Half Shafts

[Bob Chadwick]

I had done the driveshaft first last year. They had noticeable play in them.

 

[gec]

I picked up new u-joints today, jacked the car up & noticed I had some play in the right rear wheel, figured the bearing was shot so i removed the caliper & disk, disconected the outer halfshaft & the spindle nut was only finger tight, I torqued it down to 100ft lbs re-installed everything & the shake is gone...is it possible that some wingnut forgot to torque the nut? I bought the car about 3 weeks ago, it sat for a long time & had the rear end re-built before I bought it, I only went for a short drive but its noticeably smoother & I'm not hearing any squeaks or feeling any heat from the bearing.

 

[Bill75]

OK everyone....I'm going to replace the driveshaft and halfshaft U-joints. Currently they are non-zerk joints (Spicers). Would you replace with the same or opt for ones with fittings? This car is currently an L-48 but might have a crate engine someday 300-350 hp but will never see the track, street only. I'm wondering if the fittings will take enough strength away from the joint to be an issue.

Thanks

Bill

 

[JohnZ]

I picked up new u-joints today, jacked the car up & noticed I had some play in the right rear wheel, figured the bearing was shot so i removed the caliper & disk, disconected the outer halfshaft & the spindle nut was only finger tight, I torqued it down to 100ft lbs re-installed everything & the shake is gone...is it possible that some wingnut forgot to torque the nut? I bought the car about 3 weeks ago, it sat for a long time & had the rear end re-built before I bought it, I only went for a short drive but its noticeably smoother & I'm not hearing any squeaks or feeling any heat from the bearing.

I'd check the other side too - did it have a cotter pin through the castle nut that holds the flange on the spindle? It's supposed to - if it loosens up, it can tear up the bearings in a hurry.

 

[JohnZ]

OK everyone....I'm going to replace the driveshaft and halfshaft U-joints. Currently they are non-zerk joints (Spicers). Would you replace with the same or opt for ones with fittings? This car is currently an L-48 but might have a crate engine someday 300-350 hp but will never see the track, street only. I'm wondering if the fittings will take enough strength away from the joint to be an issue.

Thanks

Bill

U-joints with grease fittings will work just fine; joints without fittings don't become important until you bolt slicks on it with LOTS of motor.

 

[Bob Chadwick]

All 6 of my Spicer u-joints have the zerk fittings. The whole issue of zerk v. non-zerk can get nasty so I just didn't mention it.

Keep em lubed up and they will service 99% of the cars with absolutely no problems.

 

[Bill75]

OK guys, that solves that issue. Thanks for the reply!!

Bill

 

[gec]

I'd check the other side too - did it have a cotter pin through the castle nut that holds the flange on the spindle? It's supposed to - if it loosens up, it can tear up the bearings in a hurry.

Yes it did have the cotter pin in, that's what I find strange that someone would only finger tighten the nut & put the pin in. When I torqued it down the grease that pushed back out did not seem burnt, I'd think that if the bearing was burnt right out the wheel would be screaming like crazy. I was going to get to the u-joints & check the other side today but ran out of time.

 

[KANE]

And they make nice yard decorations.

GREAT IDEA!!!

Seriously bobchad-

How would you rate the impact of the usage of the halfshafts as suspension components over the life of the car? The reason I ask is I am thinking of getting another C3 in a year and I am thinking about getting a kit to take some of the load off the halfshafts. I never really got into them on my '78.

 

[TWINRAY]

If you try to put the u-joints in without taking them to a shop, make sure you support the flange when trying to get the old ones out. I remember the first time I was working on them, I kept beating the s**t on the old u-joint and ended up buying a new flange, which isn't too cheap.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

GREAT IDEA!!!

Seriously bobchad-

How would you rate the impact of the usage of the halfshafts as suspension components over the life of the car? The reason I ask is I am thinking of getting another C3 in a year and I am thinking about getting a kit to take some of the load off the halfshafts. I never really got into them on my '78.

They typically outlast the rest of the car so there's little or nothing to be gained. The cost of any modifications would never be completely offset by the minimal savings to the stock suspension.

 

[Bill75]

Thanks Twinray! Hey how did the front end job work out that you did?

I wasen't as brave as you, I had the shop put in my front springs, ball joints, control valve etc. I'm not real happy with the handling though, it's way too stiff for me. I liked it better before they worked on it.

Bill

 

[Twin_Turbo]

They typically outlast the rest of the car so there's little or nothing to be gained. The cost of any modifications would never be completely offset by the minimal savings to the stock suspension.

They don't outlast the rest of the car, the usage of the 1/2 shaft as the upper camber control member is the reason why so many C3s have a problem with worn stub axles, center pins, missing c-clips (or clips ground to pieces) the loas on the bearings are tremendous because of this. Any wear on the stub arrangement will translate into camber problems and over time will be so big that the stock cam bolt can't set enough camber and people resort to bending strut rods or adjustable sleeves, the problem is the stub axle/center pin. I have yet to find a diff that has no degree of wear in that area.

 

[KANE]

They don't outlast the rest of the car, the usage of the 1/2 shaft as the upper camber control member is the reason why so many C3s have a problem with worn stub axles, center pins, missing c-clips (or clips ground to pieces) the loas on the bearings are tremendous because of this. Any wear on the stub arrangement will translate into camber problems and over time will be so big that the stock cam bolt can't set enough camber and people resort to bending strut rods or adjustable sleeves, the problem is the stub axle/center pin. I have yet to find a diff that has no degree of wear in that area.

WOW!!!

So, what about the C4? My next idea would be that going with the tubular C5 chassis and a C3 ody would be better.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

They don't outlast the rest of the car, the usage of the 1/2 shaft as the upper camber control member is the reason why so many C3s have a problem with worn stub axles, center pins, missing c-clips (or clips ground to pieces) the loas on the bearings are tremendous because of this. Any wear on the stub arrangement will translate into camber problems and over time will be so big that the stock cam bolt can't set enough camber and people resort to bending strut rods or adjustable sleeves, the problem is the stub axle/center pin. I have yet to find a diff that has no degree of wear in that area.

The poster asked about the half shafts, not the innards of the diff. Yes, the stub axles do wear and occasionally need replacement, but this happens perhaps once during the lifespan of the car. The total cost of replacing these parts would never come close to offsetting the cost of changing the suspension over to a different system as previously mentioned.

Modify it for whatever reason you want, just don't try to claim it's for economic gain.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

What's up w/ your hostile reply? His question was:
"How would you rate the impact of the usage of the halfshafts as suspension components over the life of the car"

So, the fact that the 1/2 shaft is part of the suspension geometry is the cause of the stub axle & center pin problem, they are cause and effect. My reply has nothing to do with economics, just answering that question. Where am I talking about replacing it for a different system? You are reading stuff that is not there. Fact is, the rear suspension does not have a particular great camber curve, fact is there are toe control problems with the single hinge point trailing arm setup. Does a 6 link kit handle the camber control better? The answer is yes, does it handle the toe control problems (toe oversteer with bump/rebound) ? No, for that you need a sectioned trailing arm setup like the C4 has so that the suspension can move through it's arc without the trailing arm influencing the toe setting, why do you think the C4 got a toe control rod and a pair of sectioned trailing arms? This was to keep the toe setting throughout suspension travel.

As for occasional replacement, this depends on what you do with the car, some of them need replacing after as little as 30K miles, if you seriously use the car that translates into more than once in the lifespan of the car, also if you autocross or otherwise do some serious cornering it will only get worse.

Just because someone has another opinion than your reply you don't have to go into hostile mode.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

There's nothing hostile about my reply to the original poster, nor do I believe that my reply to you was any more hostile than yours to me. But I'm not the one complaining.

I was simply trying to answer the poster's question, and am not interested in initating a debate with you on how you interpret the original question. I regret offering an expanded version of what I originally stated.

If I have missed the intent of his question, that's for him to decide, not you.

Have a nice day.

 

[Bill75]

Problem

Well, I removed the half shafts and sent them to the shop and had new U joints installed. I don't know if they pressed them in with a press or used an Impact hammer, I know they used an impact hammer to get them out, I watched him do one of them.

When I came back to get them he said one of them on the flange was a real ***** to remove, I noticed the marks on the metal. I also noticed that they all moved easily except this one, while it would pivot by hand, it was noticably stiff. It sure didn't look right to me but he said it would settle in.

I installed them and noticed that the side with that flange was stiff when I turned the wheel by hand at one point in the tire rotation. Took the car for a ride with no problems, vibration I had before was gone, no noise no sense of anything wrong.

Jacked the car up, rotated the tires and the stiff point is still there. In fact it actually pushes the wheel assembly up slightly when it reaches that point. I checked all the U joint bolts and flange bolts, all are tight. The 1/2 shaft flange sits flat on the axle flange also.

This wasent there before and I can't imagine it's right, but I can't figure out how he could have done anything to create this kind of problem. You really have to push on the tire to get it past that point. Could I possible have installed them wrong? I didn't see any particular orientation of the flange on the axle.

I just tried something....The car is on jackstands with the rear suspension hanging. I put a floor jack under that shock mount and lifted the suspension slightly. When I turned the wheel now with it raised a little, everything is smooth. Could it have something to do with the weight of the suspension on the rear end????

 

[Bob Chadwick]

That flange may need to be replaced. The guy told me right up front that they can bend when being removed and that they might need to be replaced.

 

[JohnZ]

I just tried something....The car is on jackstands with the rear suspension hanging. I put a floor jack under that shock mount and lifted the suspension slightly. When I turned the wheel now with it raised a little, everything is smooth. Could it have something to do with the weight of the suspension on the rear end????

It's normal for that interference to occur at the outer U-joint flange, causing the "bump" when you turn the wheel, when the suspension is hanging in full rebound; the original shocks were designed to limit rebound travel so this didn't occur, but most generic replacement shocks allow excess rebound travel. In any event, this can't occur while you're driving unless you "get air" :eyerole

When replacing the outer U-joint, a knowledgeable shop will bolt an old flange to the one on the shaft or use a similar tool made from 1/4" plate to reinforce the flange while removing/installing the U-joint, as it's easy to bend the flange without reinforcing it, and then it's history.