Header installation

[Vettefan87]

I thought I posted this earlier, but it must of not went through. I got everything taken off the car except the stock exhaust manifolds, due to not being able to remove the dipstick. How do you remove that dipstick so the new headers can fit? I took the front Y down with the cat on it, since I could not break it loose. Now I am torn between putting it back on, or just getting like a test pipe the same size as the cat, and just running it like that... Any suggestions? (they do not do emissions testing here where I live )

 

[rrubel]

Once the one bolt is removed that holds the dipstick in place, you can twist it back and forth and it will loosen so you can pull it free from the block - it's just held by friction. You might find when you put it back that you'll have to bend it a bit, and the old bolt won't reach to hold it on. Mine's attached to an AIR tube with a screw-type hose clamp.
[RICHR]

 

[C4Tom]

If you remove the cat and use a 'test pipe', it may not work. I believe the computer uses a pre- and post- O2 sensor. If it doesn't, you should be okay. Did you see two O2 sensors while you were under it?

 

[rrubel]

His car isn't OBD-II, so there's no post-cat O2 sensor. Mic thinks he's having problems, though, because the O2 sensor is further downstream with his headers and not getting hot enough to go out of closed-loop.
[RICHR]

 

[C4Tom]

Then before he puts the headers on...he needs to take them to a shop and have an O2 bung welded to the collector, that should take care of that problem. Although I thought they came with a bung on the passenger side collector???

 

[Moonunit 451]

His car isn't OBD-II, so there's no post-cat O2 sensor. Mic thinks he's having problems, though, because the O2 sensor is further downstream with his headers and not getting hot enough to go out of closed-loop.
[RICHR]

I have my o2 sensor past the headers with no problems.

 

[rrubel]

Then before he puts the headers on...he needs to take them to a shop and have an O2 bung welded to the collector, that should take care of that problem. Although I thought they came with a bung on the passenger side collector???

Driver's side. The issue, he thinks, is that the sensor is about 14" further downstream than originally designed and the exhaust is cooling too much. That, or there's another issue.
[RICHR]

 

[Vettefan87]

Header installation DONE

The headers come with a bung already in place for the O2. The bung for mine is right in the collector is that where everyone elsees is?

Well talk about a real PITA. At least for me it was. First off there was that piece of dirt or w/e in the headers. Then the bolts would not go through them so I had to drill them out. The front Y would not fit on so I had to cut about 1 inch relief cuts in them, four in each pipe, and it STILL isn't on all the way. I had to take a notch out of one of the little A arm things that come off the crossmember and go into the frame, I could not get one of those bolts on because one of the primary pipes in the headers is right where that needs to be. I could not get the lock ring on the EGR pipe, how do you crimp that thing? Um what else...... well I am sure I will think of something.

Now the car it seems is running rich, since it is backfiring. It did it once, then did not do it for a while, then seemed to do it three times in a row, so I just shut the car off. The coolant got to 198 and the fan did not come on, if there is no coolant in the block since I drained it will the fan not come on? The radiator level kept going down, and I was filling it

 

[C4Tom]

Yes...that's where it's suppose to be.

I'm guessing that you cut the pipe to get it over the reducers??? Those should be welded to the pipe, then you bolt them to the headers.

Backfiring happens when it runs lean, not rich. I'm sure it will need to be driven to allow the computer a chance to recalibrate. The headers allow it to breathe better so it's taking in more air. If the backfire doesn't stop, you may need to go with bigger injectors. Then again...maybe you got plug wires crossed.

No, if there is no coolant reaching the sensor the fan will not come on.

 

[Mad-Mic]

why did you drain the coolant? remember to let the car WARM up past your T-Stat temp and leave the radiator cap off the car so it purges the air out of the system.

are these TPiS headers? i threw them on mine in 4 hours with 2 pit stops to the parts store! you shouldn't have any problems and it ALL should line right back up in the stock cat position.

BTW i wasn't going to pull my dipstick out as it was corroded in. so i just cut a 1/4" gap in the header flange to put the dipstick past. makes it alot easier and the strength is still there. MOST headers are only flanged at the primary tubes and don't run across all 4 tubes.

hope this helps.

The headers come with a bung already in place for the O2. The bung for mine is right in the collector is that where everyone elsees is?

Well talk about a real PITA. At least for me it was. First off there was that piece of dirt or w/e in the headers. Then the bolts would not go through them so I had to drill them out. The front Y would not fit on so I had to cut about 1 inch relief cuts in them, four in each pipe, and it STILL isn't on all the way. I had to take a notch out of one of the little A arm things that come off the crossmember and go into the frame, I could not get one of those bolts on because one of the primary pipes in the headers is right where that needs to be. I could not get the lock ring on the EGR pipe, how do you crimp that thing? Um what else...... well I am sure I will think of something.

Now the car it seems is running rich, since it is backfiring. It did it once, then did not do it for a while, then seemed to do it three times in a row, so I just shut the car off. The coolant got to 198 and the fan did not come on, if there is no coolant in the block since I drained it will the fan not come on? The radiator level kept going down, and I was filling it

 

[WhalePirot]

My TPIS headers went on quite easily. I don't understand the cutting and all the difficulties.

A test pipe sounds like a decent idea, because the way this engine was running prior to the headers.

 

[Vettefan87]

The headers went on fine. I didn't have to move anything not even the starter. I removed both coolant sensors on both sides since I was not sure if the headers would clear them, and I didn't want to scratch the headers up, with putting them in, then having to take them out. That and I followed TPIS instructions starting from the mufflers and taking everything off that way. The reason the Y pipe wont fit on is my guess the coating on the headers.

For some reason the one piece coming off of the crossmember just would not fit. I had to take a little notch out of it to slide up past the header. When I get the car back up in the air and put the rest of the exhaust on I will take a picture.

I thought that the backfiring was unburnt fuel being combusted, how would a lean situation make it "pop". It is the same noise that it made when the car was running rough and one, or more of the wires were bad.

 

[Vettefan87]

A test pipe sounds like a decent idea, because the way this engine was running prior to the headers.

I did not get a chance to really listen to it other then Idle, but it started and stalled four times, and I still had to keep it running for about 15 seconds until fast idle kicked in. I am sure that is probably from going to full exhaust with three cats, pretty much open headers. I did not throw any codes so that is good.

 

[C4Tom]

I thought that the backfiring was unburnt fuel being combusted, how would a lean situation make it "pop". It is the same noise that it made when the car was running rough and one, or more of the wires were bad.

A bad plug wire can cross cylinders to cause a backfire. A lean condition causes the cylinder temp to rise which can ignite incoming fuel causing a burp through the TB. Is your backfire coming from exhaust? Is the backfire under idle only?

Another thought... maybe you cracked the distributor or knocked it off location during the process???

 

[Vettefan87]

I marked the wires with masking tape and a sharpee marker. I guess it is possible one is crossed but it seemed to idle okay... Could the headers be putting out to much heat around the boots of the plugs and interupting the spark? I did not see any arching, but wasn't really looking for it.

 

[Vettefan87]

Will the backfiring hurt the motor. If I have it running and it starts backfiring am I in trouble of messing something up? I am just not sure where to start with this. I am not even sure if it is coming out of the exhaust or not, If that is the case am I okay, or could it just be It is running to lean, meaning I need more fuel right?

 

[Vettefan87]

Okay guys, I started it up and it idles funky. When the coolant was around 150 it would idle between 7-900 rpms, never staying constant. That is probably due to the ECM still not knowing what is going on. I put the fuel pressure gauge on it and upped it about one pound to see if that would help. I checked the routing of the wires and the ones I marked are going to the correct plug. It popped twice and it sounds like it is coming from underneath the car where the Y pipe lets out. So is that normal? I mean it is LOUD, you can clearly hear it over the open exhaust. The fuel pressure now is around 41-42. It was hard to see an actual amount since it was somewhat idle searching, and the gauge was flucuating. I just wish I had the Xframe on it so I could take it around the block and see how it runs. I idled it up to about a 1500 and when I let off it popped again. Suggestions fellas? I have to get this sucker running. The weather here is beautiful.

 

[rrubel]

If it's just lightly popping when you let off the gas, that may be normal for your setup. One thing that nobody's mentioned yet is the need for proper backpressure. Among other things, it keeps too much air/fuel mixture from being drawn out the closing exhaust valve while the intake valve is opening. Too much backpressure will keep some of the burnt gasses in the cylinder (improper scavenging) and too little will draw fresh mixture out where it might be combusting from heat/pressure in the exhaust. Maybe.

Mine pops a tiny bit with the headers and free-flowing cat, and I think Mic's used to more when he had open cat and no mufflers.
[RICHR]

 

[WhalePirot]

If it's just lightly popping when you let off the gas, that may be normal for your setup. Mine pops a tiny bit with the headers.

Mine does, too. With the cat or w/o it. It's a bit of raw fuel, and I believe your car is running rich, finally igniting in the exhaust.

 

[Vettefan87]

That is what I thought, but C4Tom said that it was a lean condition, but I think he was responding to if it was in the engine, which I don't think it is because it sounds like it is coming from the underneath of the car. So what do I need to do just bring down the fuel pressure a little? Because once it warms up it starts doing it frequently. Or should I try to bring up the timing a little, but that will be hard to hear if it is knocking with the exhaust so darn loud.