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LT1- at temp, dies, starts, runs for seconds, dies - help

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f18_builder

Guest
1996 CE Vortech SC 31,000 miles automatic --

In the last weeks my vette has tried to die a few times, but has run great over all. This weekend, after 2 hours at highway speeds it died in the middle of the highway at 75 mph. I coasted off the road, and tried to start it... It would start, run great for 10 -15 seconds, idle perfectly, then die, just as if you turned the key off. It did this time and time again. After 30 minutes, it ran long enough for me to drive about 100 yards, and died the same way.

As a good GM owner, I had my scan tool in the armrest. The code was an odbii p1371. Which the scan tool indicates as a Man. Ign. Control.... I also saw it described as a DI Low Resolution Circuit. After a tow and a nights cooling off, the service tech at chevrolet could get it to act up when he drove it. After letting it idle for sometime it finally died. He had a fuel pressure gage on the rails. I had good pressure. I thought originally the problem was in the fuel delivery. The car has a Vortech SC on it, and an additional fuel pump. I thought one might be going out. Regardless.

The engine also has an MSD 6 ignition on it. We bypassed the box to see if it was the problem. Same thing happened (run perfect for ten seconds, die). We pulled a plug wire... we had spark, until it died. We had a constant power and a driver to the coil. We did check the spark going to the dist. The service guy believed it was the coil. We replaced the coil, I paid the bill, and took off down the street. The car ran perfect. Excellent accel. I was happy as a clam for the first 100 yards, then dead. Driving 20 feet at a time I got the car back to the dealer.

Later that day the manager called and said the leading theory was that it was the ignition control module. As I was getting off the phone the tech came over and told the manager he now thought it was the computer, b/c the engine was now throwing all kinds of codes, and turning on accessories, etc. I did notice that the air pump would start while we were working on the car before, but I don't know if that is normal.

The computer seems like an odd choice. There is a corrolation between the engine being hot and the problem occurring. We were seeing the symptoms while the car was idling, with the hood up on a cool morning. Not exactly the conditions for the computer to be getting hot. Obviously, it could be generating heat internal to the computer, but it seems like effects would show up sooner.

I would really appreciate any help.
 
It is your Opti-Spark. The routine you are experiencing with the mechanics is the same deal I went through myself the first time mine went out, and I'm not even trained in the system. Just did a lot of reading and testing. I'll bet I'm right! Low Res = Opticrap.
 
Did your fail because of condensation? How did they test... or should I say how do you test the optispark?
 
Opti-Crap

I'd bet it's your Opti-Spark. Had an identical scenario last Summer on my '92 with 16,000 miles last Summer. This is my 5th Vette, but I had been Vetteless for 20 years before I bought this one in '02, and wasn't surfing CAC, CF, etc. on the net at the time. (costly mistake) Obviously, I was clueless about this problem that thousands of LT1/4 owners have had. If, indeed this is your problem, DO NOT BUY IT FROM THE DEALER!! Mr. Greedwrench charged me $643.90 for the dist. & gasket, & $465.30 to install it. The no good b****s didn't offer the GM vent kit available for '92-'94 models, probably hoping to get me back for another one. (BTW, '95 & '96 models are vented from the factory). GM Parts Direct and DRM sell the same unit for about $325.00. Another option is the after market Dyna-Spark, which I've read is virtually bullet proof, but pricey (about $600.00). Good Luck!
 
Thanks. I had also heard that the 96 has a vacuum line, designed to pull off excess moisture. I haven't heard from the dealer, and it has been four days.

Has anyone changed one out? How long did it take? Any suggestions or short cuts?
 
f18_builder,

My first opti-spark failed at 12,000 miles due to a leaking water pump. Never anything leaking on the ground however. Well, my second opti failed at 20,000 miles because the freakin dealer did not detect the cause of the first opti failure! I found it myself. A leaking water pump. I could hardly believe that because when I replaced the pump and opti THE SECOND TIME (would not trust this dealer again) the pump had caked-on crud around the weep hole and down from the back of the input bearing seal. I believe that crap had been going on for at least 15,000 miles. It was that bad. Oh, and another thing, your '96 and my '95 opti is vented. It draws air through the small hose on the intake hose before it enters the throttle body. It is attached on mine with a small light grey plastic doojie. That hose routes to the top of the opti.
There is another hose mounted on the bottom of the opti that runs to the front of the intake manifold. This hose provides vacuum through two blue and white plastic check valves. One valve prevents only 1-way vacuum. The other valve limits the amount of vacuum draw off of the intake manifold. If the "vacuum limiter" valve were not in line I don't think the ECM would like full vacuum being drawn into the manifold. That would be like a MAJOR vacuum leak!!! The vacuum effectively creates constant air circulation through the opti (albeit very small). The other thing I found which had the MOST IMPACT on my opti problem was that GM crimped the vacuum hose shut 90 degrees the first time they remounted my old water pump. It was pinched between the back of the pump and some gizmo on the front of the intake manifold. Therefore my air circulation was cut off. Normally on 95 and 96 LT1/LT4's, even if moisture IS getting on the opti the fresh air circulation will prevent the opti from corroding up on the inside. If your problem is caused by leaking antifreeze, when you open up the old opti you will find a world of blue copper sulfate goop all over everything!

As a side not, if your problem is the opti, I am surprised that you are not getting a code.

You might be able to get anidea whether the opti is crudded up on the inside by carefully removing the electrical input/output harness to the opti. It is tough to get out but here's how I remove mine: I take a 12" long thin-blade screwdriver and insert it carefully into a tiny slot on the intake manifold side of a white clip-lock that is molded onto the male opti plug. Carefully using some leverage, bend out that little locking tab away from the nub that is locks down onto. The screw-driver blade, if inserted snugly (but not too snugly), probably has enough bite into the locking tab to ease the male plug out of the opti and up where you can see it clearly. Inspect the end of the plug. If your opti is crapped up you MIGHT FIND some of that blue goo on the end of the plug. That acidic goo actually was preventing good contact on mine. And it corroded the terminals so bad that I had to get a new 18" long 3 or 4-wire harness. That's $125 in dealer lingo. Maybe $50 in GM Parts Direct Speak.

Peer down inside the female receptacle (it is part of the opti). You may need a small shop mirror and flashlight. You just MIGHT FIND mating blue goo down on those internal opti contacts as well.

How does the blue goo get inside of what appears to be a sealed chamber you say? Unbeknownst to many the opti is actually vented to that female receptacle. All that blue goo swirling around inside your opti is bound to end up contaminating a vital part of the opti system, namely the input/output receptacle which communicates engine rpm and corresponding ECM-generated signals to and from each device.

I know the inside of the opti like the back of my hand. Ronkvette talks about the Dyna Spark. I compared each of their "improved" features with my old optis. I can attest that they know of what they speak. Every point they made about the weak points of the stock opti I found to be true, and I believe they probably did address all the weak points. Bullet-proof?....maybe and probably unless the unit fails for other than moisture intrusion.

Is the unit worth it? That depends. Personally, I don't think my opti will fail again do to moisture because I'm not going to let my water pump do that anymore. The Dyna is $600. If you install it yourself you save about $250 labor. After much thought I decided to spend the $600 and buy a lifetime guaranteed water pump from AutoZone (that a nicely manufactured pump) AND a brand new opti from GM Parts Direct. You can't beat that price anywhere. On the other side though, if you have all your work jobbed out to a mechanic the Dyna Spark may just be your ticket to less headaches and a fatter wallet down the road.

Will I need a new opti soon? I doubt it because NOW, as I indicated earlier, I look at that little water pump weep hole each month. It remains as dry as a bone. The moment I detect a leak off to AutoZone I go for a free replacement. I'll intall it in about 3 hours.

Good luck! I hope I was able to help you.
 
Oh, I forgot something. Please do check for a small vacuum on the intake end of the fresh air hose to your opti once you replace it. Just start the engine. Bend way over that little hose with your mouth (sounds kinky huh?) Place your tongue over the end of the hose to see if you feel a small amount of vacuum. The vacuum is soooo small I doubt you will feel it with your finger.

I would highly recommend this as regular practice for vented opti vette pilots.
That is all.....................................
 
Oops. I forgot you said you got a low res code! I said in my last post, "As a side note, if your problem is the opti, I am surprised that you are not getting a code.

My bad.
 
Thanks so much for your time! I did want to go over a few things.

Your vette would run well, then die. It would seem that the car would run poorly. Mine runs fine. I spoke to the dealership last night. They are still scratching their heads. They are going to look at the optispark tomorrow. I really appreciate the help. I would have never thought it was the distributor. It just runs perfectly... until it dies! I believe the dealership has tried a new coil, ignition control module, and computer. I am happy that they are keeping the car in the garage, and it isn't setting outside. I'll update this thread as soon as I hear from the dealership.
 
I actually have a used Opti-Spark for sale from a 96 T/A.


We pulled it out of a working car upon an engine change...Why not?!

More Info

chadbehiels@hotmail.com
 
I have an 84 C4 with the same problem. Goes along fine & just shuts off without warning. Working on a Vette is new to me so would I be experiencing the same parts problem? Car is going into the shop Monday & I'd like to have some idea before the service tech starts working on it.

Thanks in advance
 
steves,

I'm almost 100% certain you do not have the infamous OptiCrap in your '84. You probably have a regular distributor sitting up pretty on the back rear of your intake manifold. It "may" be covered. I'm not up on '84's sorry. I'm sure someone here more knowledgeble than I can help you.

Good luck.
 
bigred-

Please, do not take offense at this but in answer to your "why not?", I'm only speaking for myself when I say:

The water pump, flywheel removal and opti install can be an all-day job for most folks. Only those with wrench experience, patience and guts should try it. If for some reason patience is not the amateur mechanic's virtue, AND the used opti is somehow faulty (of course you would not know for sure) the amateur mechanic is SCREWED; not necessarily out of his/her money (although that might be true), but screwed out of his/her labor hours and confidence! Losing an Opti for the first time is a very nerve-wracking thing for even a semi-experienced wrench turner. I've been there and done that. All that said, I am not a real risk-taker. Fortunately for those of us who like to make a little money selling used parts (and believe me I am one too!) those who like taking a little risk are welcomed company. A used Opti?......... I don't know. It scares me. My 2 cents worth.

Respectfully,
 
If I do decide to do this myself are there any special tools that will be needed, or wanted (eg: You don't HAVE to have air tools to change a ball joint, but it's a really good idea to have them)
 
f18_builder said:
If I do decide to do this myself are there any special tools that will be needed, or wanted (eg: You don't HAVE to have air tools to change a ball joint, but it's a really good idea to have them)
No special tools that I remember. If you want to see what your opti looks like go to this site: http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/optisprk/optisprk.htm

Ted
 
Whoops I just traced this thread..

I meant Why not as to pull it off the working engine we were throwing away! Car came in with a thrown rod at 55 000 miles or so, so I pulled it off....Why Not

Ive taken a close look at it external as well and there is no signs of corrosion as well.

Hehe No problems But I am selling it REAL cheap so just let me know if you want pictures or info.
 
Here's a head scratcher for you. The guys at the dealership were checking out the optispark, and found that the vacuum hose had been cut and plugged with a screw! I was going to get in touch with Vortech, but I can't think of a reason in God's green earth why someone would do that. Especially, when it is a known problem area.

Needless to say, the distributor is shot. So corroded that the connections are green. They are getting me the part at GMdirect pricing. The labor would be $299... would be if I didn't have a supercharger in the way! This after they spent a week trying to diagnose it. I think the only guys who would like to kill the guy who put the screw in, more than me, would be the technician and service manager.

Any theories why someone would do this?
 
Any theories why someone would do this?

__________________
Here's my theory: In the process of installing the SC the dude got to playing around with vacuum hoses. He found the one between the Opti and the intake manifold, looked at the 2 very important blue/white check valves (one of which may have been shot causing full manifold vacuum to be applied to the Opti). He thought, duh, I've got a vacuum leak cause I know I installed the SC correctly and I'm getting lousy idle. Now being a motorhead he figures he can get his good idle back by plugging up the vacuum line. Viola! PAY ME NOW, OR PAY ME LATER!

PS - If your opti input is all sulfated up, don't forget to have them replace your ECM harness. It connects to the opti, runs up the pass. side of the intake manifold and attaches at a stand-off point about 1/3 the way from the front of the block. It is about 1-1/2' long. My cost was $125 installed. Have them put that on as part of the COMPLETE cure. The first time I had the dealer replace my opti he charged me for a new harness. When the new opti began missing a few days later they called and said I needed a new harness. I showed them the bill for the new harness I paid for 3 days earlier they said, "Wow, you had asked for your old parts back the first time. Now we know why we couldn't find your old harness! We must have left the old one on the engine." Needless to say I had them eat the new harness this go round.
 

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