interesting response and a discouraging one

[Greg Gore]

Oops…I should restate that. With the main throttle part way open when you move the choke butterfly by hand the fast idle cam should move along with it. If it moves without binding and does not stick it is operating properly. It could still be out of adjustment, however. The steps on the fast idle cam are staged to occur at various degrees of choke opening. A common adjustment procedure often in various shop manuals would be to place the fast idle screw on the second step against the stop and with light finger pressure moving the choke toward the closed position measure the opening at the top. There will be a spec for this and a convenient way to measure is with a drill bit. My goal would not be to blame anyone but you did pay a premium price to rebuild your valuable original carburetor and you received back a leaking unit. You said he was not very helpful and not very willing to work with you on this. For this reason I would favor posting something so others can be forewarned. They are not making anymore original components and we don’t need folks with poor or indifferent attitudes destroying these things unnecessarily.

Regards, Greg

 

[BarryK]

well, I found the problem and I fixed it!

When I was looking in the shop manual again trying to understand the workings of this whole thing i noticed they had a section for accelerator linkage adjustment. Well, I had never adjusted it, i just put it back just as i had left it when I removed the carb to send it out. I figured I might as go thru and make the adjustment so that I knew it was proper as specified in the manual. When doing so I noticed that to follow the book's procedure I ended up changing the length of the accelerator rod ( a threaded swivel adjustment) and just for the hell of it i figured i'd check to see if by any chance it would make a difference to the choke operation. It worked! To be sure I waited another hour for the car temp to drop again and just tried it again and it worked.

Now, the choke closes properly when you first tap the gas on a cold motor, as soon as it starts the choke plate opens somewhat, and after letting it warm up by tapping the gas the choke goes off completely, the butterfly is locked in the fully open position, and the idle drops to normal level - all as it should be.

Unbelievable that all this effort, time, trouble, etc and it wasn't even in the operation of the choke but an accelerator linkage adjustment.
To be honest, my making that adjustment was nothing but pure dumb luck otherwise i'd still be fighting it.

Thank you everyone so much AGAIN for your help and knowledge. If it makes a difference, it wasn't a waste of time as this whole thing has really helped me learn a lot and understand a lot on how the choke system works of which I was entirely clueless before. Next time I'll probably be able to do it without a 3-page thread!

 

[JohnZ]

Good for you! Glad you found the problem - frequently, going "back to basics" (in this case, throttle linkage adjustment) is a big help!

Now, if you wad up this whole thread, you have "Automatic Chokes 101"

 

[Bwmurph]

Barry,

I think I'll have you come down and look at my carburetor's / choke / linkage and make sure I've got it all set up right. You are obviously the expert on these things at this point !

This is NOT a joke; the choke on mine hasn't been right for quite a while either (even after re-building) and I'm just living with it.

Bernie O.

 

[BarryK]

John, I'm guessing I don't have too much more to learn about automatic chokes huh? I sure got a pretty intensive crash course over the last two days.

 

[BarryK]

Barry,

I think I'll have you come down and look at my carburetor's / choke / linkage and make sure I've got it all set up right. You are obviously the expert on these things at this point !

This is NOT a joke; the choke on mine hasn't been right for quite a while either (even after re-building) and I'm just living with it.

Bernie O.

geez Bernie, YOU are the one I call in an emergency when I need hands-on help! You asking ME means you are surely desperate

you know you are more than welcome to come over any time you want and we can pull your car in and we can take a look at it. Your system I'm sure is WAy different than mine but i'm willing to try and learn a new one now. Please tell me you have the shop manual for your motor or at least the carbs. If not, maybe we can find something online that will help us.
Hey, i have the garage space for you to pull in, my new toolchest, and we can take a look at it but you really are dregging the bottom of the barrel asking me for help but i'm more than willing!

Hey, did Wendy like your new blanket?

 

[Bwmurph]

Barry,

The blanket went over real big; not as big as the one of the pets, but that was to be expected.

I figure you are THE MAN at this point when it comes to setting up chokes. The one on mine (original 2 x 4's for '59 270 HP) looks very similar to what yours looks like. I've got an old tune up guide and shop manual and I believe the basic operation is about the same.

Maybe I will bring it over some day, or maybe I should just be a little more like youa nd just keep reading, asking questions, and persevering until I can figure it out myself. I'm just not the most patient guy in the world.

Bernie O.

 

[BarryK]

Bernie, i know it may be hard to believe, but i'm about the most impatient person you could ever meet. that's why i get so frustrated on things like this.

Bring the car over, we can have some fun learning your system together - at least it should good for a few laughs

 

[I'mAVettehead]

Did you tell the rebuilder?

 

[BarryK]

Did you tell the rebuilder?

from his initial response and seemingly lack of care from my last conversation I don't think he cares one way or the other. What would I tell him, that the choke issue was partly my fault for having an incorrect accelerator linkage adjustment? Yes, it came back to me and the choke wasn't coming on at all and I do think that was an adjustment mistake on his part but the rest was an adjustment issue on my part so no real use complaining to him on that or complaining about the work on the because of that.
At this point the carb is working great so as far as I'm concerned I'm happy.

On the leak issue, I suspect after thinking about it a little while I was playing around with the choke that i kept having to fool with the throttle to allow the choke to open and close and each time I did that of course I'm squirting fuel into it. sometimes I had to play with the throttle a lot meaning I'm shooting a lot of fuel into it. I wonder if that may have been a reason for any leakage because honestly now that i think about it, until I starting fooling around with it to work on the choke issue there wasn't any leaks and it's been sitting now since mid-afternoon since i solved the problem and there hasn't been a leak since. The leaking only occured during the time I was fooling with everything working on it. Makes me wonder if somehow I was just overloading the carb with fuel and it had to go somewhere??? I don't know but i'll keep an eye on it for the next few days and if i don't see anymore leaks than I'll not worry about it.

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Good for you! Glad you found the problem - frequently, going "back to basics" (in this case, throttle linkage adjustment) is a big help!

Now, if you wad up this whole thread, you have "Automatic Chokes 101"

John has hit the nail on the head...!!! Back To Basics....!!!!

Hot Damm ..Good for you Barry..!!! This thread only confirms the Value of this Forum and The Excellent Advice and Camaraderie and Love of the Corvette.

It just goes to show that you never give up..the answer to your problems are always around the corner.

I'm Proud to be a member of this great Forum...

Great work everyone for your helpful advice and and congrats on finding the problem Barry..!!

 

[BarryK]

thanks Mark

you know, i'm sure that someone with experience and knowledge most likely would have found out the problem very quickly as opposed to taking 2 or 3 days, and a 4 page thread, but as everything I do I pretty much have to learn from scratch it takes me a LOT longer but I just force my way to muddle thru it until I find the answer somehow. This time was pure dumb luck but it worked and i learned a lot for the future. At least all the steps I had to go thru really helped me understand the workings of the choke system so in that aspect it was worthwhile. If any of the wonderful advice given had worked and solved the problem immediately I wouldn't have learned nearly as much as I did with what I ended up going thru.
Yes, i'm VERY happy to be part of CAC.

 

[Kid_Again]

...yup, it is REALLY sad how "experts" position themselves to suck money out of all of us.....

....i have relied on only a few people on this forum as references to certain rebuilders/reconditioners/suppliers. The rest of the guys just make a living out of being parasites.

....since you demonstrate the ability to tackle fairly complicated projects on the car anyway, i urge you to do your own work because it should be obvious to you now that you can't screw it up any worse than the reputed experts......that's why i recommended to you and jims427400 that you rebuild your own carbs - all you need is a good quality rebuild kit, the appropriate solvent to clean the parts, a true flat surface to use as a backing surface to burnish the big flat pieces and an accurate 90* measuring device to ensure "flatness"...besides, once something goes wrong with the carb, you will be able to fix it

good luck and rely on yourself

 

[BarryK]

kid
believe me, after this I will be redoing my carb myself in the future. As mentioned, it was not completely the fault of the rebuilder (partly yes, but partly no) but after going thru all this I might as well do the rebuilds on it myself with a rebuild kit.
At leat at this point all the surfaces should be milled flat and striaght for me which was a main reason I prefered to send it out initially so be sure they were, but from now on i'll tackle any rebuilding on it myself in the future.
H*ll, it can't be much more difficult or complex when i used to take apart and rebuild my motorcycle quad carb setup and I never even had a book on those, I had to figure them out on my own. At least with my Holley there are probably at least 100 books on how to rebuild them.

I stopped taking the car into mechanics because i figured i could screw it up myself cheaper than they charged me to screw it up so now I guess the carb falls into the same argument!

 

[Kid_Again]

you now have the point EXACTLY

i'm sorry, for what these guys charge, there should be NO problems PERIOD

..let's say your alternator goes (i hope i didn't jinx you now)....find the service manual section that shows how to take the booger apart, give/mail me the rear case and the plates containing the diodes, i will pop out the old stuff, install the new (with new bearings) and mail it back to you for the cost of the parts and postage....maybe $30 and you will never again be tied to the vagaries of someone else

As VNV has said many, many times, "Knowledge will set you free"

If you want to rebuild your starter, we can do that. If you want to rebuild your water pump, we can do that (most aftermarket water pumps and the current GM water pumps can not be rebuilt).

Very easy stuff to do if you have patience and guidance.

Rock on

 

[BarryK]

kid
i did just have my starter rebuilt about 2 weeks ago and so far I'm very happy with it. He pretty much went thru it completely, it only took about 2 business days, and it was reasonably priced - $39.99.
Fast, easy, inexpensive. I just wish all work sent out went the same way.
For $40 I couldn't pass it up - I probably couldn't buy the parts and pay for the shipping for that, plus the LONG learning surve that i usually end up needing, and it saved an 11-page thread of "how do i rebuild my starter?".
The best part is that I reinstalled it and it worked the first time and the problem was gone! I considered that a well spent $40.

 

[Kid_Again]

OK, I'll bite (for the last time)

..that's not my point

when you depend on someone else, you never know

good luck, you will need more of it when you deal with outside "experts"

 

[Greg Gore]

Serious Question

Do you think there is any room in this hobby for a professional consultant with a 30 year background to help folks with nice old Corvettes prevent making serious or costly mistakes with regard to engine or component rebuilding?

Thanks, Greg

 

[BarryK]

I know it wasn't your point kid, i was just mentioning that i got lucky on the starter and for once it was nice to get lucky for a change!

 

[BarryK]

always room for someone with useful and helpful advice greg! thank god this forum is filled with people like that.