I have a rumbly...

[82ColEd]

And another note: This morning, it fired up (way too quick, actually, it started with a bang, guess the cleaner/solvent is flammable, eh? ) but the passenger side headlight bucket didnt come up all the way. Closed it again, reopen: Same thing, so i helped it up. Now, closed again, it's a bit low in the mold. :eyerole

Ah, yes, Houston, we're having a problem. :ugh

Methinks, it's related to the other issues, obviously, and we're having a bit of a vaccum leak around the TBs now..

C'mon RockAuto..

(Just checked Order Status: All items are shipped and in Fedex's hand. Fedex says they'll have them Arrive on Apr. 11 at 6pm. Hot dang. I 'll believe it when i see it.. )

 

[82ColEd]

:BOW
Fedex just dropped the parts at my house and collected yet another 30 Euro for Customs. So that makes $262 + $50.. $310, but quick as lightning from the US.

26 year old car outside of it's home base = EXPENSIVE.. :W
-Start repeating: I knew that before i got head over heels into it.. :ugh

I shall take inventory tonight and hopefully get the car done tomorrow. In the meantime (last night, driving home), it got even odder (is that even a word? ):
I punched it, someone got on my nerves and i needed to loose them, after that it ran like crap. Idled lower, somewhere around 600, but dipped into the low 300's, almost stalling out. So, driving home, i flipped it out of gear whenever i hit the brakes, idle at the light around 600-700, kick it back into gear and hop, off we went.
What people must think.

It'll be a 6 million $ car after we're done, and i better get a NASA patch..

(Actually, i cant wait, to see if this does it and the car goes back to normal, smooth, operation. :cool)

 

[82ColEd]

Ok, i am missing something here: ;help

Got the IAC's, but they do NOT have the gasket on them or in the box, anywhere.. ad

So, i need you guys help: Could someone tell me the measurements of the gasket? A) where does it go (Before the thread starts, looking at it from the 'pintle' side, or on the fat part, where the threads are?

Also, whats the thickness, i could possibly get them here (comparable), if i know that so i can get this sorted before i go on vaca.. If not, ah well, but the EGR Valve had the correct gasket, so i assumed the IAC's too. eergghhh

Here are some pics of the IAC out of the box:
In the box:

With it's protective cap on:

Protector off:

Closeup of the pintle-top:

Another shot of the top:

I could spit right now.. :Weyerole

 

[82ColEd]

ok, i went through the tuning article again and found this image:

So, gasket is for under the threads. I also found some gasket material i had from the old hause, i will try and make my own and use the 1/32 for now. Until you guys tell me different..

Ah, yes..

 

[82ColEd]

ok, i finally found the gaskets: They were stuck to the TB and brittle.I managed to get one off whole, but one broke. So fab'd 2 out of the 1/32 gasket stuff i had, but after running around all morning, not finding the right ones, i will have to order them from the US. ad

Fabbed ones on the left:

I tried to test the new IAC's, but they didn't move when i turned the key (Do i have to start the car???), maybe the old ones are good after all..

Mounted new IAC's:

And for good measure, the new EGR Valve (At least that came with the right gasket, the old one is falling apart):

Managed to get the connector off the CTS, but prying on the Sensor itself is fruitless, i probably gonna spray it with WD40 and let it sit for a little. Man thats a tight spot in there.

And yes, i am trying to document the steps, for future use, maybe.

 

[wishuwerehere82]

Stephan,

The thickness is 0.030"
Inside hole dimeter is 0.830"
Outside diameter is 1.220"

It fits on the base of the threads on the flat face of the motor.

Doh!! 6 minutes too late.

You may want to pull the fuse in the battery box to reset the ECM now that you have the new parts on.
My concern is that the gasket thickness may prevent the AIC's from seating completely to the air intake on the TB's, but hey- give it a shot. 1/32" is darned close to what the originals are, and mine may be squashed a thou. or two.

 

[gmjunkie]

If they have the same thing as Hardware stores over there,try there!! Our Tru-Value Hardware store has all Sorts and Sizes of Fiber,Copper,and Aluminum flat O-Rings for repairing Air and Fluid Valves and Water Faucets!!Our Hardware store has Bailed me out at least once a month!!! Thats where I get the small stainless screens to sandwich between 2 EGR gaskets to keep chunks of carbon out of EGR valves!!

 

[82ColEd]

Stephan,

The thickness is 0.030"
Inside hole dimeter is 0.830"
Outside diameter is 1.220"

It fits on the base of the threads on the flat face of the motor.

Doh!! 6 minutes too late.

You may want to pull the fuse in the battery box to reset the ECM now that you have the new parts on.
My concern is that the gasket thickness may prevent the AIC's from seating completely to the air intake on the TB's, but hey- give it a shot. 1/32" is darned close to what the originals are, and mine may be squashed a thou. or two.

Pete: Thank you for measuring !! I really appreciate it
I think the fiber material ones i fabbed are darn close and i tighten it pretty good, it feels much tighter then before (IAC seating). And i'll be ordering the proper ones soon. I don't plan on leaving my Bubba-Fied versions in there. :ugh

Really wondering about the movement when i tested them though.

I shall reset the ECM by pulling the fuse. Man, i am on the learning curve here.. :cool

If they have the same thing as Hardware stores over there,try there!! Our Tru-Value Hardware store has all Sorts and Sizes of Fiber,Copper,and Aluminum flat O-Rings for repairing Air and Fluid Valves and Water Faucets!!Our Hardware store has Bailed me out at least once a month!!! Thats where I get the small stainless screens to sandwich between 2 EGR gaskets to keep chunks of carbon out of EGR valves!!

Jesse, send a TruValue store over.. Man i am missing that store right now. We had a NAPA and a TrueValue close enough to get to for just those days. But i have to find something similar here first. One of the joys of not being familiar with your own 'hood anymore, after 10 years, things have changed a bit. The car places had nothing even close, and if it was close, inner circle wise, it was thick like a chunk. :crazy

It was kinda funny to see their faces though, when i explained the car and what it was good for. I had brought an IAC and the face just went blank. :eyerole


I did a little shake down run, filled up the tank and added the injector cleaner. Went for 5 miles and it warmed up a bit. Results:

Idle when cold, choke on: 900 RPM
Idle when warm(er), choke off, in Park: 800 RPM
Warm, in D, but standing, 700 RPM.

It sounds a bit more stable, but we still got a little shaker going. This is with the new IAC's, new EGR Valve, but the old CTS, as i cant pry that thing outta there. My neighbor (and Landlord, who has a Viper RT; we always swap war stories about getting stuff for our cars from the US ;squint lend me his 6in1 lube to soak the Sensor overnight. We shall see if i can move it tomorrow. Unless you guys know of a trick to get into that spot (Without dismantling the entire upper accessories).

Also, how much coolant am i expecting to come out of that CTS hole? hnoes


And just to say it (I know i am using a lot of server space Rob, sorry ): You guys are awesome and so is the CAC !

-Stefan

 

[gmjunkie]

lend me his 6in1 lube to soak the Sensor overnight. We shall see if i can move it tomorrow. Unless you guys know of a trick to get into that spot (Without dismantling the entire upper accessories).

Also, how much coolant am i expecting to come out of that CTS hole? hnoes


And just to say it (I know i am using a lot of server space Rob, sorry ): You guys are awesome and so is the CAC !

-Stefan

Like I said,I'm not much of a Cross Fire Guy,But if you can get on it with a Deep Socket!! Warm the engine Good and just break it Loose,(Sometimes they brake loose easier with Heat!!)and then let the engine cool and you won't loose allot of coolant as long as there is no pressure on the cooling system!! Or you can loosen the Rad Cap to relieve the pressure and then tighten the cap!!

 

[wishuwerehere82]

You're going to have to put a few miles on it in all kind of driving conditions before the ECM re-calibrates completely.
But it sounds better than it was.

 

[gmjunkie]

You're going to have to put a few miles on it in all kind of driving conditions before the ECM re-calibrates completely.
But it sounds better than it was.

I agree!! I forgot to mention that!! Beat me with a Heater Hose!!!

 

[wishuwerehere82]

Like I said,I'm not much of a Cross Fire Guy,But if you can get on it with a Deep Socket!! Warm the engine Good and just break it Loose,(Sometimes they brake loose easier with Heat!!)and then let the engine cool and you won't loose allot of coolant as long as there is no pressure on the cooling system!! Or you can loosen the Rad Cap to relieve the pressure and then tighten the cap!!

Mine's still in storage, otherwise I would check it out for you. But I think I just put a box wrench on it to get it off, maybe a socket? No pressure, not much loss if you swap it fast and get the new one on quick.

 

[82ColEd]

Allright, it's not coming off.. I tried all sorts of wrenches, boxed, socket, with elbow attachments and without, nada. ad

I managed to get all the other parts off of it (the plastic caps etc). :eyerole And one of the parts will die a slow, melting death; it wedged itself between the water pump and the engine block. That was the last part to cover the 'metal' connector of the CTS, now the wires and plug with the nose go without any cover to the newly uncovered CTS hole. yey :eyerole

But as much as i pried, no movement at all.. We are going on vaca tomorrow (different car) and i'll be back Friday. Then i'll take the car to the local general mechanic and see if they can pull that thing out for me and put the new one in. Maybe a air wrench can get that out. Methinks, 26 years of heating, cooling has tighten it in there.

Also: The pigtail for the new connector doesnt have a description on it, which cable goes to what color. Any ideas ? I have a yellow and a black coming from the cable tree/engine side, or doesn't it matter? Don't want to fry the new CTS right off the bat.

Once the CTS is replaced i'll pull the fuse too..


Thanks so far for all the pointers, you guys are great!


PS: I replaced the vapor canisters filter. Very easy job, but what is that granular stuff that fell out? Charcoal? Or solidified CO2
I had seen it at Rockauto and figured it needed replacing anyway (And i had wanted to do it for a long time, never got around to doing it). Plopp and off went the cover with the pipe piece on it.. But i must have had a cat pee on that side of the car, it smells awful.. Time for a car wash.. Yuk..

 

[wishuwerehere82]

Also: The pigtail for the new connector doesnt have a description on it, which cable goes to what color. Any ideas ? I have a yellow and a black coming from the cable tree/engine side, or doesn't it matter? Don't want to fry the new CTS right off the bat.

The yellow wire goes to the center contact of the sensor, and the black wire goes to the outer one. I don't think the black wire is grounded to anything, but ohm it out to make sure neither sensor contact is grounded to the outer housing. It should just be a thermistor inside, which really won't care which wire is hooked where. Can you post a picture of the new CTS with the connector located near it without plugging them together so I can get a good look at the contact configuration?

 

[82ColEd]

Here ya go, i hope you can make heads and (pig)tails out of it, sorry my cam isn't that great, if you need a sharper image, close up or something, let me know and i'll try with the other camera:

Pigtail:

Closer look at the connector:

The CTS:

And plugged together:

On the connector, it has a A and B but thats about it..

I'll try for the mechanic today and wont connect it just now.

 

[wishuwerehere82]

Wow, you really can't tell one wire from another on that connector can you? I'm going to see if there is any info out there on the www for this. Be back soon!

 

[wishuwerehere82]

Ok, found a resource here.
http://www.crossfire.homeip.net/twinnie/Image1.jpg

It looks like the original CTS has one of the wires going to the case ground inside the sensor. That would be the black wire, so ohm out the sensor to see if one of the leads is connected to the threads on the sensor where it screws into the manifold. If so, then connecte the black wire to it and the yellow wire to the other one.
If neither are case grounded, it won't matter. It's a thermistor.

P.S. I had to replace my water pump yesterday. After I took the A.I.R. pump off, it was real easy to get to the CTS. I don't understand why it wouldn't come loose with a box wrench straight on it from the top.
The threads must be fused to the aluminum manifold. Maybe a little tapping on the wrench with a hammer will break the threads loose. I see the new CTS has anti-seize compound on the threads.
If you need clearance, take the pump off.

 

[82ColEd]

Allrighty:

First, i ohmed the Sensor: No grounding to the sensor wall that i can measure from either of the cables.

So i took the AIR Pump off, as you suggested.
What a PITA. Tried to just take it off on one side and slide it out of the way: No way. So off it came.

With the AIR Pump off, it finally moved. I had to pull on the wrench with my whole body and it finally went (and my elbow went into the side of the car too :ugh).

I had to use all my strength (which isn't much, but..) to get it to turn on every single turn.. The scrapes on the line (Fuel, i presume) are from my previous attempts. :eyerole

But the 26 year old CTS is out: :bang
And it looks rather crappy. The connector for the sensor cables was wiggling in it's holder. :nono

And the new one went in (rather quickly, as i did loose a little fluid):

Now, the new one didn't go in smooth, but i had to use my full strength again, pulling on it with both hands and getting a little further each pull... In 26 years, I'll be cursing myself.
Also, i didn't get it all the way in (I don't think the old one was either), but there is half an inch of threads left, but thats the most i could get it. I also don't want to over tighten it and damage the front of the sensor (I don't know the inside clearance). But it appears to be tight, no leaking.

Phew... Now the easy part: Black went onto 'A' and yellow onto 'B', connected it and the AIR Pump went back on (With some convincing, as the bracket seems a tad bit tighter then the bolt holder :eyerole).

I pulled the fuse (30Amp) in the battery compartment and did a shake down run. Initially it didn't seem to make a difference but it smoothed out a bit. I don't think it's 100% there yet, but i have hopes it will be on the next few drives. The Idle seemed smoother at the end of the run and it wasn't shaking as much anymore.

One more thing though, that i noticed:
While i had the AIR Pump off, i looked at the front (Where the belt connects) and that didn't seem to run perfectly round but lopsided. It turns (and the more i turned it, the smoother it became), but it seems crooked. And i couldn't get in there to check on it, seems shuttered with something (I took the 5-6 screws out, but no movement).

Anything i need to do? It seems to be working ok, as far as i can tell, the motor is running the Pump ok.


But: It seems that we're there with the other stuff, so a big
THANK YOU
to all, but especially to Pete.

Couldn't have done it without you!

I'll come back to this thread in a week or so to update on the idle, i should be driving the rig to work, so it has some time to get acquainted with the new parts.

 

[wishuwerehere82]

Good to hear that you got it fixed.
I'm going to upgrade mine sometime in the future, so It's nice to know that the swap worked on the CTS.

P.S. Don't worry about the air pump until it sounds like a rock crusher.
And don't take it apart. It's impossible to get back together again.
I speak from experience.

 

[82ColEd]

Okay: Partial week over, here are the stats:

First start: Engine goes to 1000-1200RPM until put into gear

While running on Choke: 1000 RPM in Park/900 in D

Once out of Choke: 700RPM..

It's a lot smoother then before, but still has a bit of a shake. Where is my 500RPM ? :cry

Also, this morning i had a drop when going from choke to non to about 300 RPM, almost killing the engine, while making a left :ugh
;squint: but recovered rather quickly.

And the passenger side headlight is slow. So, we might still have an issue with Vaccum and something else My Brother in Law is sending the IAC gasket's, should be here soon. Once those are in, i'll test it again to see if the symptom's come back.

We shall see..