Is the LS9 Engine the end of Performance as we know it?

[Rob]

After reading Hib's article:

Is the LS9 Engine the end of Performance as we know it?

What do you think? Will we see another engine like the LS9 again?

 

[twiget]

I voted yes, but I want to qualify that answer. 30+ years ago, when the government mandated new emission standards, everyone complained about how it was going to kill the performance car industry, and to a certian extent it did. Gone were the 427's and other motors. Muscle cars disappeard faster than the dinosaurs. Horsepower went from 350 - 400 to under 200. I've heard many people say that the mid '70's Corvettes were the worst ever performance wise (dont shoot the messenger Shark owners ), and perhaps they were. Then 1984 rolls around and Motortrend votes the all new C4 their car of the year and things started improving.

Today, my daily driver is a stock 2008 Corvette coupe. This car is capible of a mid 12 second quarter (12.99 @ 115mph is my best so far), a top speed of 190mph and upwards of 30mpg on the interstate, all the while putting out less emmissions than a car from 30 years ago. Find me any vehicle from the '60's or early '70's that can match those specs.

So, are new CAFE regulations going to have an effect on imedate production of performance cars like our beloved Corvette? Most likely. But as long as people are willing to spend money to go fast I'm sure the General will continue spending the money required to give us fast cars.

If it takes a decade to get horsepower and performance levels back to current standards then so be it. In the short term, the imediate fallout from the new CAFE standards will suck, but in the long term, I think we will have more efficent cars wth equal to, or better performance than the ones we drive now.

Jason

 

[PeterG]

Have faith. No, have faith and understanding!

Understand that smart engineers will continue to invent, design, and develop cars more powerful, more maneuverable, more clean, and more fun than our C6s.

Look back at what happened in the 1970s. People were certain that they had seen the end of muscle cars. I prefer my new C6 to my 1975 C3 -- and even to my 1967 427 with side pipes!

Life is not perfect. Those wise enough to learn from history and gain perspective know that more great stuff is coming from smart engineers and their technology all made possible within American capitalism and freedom.

As long as smart, creative people are free to be smart and create they will invent, discover, and make life better in every way for those who want to enjoy life....

People once knew the world was flat and the earth was the center of the universe and Columbus was warned that he was going to sail over the edge.

Now that you have read this, you can stop worrying about cars and worry only about....

 

[Hib Halverson]

"twiget" makes some interesting points but the issue facing the LS9 past 2012 or so, is not CAFE it's additional regulations focused on CO2 emissions.

 

[DRTH VTR]

If the fuel was converted to motion more efficiently and less was lost as heat, then we could improve both the emissions and the CO2 production. I thoght that something like 90% of the gasoline's potential energy is converted to heat. If that was cut to 70%, or 50%, we could use much less fuel to create the same work.

Can it be done? I guess that time will tell.

 

[kelp]

Get ready, it's only starting......

It is a great step, but not the end. While is a great car to race along with, I believe the C6R would completely leave me in the dust, the technology there is incredible. With the modularity of the Z06 line, and the many aftermarket producers, comes innovative applications that the consumer can implement. When these are exhausted, consumer innovation seems to be endless. So even this avenue has not yet been exhausted.

Watch what is happening currently. Imagine if the Z06 was electric, with 250+ HP for each wheel, even lower center of gravity, rechargable in 20 minutes. This is available today. No, I would say we are just getting started........

 

[ZR1 MK]

I voted yes, but the key word is "as we know it". The perf cars will be there, but it will be electric has kelp mentioned. The only bad part is the exhaust noise we love will be gone.

 

[twiget]

I voted yes, but the key word is "as we know it". The perf cars will be there, but it will be electric has kelp mentioned. The only bad part is the exhaust noise we love will be gone.

Your telling me the whine of an electric motor dosent get you going the way rumble of a 427 does?

The prospect of a high output electrical motor in each wheel though, that is exciting.

Jason

 

[RevMatt]

Oy ve'

I voted yes, but the key word is "as we know it". The perf cars will be there, but it will be electric has kelp mentioned. The only bad part is the exhaust noise we love will be gone.

hnoes I do believe the current muscle car race is winding down. From 1999-2010; this era will be viewed as the mid-60s-mid-70s are now viewed... A nice 10-12 year muscle car race. I am old enough to remember the 60s muscle car wars! Gas was less than 30 cents a gallon.. then came the environmental wackos, price and wage freezing, an "energy crisis," and greater governmental regulation/control in nearly every area of our lives. Here we go again! ad

 

[NORTY]

I believe the LS9 is at the end of a "horsepower war." Carbon footprints are the new environmentalist's mantra. I'm seeing direct injection and displacement on demand as cars become smaller and lighter.


Interesting fact: The USA has used 30 billion gallons of gas less this year than last year (Jan01-Jun30.)
In May alone the difference was 10 billion gallons. This is probably killing the US Treasury as they get 18.4 cents per gallon. (Diesel, they get 24.4cpg.) The price of gas is making this happen.

 

[NORTY]

If the fuel was converted to motion more efficiently and less was lost as heat, then we could improve both the emissions and the CO2 production. I thoght that something like 90% of the gasoline's potential energy is converted to heat. If that was cut to 70%, or 50%, we could use much less fuel to create the same work.

Can it be done? I guess that time will tell.

If you figure out a way to do that, I'll invest in your company.

Energy can neither be destroyrd nor created, it can only change from one form to another.

You are correct about the majority of the fuel creates heat and not propulsion. (Of course, we are working with 1880's technology.) Sure, we have improved induction and exhaust systems, but we still use a reciprocating engine. We've improved the fuel used also. As you stated above, efficiency is key.

 

[Bob Chadwick]

The HP will continue as technology advances. Will it come in a form different than what we are used to, most certainly. The next source of power for an automobile will be as different as the last change when we went from the horse and buggy to the automobile.

If I had to guess, the transition will be through hybrids with smaller gas motors supplemented with electric until the next big thing.

 

[*89x2*]

I believe the LS9 is at the end of a "horsepower war." Carbon footprints are the new environmentalist's mantra. I'm seeing direct injection and displacement on demand as cars become smaller and lighter.


Interesting fact: The USA has used 30 billion gallons of gas less this year than last year (Jan01-Jun30.)
In May alone the difference was 10 billion gallons. This is probably killing the US Treasury as they get 18.4 cents per gallon. (Diesel, they get 24.4cpg.) The price of gas is making this happen.

That IS interesting :cool And we wonder why the dollar continues to weaken :ugh

As soon as we start producing our own energy in mass quantities, the sooner we get back to normal.

Nuclear power is a big way to do this and coal energy as well. My friend said he expects to pay close to 6k to heat his (oil fired) home this season :eyerole

 

[hotshotzny]

i just wonder when they are going to step in and put limits on the speeds cars are capable of doing, even to the point where if you buy a certain level of sports car you need to prove you can drive the thing... i was dead against having to take a course to buy my last ATV and i was annoyed the entire time during the safety course for PWC, but after all my whining i took the courses and got my toys and face it... 90% of the people out there driving a car capable of doing close to 200mph would probably streak thier shorts if they really nailed the gas just once... i know i was in shock the first time i drove my fathers 07 and really nailed it... the other problem is on top of that they handle, still to this day the fastest car i have ever been in was a 70's camaro but it was built to drag.. ya knew ya couldnt take a turn in it...... cars today grab the road, but the old cars broke loose and you had a chance, at 150+ you dont break loose, you crash once they let go its gone..... then add in what i started off saying with a driver who has no clue how to drive you got a mess of plastic covering the highway! maybe some sort of course would be a good idea in a way just to keep them from slowing us down!

 

[ZR1 MK]

Interesting fact: The USA has used 30 billion gallons of gas less this year than last year (Jan01-Jun30.)
In May alone the difference was 10 billion gallons. This is probably killing the US Treasury as they get 18.4 cents per gallon. (Diesel, they get 24.4cpg.) The price of gas is making this happen.

Ive heard the exact opposite, and by a good margain too, from a variety of diffent sources.

 

[Klaus]

Bob Lutz seems to think the horsepower wars are fading fast.


"You'll see some V-8s in trucks and high performance cars in the future, but they'll be priced to discourage people from buying them," assures Lutz when talking about the showroom of the future. But "in 5 to 10 years, the 4-cylinder will be the predominant engine."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/autocorner/chi-mxa0914gmsep14,0,5513335.story

 

[catbert]

As we know it - absolutely. Future horsepower will be high tech, AND expensive. The 427s and kin are endangered species.

 

[PeterG]

What is TV?

One-hundred years ago few people -- even Corvette owners -- could imagine what television is today.

Have faith. No, have faith and understanding!

Understand that smart engineers will continue to invent, design, and develop cars more powerful, more maneuverable, more clean, and more fun than our C6s.

Look back at what happened in the 1970s. People were certain that they had seen the end of muscle cars. I prefer my new C6 to my 1975 C3 -- and even to my 1967 427 with side pipes!

Life is not perfect. Those wise enough to learn from history and gain perspective know that more great stuff is coming from smart engineers and their technology all made possible within American capitalism and freedom.

As long as smart, creative people are free to be smart and create they will invent, discover, and make life better in every way for those who want to enjoy life....

People once knew the world was flat and the earth was the center of the universe and Columbus was warned that he was going to sail over the edge.

Now that you have read this, you can stop worrying about cars and worry only about the USA.

 

[raybies]

my outlook

Well I posted a yes answer. Only reason being that with todays political environment and the ever increasing demands by the government for cleaner emissions and greater fuel economy I just don't see it possible to make muscle engines and still meet the proposed federal standards regarding mpg. After all ya gotta burn more fuel to make more power.
Then there's the fuel situation that all of our country faces at the pump.
I personally believe that the oil companies are just gouging the American public and our government is in their pockets, but that is just my opinion.

The fact is that fuel prices will continue to rise and the average American public will be forced by economic reason to seek more fuel efficient modes of transportation.
Let's face it, General Motors or any other of the big 3 auto makers are not going to tool up an entire assembly line to produce more muscle cars if there is only a select and small market of people who can afford to buy and drive them.

I believe that if performance cars do manage to weather the storm the means of their production will become more on the lines of select and custom production such as Ferrari or Lamborghini and will be financially out of the reach of the average consumer

 

[PeterG]

The fact is that gasoline prices will -- no, cannot -- are not able -- to continue to rise beyond a reasonable level... likely around $6.80 per gallon.

As we recently learned empirically, people buy less gasoline as the price increases. Several weeks ago gas went to about $4.50 here and people bought less.

At some higher price they will buy even less. At some price point there will be excess gasoline and oil product supplies.

That will force the price downward.

Americans would do themselves a service to remember that Indonesia, Venezuela, the African and Middle eastern nations must sell oil because, to paraphrase one of our leaders, "They are addicted to oil... money".

Those nations have commitments to their people and the ruling demagogues enjoying bullying the free (productive) Western Civilization nations.

Hey guys, this negative outlook is destructive. Let's each hope for the real changes that science can provide in a free USA.

Cars will use lighter materials, more energy will extracted from a given amount of gas, and small-scaled ZR1-style engines will provide the MPG with good power using V8, V6 and 4 cylinder engines. Lower gas usage, more HP per pound, lighter cars, and more maneuverability for our C7s and C8s.