Muffler Eliminators a good idea?

[weatherman]

I will be changing the exhaust tips soon on my '92 LT1, and have contemplated the idea of while at the muffler shop eliminating the mufflers altogether. Just wondering is this will cause any backpressure issues, or any other issues for that matter? Thanks.

Jim aka weatherman

 

[catbert]

I found the C4 without mufflers painful after a short period of time. I also doubt if there is anything close to a substantial performance increase over a catback system with good cats. But, if you like the sound, go for it.

 

[93Rubie]

There is no negative side effects from them, N/A engines needing back pressure is a myth. I love mine, very cheap way to get sound. I added a X-pipe so it helped with the popping and crackling on deceleration. I do not find them too loud at all, pretty sudate at below 2K. Above that she makes some noise. ALWAYS quieter than any typical motorcycle. :eyerole

I doubt any substantial gain in HP, but it should help some. Mufflers are restrictive somewhat. The LT1 stock system is a very good one however as far as flow is concerned.

The only negative effects might be the perma-grin from the noise of that V8 , decrease in fuel mileage-on the throttle more , and increased attention from cops if your on the throttle when they are around. Keep it below 2.5K in town and you'll be fine. Like I said, ALWAYS quieter than ANY typical motorcycle and cops never bother them. WTH, is up with that anyhow? Double standard....

 

[boomdriver]

I ran a Borla? or Corsa? I forget which...muffler eliminator and drove that for several months.. Went up the west coast and down again. At first it was fun...but after driving open hiway for hours at a time it got old.....pretty fast. When you cannot hear the stereo, or make a ph call, or even have a conversation because at 60-70 mph the droaning roar is so loud and you have to shout...it quits being fun. :ugh It makes you tired too soon.
When I was faced with another 1800 mile drive....I had them hacked off and some performance mufflers installed that were still louder than stock but LOTS easier to live with than the muff-'liminators.. 2000 rpm is about the limit for bearable noise.
IMO if its a car thats going to be on the hiway much...don;t do it. If you do most of your driving intown then go ahead. Your call.
It just gets to be too high schoolish to be that loud when it does'nt benefit anything. (reminds me of cherry bombs...:L )

And a quick FYI...the stock exhaust is not bad on back pressure. Not by any means. The cam profile does require a slight back pressure to be efficient but people seem to think we're talking 20 psi or something....its more like 0.5 psi or less...its just part of a pressure wave that scavenges the exhaust. The test for a plugged Cat that uses a pressure gauge to measure pressure IN the pipe by taking the forward o2 sensor out and putting the gauge there, says a bad cat builds back pressure of 2-3 psi. So normal is 2 psi or less. Thats not much to be concerned about.

 

[Marv02]

I tryed them for 2 months like others have said there are fun at first but they get to loud after a while plus the cops love looking at you.

They sound great at idel but when you step on the gas you can be heard blocks away and I will make those Harley guys that think they have a bad bike with straight pipes take notice it was fun wacthing them turn there heads when you get on it.

I now running Thrush 2 chamberd mufflers 1st Cheep I picked mine up for $32.00 each not as loud as not running a mufflers I like them alot, they are copies of Flowmaster 40's for alot less money.

You still get heads turning when you go by other drivers Just yesterday I was getting gas when I fired it it to leave I seen a other driver drooling over the sound it made.

It has a 383 with a LT4 hotcam and full headers though a 3 way Hi flow cat, so it sounds healthy crackel come from it.

 

[93Rubie]

Most annoying I found with the eliminators was the cackle on the over-run when throttle lifted
Also helps to get on well with your neighbors , you don't want to live in a apartment block :nono


Solved problem of pretending I had a hot engine by installing free flow mufflers and a 500Hp 383 with a big cam

So what is the problem with the crackle on over run when the throttle is lifted??? I've had mine on for over two years, LOVE THEM. I run with the windows down/top off on the highway so it does not bother me.

I ALWAYS get positive comments on how the car sounds never heard a bad one yet. I don't have neighbors per say that are close but I need to stop running it thru the gears as I run up the hill, I'm sure the homes around don't like that too much. Not that I do that EVERY time I have the car out...:ugh:ugh or anything....

To each their own but, I think you guys are too old...:L I mostly act like an adult, then I drive my Corvette, brings out the juvenile delinquent in me from time to time. I try to keep it on the track, mostly...For crying out loud I'm grinning just sitting here thinking about it. Is it spring yet??? It is a GOOD thing I don't have an engine like that 383 Vettoz, I'd really be in trouble.

 

[Hib Halverson]

I will be changing the exhaust tips soon on my '92 LT1, and have contemplated the idea of while at the muffler shop eliminating the mufflers altogether. Just wondering is this will cause any backpressure issues, or any other issues for that matter? Thanks.

Jim aka weatherman

Muffler eliminators are a controversial issue. Some swear by them and love the noise. Others...not so much.

First the facts. The car will be much louder, but not as loud as open exhaust because, if you still have cats, they actually silence the exhaust somewhat. You'll also get that "burbbley-cackle" as just as the throttle closes when you lift off the gas. Where some people regret muffler eliminators is on long trips where the car is at highway speeds (50-75 mph) and the transmission is in high gear. If your hearing is reasonably good, the drone of the exhaust when the engine is in the 1500-2000 rpm range will combine with the resonance of the exhaust system and that aof the car's structure to drive you nuts and have you wishing for ear plugs. On the other hand, if you're hearing is not so good, you may not notice the droning resonance all that much.

My opinion in muffler eliminators?

No doubt this will generate some hate mail but, I think really loud cars are a "need" of folks who are either hard of hearing or have some want of attention. I'll admit that most of my cars have aftermarket exhausts, but most of what I do exhaust-wise is just to reduce restriction and improve performance, not to make a major "acoustic statement" in front of the local Harley-Davidson club.

My attitude with exhaust noise? I don't care much if everyone knows I'm coming but I want them to hear me, just a little bit, when I'm going away. I find really loud cars just as annoying as the next guy. Open exhaust is for the racetrack not for the street.

As for what aftermarket exhaust systems do I use? On the 71, the 82 and the 95 we have Flowmaster. On the 04, I have the stock Z06 ti exhaust. On the non-Vettes (99 Blazer, 01 Camaro, 07 HHR) I have Flowmaster. I've tested some other exhaust products on my C4, but I come back to Flowmaster 1) because of the characteristic sound and 2) because they're American-made in Santa Rosa CA.

In re: cheap substitutes for Flowmasters.

There is no such thing. Anyone who thinks a pair of cheap, Chinese-made, "Thrush" mufflers are the equivalent of a well-engineered, American-made Flowmaster is penny-wise/pound-foolish. A lot of those cheap mufflers are made with internal tubing having their perforations pierced to the inside because it's much less costly to make them that way. Inside perforated tubes in mufflers are a significant restriction and decrease performance. Another thing I like about Flowmaster is the heavy-gauge, aluminized steel materials.

 

[Marv02]

Why pay $100.00 each for Flowmaster if your not sure thats the sound you want try the cheeper Chinese made brand if you do like them when they Blow out go get a USA made set of FlowMasters.

If you dont like the China made muffler you only out $60.00 if you dont like the USA made Flowmaster your out $200.00.

Yes you can go to U Tube to hear sounds clips but it not the same hearing it in person and when it on you're own car.



I have a set of MagnaFlows sitting in the garage that cost $80.00 each thats $160.00 of mufflers I dont like so thats why I put the CHEEP Thrush 2 Chambered on my car at first when I was looking to buy anouther set of mufflers the feed back was most dont like the Flowmaster 40 they are to loud but I like the 2 chamber mufflers me self.

They should last a couple years of use or more then I go buy a set of USA made FlowMasters.
But next time around I going with 3 inch cat back with 3 Chambered Flow masters to keep the Loud sound but more flow.
I have 2.5 cat back now.

In re: cheap substitutes for Flowmasters.

There is no such thing. Anyone who thinks a pair of cheap, Chinese-made, "Thrush" mufflers are the equivalent of a well-engineered, American-made Flowmaster is penny-wise/pound-foolish. A lot of those cheap mufflers are made with internal tubing having their perforations pierced to the inside because it's much less costly to make them that way. Inside perforated tubes in mufflers are a significant restriction and decrease performance. Another thing I like about Flowmaster is the heavy-gauge, aluminized steel materials.

 

[93Rubie]

NO hate mail from me Hib, yes they drone some, my X-pipe helped with that, some. Still drone but I don't really care or notice, with the windows down. Windows up, yes they drone. Its a personal choice and one I accept as I like the noise, most of the time, I agree that if I took long trips ear plugs would be a must. It would get tiresome.

My car is NOT anywhere near as loud as a SINGLE Harley with opened up pipes. Heck, the average muscle car at the local cruise in WITH mufflers has a MUCH louder idle than my Corvette. I've been beside many a bike at a stop light I can barely hear my car the Bike IS WAY louder. No comparison.

I've had people drive behind me and say if I'm below 2K or so, its muted and not obnoxious at all. I still have my Cats and they are operational. Above 2K or so, all heck breaks loose. Yes, it is loud then but not obnoxious like a ricer with a fart can or something.

This video is old but you get the idea of how loud they really are. One of my first ever passes, that Honda was LOUD.

Corvette vs Honda - YouTube

I would NOT recommend these if one has headers with or without Cats, it would crazy loud. If you cannot tolerate some drone, don't buy.

One thing about Corvettes, lots of options to choose from regarding exhuast modifications. To each their own, one thing is for sure there was NO way I was leaving the stock exhaust system alone, whomever thought a Corvette should be that mundane needs to be fired from GM.

Yes, Hib I want attention just not Harley, Ricer, Open Exhaust attention, so I stopped one step below that. :L

Speaking of Flowmasters my buddies Mustang GT, wow is that thing loud, louder than my Corvette then again he as headers, a E303 cam, no Cats, and Flowmaster 40 Series.

 

[Marv02]

I have full lenght headers it was LOUD with Muffler eliminators.

I like it with my 2 chamber but each there own.

I would NOT recommend these if one has headers with or without Cats, it would crazy loud. If you cannot tolerate some drone, don't buy.

Speaking of Flowmasters my buddies Mustang GT, wow is that thing loud, louder than my Corvette then again he as headers, a E303 cam, no Cats, and Flowmaster 40 Series.

 

[Hib Halverson]

On my 71 and my 95 I have Flowmaster 50-Series Delta-Flows which are three chambers and quite a bit less noisy than a 2-chbr 40-Series.

The 71 has 3-in pipe from the headers back and a 2-in. cross-pipe. The system on that car really needs to be updated...replace the balance pipe with an X-pipe. It ought to improve performance and make it sound better. Also, I'd love to see if the 70-series Flowmaster would fit. They'd quiet it a little more but not cause a performance "hit".

The 95 has ported/polished stock exhaust manifolds, stock cats, a Flowmaster 2-to-1 collector, the resonator out of the Flowmaster cat-back, the rear pipes out of a 96 GS six-speed, the two 50-Series deltas and stock exhaust outlets. The construction and testing of this system, which would fit any late-C4, 90-96, was detailed in an article elsewhere on the CAC. See:Corvette Action Center Knowledgebase :: 1992 - 1996: Tech Article: Quietly Powerful: How to Build a C4 LT1/4/5 Exhaust that Gains 28 hp and...is Quiet

Our 04 has the stock, Z06 titanium exhaust. it's got the loudness and the sound quality I like so there's no reason to change. My Camaro has a Flowmaster cat-back which uses the 80-series, 3-chamber designed for transverse mounting applications. Our HHR uses the Flowmaster catback for that application and I have a Flowmaster 70-Series 4-chamber muffler on our Blazer with a custom-built, 3-in over-axle pipe.

I'll admit that none of these systems are loud enough to "take on" serious ricers or Harleys but they all are tolerable on long trips...ah well...the 71 is just "barely tolerable". It's just nothin' but a hot rod, you see.

 

[boomdriver]

There are plenty of production vehicles that generate 500+ hp and as much or more torque and do not rattle the windows when they drive by.

For me, thats the standard. To me, that says that the science of sound can merge with mechanical engineering. You can have power and a reasonable enviroment.


I remember my Z1 Kawasaki ( 1973) with the open Kerker header...it scared small plane pilots if they were flying over me. It was obnoxious and irritating to everyone including Helen Keller. I was 15 and thought that loud was "cool". The 'gurgle' from rolling off throttle and the occasional flame out the pipe was as good as sex. Again, I was 15.

Hib hit it in his previous post...

The noise is'nt necessary for performance. Not on a street car, not at all. It's a need for attention or the owner is deaf. Or soon will be. I had the loud system on my car and after driving it up the coast I had it hacked off in a foriegn country(Oregon) before I could stand driving it back to SoCal and beyond. It just makes you weary and tired when that droaning goes on and on for hours at a time....exactly like a small plane where you have to wear headphones to stay sane.

 

[93Rubie]

Have any of heard the Chambered Exhausts that Corvette Central sells? I did find a youtube clip of one at one time. Had a deeper tone to it and kinda sounded like an old hot rod w/glass packs, that still had the glass in them.

I like the sound of the Corsa system but $$$.

 

[John Robinson]

How about removing the resonator and keeping the stock mufflers. I had mine removed 6 years ago and put in straight pipe were the resonator was. The sound is just enough more open that I get comments from people about how good they sound. As near as I can figure the resonance is around 40 to 45 in overdrive when the engine is lugging. Above 1300 RPM it is not there. As for road noise I drive the car occasionally on 500 to 700 mile day trips. I still enjoy the radio and conversation. Now were did I misplace those darn hearing aids.