

So we export 60% of our crude dollars, and the fact that a lot goes to Canada and Mexico doesn't change the fact that the bucks are gone. That might partly explain the healthy economy in the Great White North. And all the money goes through the hands of the oil companies and traders. No matter where it comes from, I want to minimize my consumption of it.

Canada is your biggest international trading partner, in fact it's the largest foreign trading arrangement anywhere in the world. 'Trade' means you sell stuff to us as well as buy. The US is a net exporter of petroleum products- in fact it's your number 1 export right now. The money the US makes with the export exceeds the money spent on import of the same goods.

 

[Mac]

This is posted to share the satirical parody as opposed to picking political sides.

Hilarious Chevy Volt Spoof | MRCTV

My two cents: if automotive manufacturers experiment with vehicles like the Volt, we would all be driving black Ford Motel T and nothing else. The Volt isn't perfect but I've yet to own a car that was perfect. No, I haven't purchased a Volt, partly because I'm still unhappy with the corporate welfare and partly because the Volt doesn't suit my needs.

-Mac

 

[Tuna]

Politics aside - and they should be - the Volt is a great car on its own merits.

My wife and I like our Volt.

 

[Mac]

Politics aside - and they should be - the Volt is a great car on its own merits.

My wife and I like our Volt.

I think that's what catbert is trying to say as well.

Going forward, I hope the Volt leads to more innovation, better efficiency, improved cars.

-Mac

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Politics aside - and they should be - the Volt is a great car on its own merits.

My wife and I like our Volt.

I'll agree there- the Volt is an excellent technology demonstrater. Hopefully GM and other OEMs will learn from this project to make this type of car more commercially competitive and affordable to more than just a niche market. I suppose in some way it reminds me of when cell phones first became available- very expensive bricks that only worked in a limited area. After struggling with one of these for a few months:



we 'upgraded' to this darling



that seemed at the time to be the limit of what technology could ever achieve. I still remember the first time I heard 'can you hear me now?' I'm sure we'll look back some day and wonder how we even got along with gas-only cars.

 

[killain]

Chevy 'Volt" and the white house ?

Development of the Volt began in the first Bush administration with no gov. involvement. The GM bailout happened at the end of the second Bush term. Obama was handed the administration of the loan. How is this car an Obamamobile? Never let the truth get in the way of a good political rant.

Thank you, I've been trying to make this point for awhile now. The 'Volt is a one time purchase and besides getting the $7500.00 tax credit, is a car for someone who lives in or close to a city or town with a secure place that has been modified with a 220v line installed and the car is protected. There's no way you can own this car if you live in an apartment with on street parking alone. The facts that this car needs 220v to have the ability of a 3 hour recharge, and not the 110v charge which takes 10 hours, and to the odd fact that the little 'Puppy' engine that powers the generator needs Premium 91 octane, ( which I still don't know why a stationary engine powering a generator needs 91 octane) but never the less, it is a nice start to considering electric powered cars. The useful "envelope" for these cars is small and it's cost is way to high to put any faith in it being a true hybrid, it has nothing to do with a Toyota Prius, and it's only competition is the Nissan 'Leaf'.

However, something that has always bothered me is that if you look at any Hybrid on the market, and it is that at the end of the day and you go home, what are you going to do? Plug in your electric car, this on top of the air conditioner, and the entertainment system, and shortly your electricity needs to prepare a dinner and all this in the scope of an electric grid network that is old, extremely ready to fail. No one can understand what a failed electric grid is till you have found yourself at 68th & 11th. Avenue and trying to get to and through the Lincoln Tunnel as I did in 2003. It's 87 degrees, all of the bumper to bumper traffic is paralyzed by the fail traffic lights and the police are overwhelmed, and really can't control a damn thing. it took 7 hours to just get to the New Jersary turnpike southbound.

So in the end the Chevy Volt is only as good as the small segment of consumers interested in them and the hopes and frightening aspect of a damn near to total failure of our electric grid. I am quite convinced that Al Qaeda is also very interested in how much it will take to permanently shut in down. Although the same electricity that is in short supply for your 'Volt' is needed to power the gas station pumps, so I assume it doesn't matter what you drive, electricity is our only salvation. Now that is a scary political parody. But I understand Newt Gingrich is already promising $2.50 gasoline, so the situation is in hand and we all will be fine no matter what. The Chevy 'Volt' and the 2012 elections have the same, (I'm sorry) voltage.

 

[67vet]

GM suspending Chevy Volt output due to slow sales: GM suspending Chevrolet Volt output due to slow sales

 

[Hib Halverson]

Here are my Volt figures based on 7,000 plus miles experience. I use at least 14 full charges a week or 728 full charges a year. Let's assume that the 40 miles per charge is a gallon on gas - if you get 40mpg. That's 728 gallons of gas saved per year. Assume a $4.00 gallon price just for the hell of it - that's $2,912. My electricity costs here is $1.05 for a charge - or about $764 a year. The gas savings, for me, should be over $2,100 per year. Routine maintenance, as prescribed by GM for the Volt is also lower as the gas engine needs fewer routine oil changes - far fewer.

So, at a couple grand a year, will I save a tons of money over 5 years - no. I WILL have kept a couple grand from going to OPEC through the hands of big oil, who takes their share off the top. That's a big part of the reason I bought the car. What about the power plant pollution? In most places they are switching over to natural gas as fast as they can afford to do it. Natural gas is becoming plentiful, and the price is stable, or even going down. It's obviously much cleaner burning than coal, as is wind and nuke.

(snip)

That's the first "real" numbers I've seen on Volt ownership comparing "electron mileage " to "gas mileage". Very interesting and obviously, judged only on mileage the Volt's a winner but I have trouble with the whole Volt "thing" once I start comparing the difference in cost between the Volt and an equivalent gasoline burning car. How long will it take, at the rate of fuel savings, to recover the increased cost of the Volt.

Also, where's the number for the gasoline used by the Volt's 3-cyl engine? My understanding is that a Volt only goes about 40 miles on a charge then the gas engine has to run.

As a bonus, the Volt is a sweet riding and great handling car. The battery weight is low and midship, and it handles better than the Cruise, even on low friction "mileage" tires.

When you say the Volt handles better than the Cruze, I have some questions...

1) Is that a subjective opinion or is it an objective conclusion based on some kind of performance testing of the two cars?
2) Which version of the Cruze are you talking about? I could accept the idea that the Volt handles better than a base Cruze LS but a Volt, which is 600+ pounds heavier, handing better than a Cruze with the uplevel suspension and bigger wheels and tires...
Nope. Sorry. I ain't buyin'.

Also, the statement about the source of electrical power. 2010 is the last year for which I could find data and for that year, in the US, the amount of electricity generated by coal-fired plant was about double that of natural gas fired plants. I'm not sure I agree with the idea that natural gas fired plants are as plentiful or becoming as plentiful as "catbert" would have us believe. I'm not doubting there is a changeover occuring, but I do argue the magnatude and the speed of this changeover.

Lastly, the idea that OPEC is still this huge supplier of oil to the US is just not valid...at least not any more. The majority of the oil we import comes from Canada and Mexico, neither of which are OPEC members, so buying a Volt just to spite OPEC is really not acomplishing much.

My prediction is that the Volt will fail in the wider car market because it cannot compete with equivalent gasoline powered cars. If there were no Federal, and in some cases, State tax incentives, the car would be even less competitive than it is now.

Just remember folks, each of us has paid a tiny bit for "catbert" to own that Volt. The tax incentive he received for buying that car is "paid for" by everyone else who pays taxes but doesn't take that incentive.

We all should ask "catbert" to give us a test drive. I'll be the first in line because I want to see if a Volt handles as well as a Cruze.