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My fastburn came today ( I need some guidance)

R

RalleyRed

Guest
1st I'm upset that the damn block is forged in Mexico!

To do the upgrade to 430/430, they offer a HotCam kit, there are LT4 valve spring's included in the kit but I can't see in the picture's if there are new lifter's . Do I need to replace the lifter's?

The fastburn head's already have the LT4 valve spring's, So I don't know if I should just get the HotCam and 1:6 rocker's or if I need the kit. If I buy the peice's separate is it okay to buy aftermarket rocker's or should I get'em from GM?

Does anyone here know???

I also need to know how many teeth I need when I order the flywheel and the diameter.

Another thing I just read in the packet that came with the motor was that the exhaust need's to have the LT1, LT4 type flange's.
I take it that I now have 3 set's of header's for sale?

THis is what I'm pretty sure of right now

1. I need to replace the flexplate with a flywheel

2. Need to replace the long-leg water pump with a short legged one.

3. If I want my tach to work I need an after market distributor w/ the tach drive.

Any help will be very appreciated guy's.

Rick
 

Tom Bryant

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1959 black 270hp (9/2/69) 1981 Beige L81(10/20/80)
I'll comment on a couple of your questions. First, most of the GM crate motors are made in Mexico. I haven't heard of any quality problems from this. Second, you already have new LT4 valve springs so it would make no sence to swap them for exactly the same thing included in the kit. Third, roller lifters don't have to wear in to the cam like flat tappets that basically slide over the surface of the lobe. You can use your new lifters in your engine with the HOT cam. I read in Hot Rod a while back that since rollers don't require any break in and don't establish a wear pattern on the cam that even used ones in good shape can be swapped onto new cams with no problems.

I would buy the HOT cam and the 1.6 self aligning rockers from Chevy. You should be good to go.

Tom
 
R

RalleyRed

Guest
Thank's Tom,

If anyone else can answer the other issue's please speak up,

BTW,

It's true about shopping around. I priced this motor from coast to coast , locally it would've cost me $1700 more plus tax!

I can see a couple hundred, but $1700. Thank God for the internet.


Rick
 

Jack

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Rick:
Tom nailed it on the lifters, cam, springs issues:upthumbs.

Your present flywheel in your car is either 153 or 168 teeth on ring gear. I don't know which was original to your car... but it could've been changed from original along the way. So, if I were you I'd count the teeth ... twice. You already know your old flywheel will not bolt up to new motor. If you're NOT going racing ... and if there's room in your bellhousing ... I'd suggest a new 168 tooth 14" flywheel with a new 11" clutch pack.

If you MUST use your present mechanical tach then you'll have to use a tachdrive distributor ... OR ...

You can use the very nice HEI distributor that comes with the 385 along with YOUR modified tach. Modify this way: Obtain a good factory electronic tach from a 75 thru 77 Vette ... Remove your tach and remove its needle & face ... Put your old tach's face on elec tach body ... install re-faced 75-77 tach back in hole ... bolts right up. Frankly, I'd swap out the tachs and use your 385's distributor. I'm doing virtually same thing to my 71 ... going w/ gutted HEI coupled to MSD box. I found a good used 75 tach for about $50. Fellow CACC member ZWEDE is running same tach setup.

If you choose a distributor other than the one that comes with the 385, you MUST ensure it has a drive gear designed for use with steel (roller) camshaft. If you use a different distributor, let me be first to offer to buy your 385 distributor. Note: the drive gear on your 385 distributor will not fit an MSD tachdrive distributor ... AND ... Bronze dist drive gears for roller cams often do not hold up well in street cars ... Bronze is relatively soft.

If your car currently has a vette motor (with vette accessory brackets) then yes, you'll need a short water pump. Weiand Team G pn 8220 (3/4" diameter pilot) or 8222 (5/8" pilot) aluminum pumps are good choice at about $145 each. Chevrolet also offers a very nice short aluminum performance pump ... maybe your local dealer will work out a swap deal. If you're gonna run a fan clutch, then get a new one ... make sure you match fan locator hole inside diameter to pilot OD of whatever water pump you run.
JACK:gap
 
R

RalleyRed

Guest
Thank-you Jack,

Let me ask you this about the water pump. Right now I've got a non vette 350 with original vette accessory bracket's, if I were to go with non vette bracket's would the long pump and fan clear everything. I guess all I'd need is an alternator bracket.

As far as the tach modification, would there be a harness I'd have to get too. Also would I also need an MSD box to power the distributor.

With the flywheel, other than the number of teeth. What's the difference between the two and would the starter have to match which ever one I end up getting?

I do want to use as much of this motor the way it came out of the crate, but if I do away with the distributor I'll let you know Jack.

Thanks to both of you,

Rick
 

Jack

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Rick:
Water Pump---Crank & WP pulley's are different short vs long. Also, I suspect w/ Long pump you will have clearance problems ... starting at fan-shroud. Assuming you have the short pump in car now ... Stay with short pump setup. Just to be anal .... Take old pump and new pump and set them on benchtop; water flanges down. Compare height of benchtop to fan mount flanges. Your old one is probably shorter than the Long pump that comes on 385. If they're the same, then you already have the Long setup on car and you're home free. I'd expect that you'll have the shorter one on your car now.

Tach Mods---You'll either need to buy a harness or make one up. Will be minimal ... 3-4 wires max. Three wires from tach ... a ground, a 12V power and a trigger direct from distributor cap's coil cover (look closely at square extension... it's probably stamped "TACH"). The stock 385 HEI distributor does not need any additional box (MSD etc) and it'll run an electronic tach same as the HEI that came in 75-77 sharks. The 385 HEI distributor (GM pn 1104067) is virtually identical to the HEI found in 75-77 sharks ... only yours has a better advance curve built in. You power the HEI with one switched 12V line into coil cover terminal stamped "BAT" ... that is the coil positive. From HEI cover terminal stamped "TACH" is one line out to trigger the tach ... that is the coil negative.

Flywheel---168 tooth is 14" diameter. 153 tooth is 12 1/2" diameter. Your starter is correct for one or the other right now ... that's why you count the teeth ... to determine which size you have now. If I had to guess, it'd be the larger one ... but guessin don't cut it here ... count the teeth. You'll also need a NEW clutch pilot bearing/bushing to fit inside the rear of the crank for the tip of the tranny's mainshaft to locate into. Maybe your new crank has it already ... dunno since it seems it came equipped with flexplate. Clutch pilot bearing/bushing often comes in new clutch pack ... or can be bought from local parts store or Chevy dealer, Jegs etc. Find out size (count teeth) of your old flywheel ... then we'll know which flywheel to get. You already know your old flywheel won't work because it has a different balance and it has a different bolt pattern than your new crank's flange.

Motor Mounts---With all that new power the 385/430's gonna make, I'd suggest fresh motor mounts too ... for insurance. Look at yours when you pull the motor out... your call.
JACK:gap
 

Jack

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MEXICO

Ever seen those big inch, bolt in stroker motors for Harleys made by REVTECH ??? they come in a crate proudly emblazoned "Made in Korea." And there's more than a few 10-second Rat motors sporting cranks & rods cast/forged in Taiwan. I can tell you with good authority that an Asian-parented foundry is in startup as I write ... that foundry is located within minutes of Bowling Green KY. I can rant for an hour about the strategic folly the US is in when virtually all crank (gas & diesel) production is at behest of companies with Non-US HQ's.
JACK:eek
 
R

RalleyRed

Guest
Thanks again Jack,

I know for a fact that right now my water pump is the short legged style, so I will get a shorty. I'm a bit confused though if the 385 has a long style now and the crank pulley isn't changed aren't I going to put stuff out of alinement?

I'm leaning towards the tach mod, but I'll kep the original for the next owner.

Good advise on the motor mount's, but mine are less the 5 year's old and have less than 2000 mile's on them. I'll look at them , but I'm sure they'll be fine.

The Mexico issue, I was bummed because I had read in one of the rag's that you should stay away from Mexician casting's at all cost. Thinking back, I'm fairly sure it was heads they were talking about.

It still bother's me that our American muscle car's and bike's use so much in the way of part's from outside our border's.

Thank's again

Rick
 
S

SARGE81

Guest
Fastburn guidance

Rick,
According to the installation instructions that came with my crate engine, GM 350HO. The starter mounting bolts on your original engine dictate what size flywheel your car already has in it. So... I know that you have to get a new flywheel (externally balanced) Look at the starter on your original engine: If the bolts are staggered or offset, the flywheel is a 14" 168 tooth.
If the bolts are straight across from each other, the flywheel is a 12.75" 153 tooth. Like Jack say's...street use go with the 14" flywheel. So basically all I'm saying is by looking at the starter mounting bolts will be easier than counting teeth.
Didn't your engine come with a manual? Hope this helps.
Sarge :w
 
R

RalleyRed

Guest
Sarge,

Thank-you, I was afraid I'd have to pull the motor then order the flywheel. I wanted to pull my motor and install the new one the same day.
Now it looks like I can order the cam, rocker's, water pump and flywheel Monday. I think I'll be driving her within 2 week's.

All I got with the motor was a spec. sheet 9 page's long. After reading your post here, I read the whole thing over and did see the offset starter bolt you mentioned.

Also included was the recommended start-up procedure sheet.
Oh yes there was a really big bill too. LOL

Thanks again to all of you.

Rick
 
S

sscam69

Guest
Well about the engine being made in mexico. The blocks made from there have thicker walls. Thats an advantage for you for future modifications. Boring and so on.... The fact its made in Mexico and other foreign countries makes it cheaper for you.

I live on the border. The average factory (maquila) worker makes $5 a day. This country is based on a capitalist economy and the more you can increase the profits the better. If anything this country exploits labor.

You should not expect any problems with quality because there are standards set by the U.S. Though in manufacturing there are always bad apples. U.S. technology is used to make these parts.

The point is you pay less for what you are buying. You weren't shopping around to pay more for that engine were you!

I am American of Mexican descent. Do I love this country you better damn well believe it. Would I defend this country, without a second thought. Do I agree with everything it does NO!!

Frank
 
R

RalleyRed

Guest
Frank,

I didn't mean to offend anyone, I had read that there were in fact problem's at least in the head's of casting's from Mexico.
Hopefully that has been addressed and I won't have any problem's.

As far as paying less, I really don't think that we see any of the saving's.

The companies need the extra profit to get bill's passed to make us destroy our hobby in the name of pollution control ( car crushing program's) so their companies can get away with more pollution

And because companies feel the need to whore out our work so they can afford to pay larger kickback's to our elected official's and overpay their exceutive's only make's it harder for us bluecollar worker's to buy their product's.

Just curious, before NAFTA what were the mexicain factory worker's making, and what pollution law's does Mexico have.

I'd much rather see my tax dollar's go to Mexico as foreign aid than allow our country to become just another 3rd world statisic.

Now, off my soap box. I've got a motor to get to.

Rick
 
S

sscam69

Guest
I couldn't tell you what they were making before NAFTA and I should of have not come off so strong. I should of have asked what you meant by it first.

I just have had to deal with one to many ingorant people split between racial lines and a bit of racism itself. When you state something like



1st I'm upset that the damn block is forged in Mexico!

I am thinking "what in the hell do you mean by that"

sorry for coming off like an a$$.

Frank
 
B

Bullitt

Guest
Well the last I heard, 351 Windsors were still coming out of Mexican factories and the Ford guys don't mind using them at all. Like Frank said, you shouldn't worry about their quality because they are pretty good, RalleyRed.

About NAFTA, though. There is a little known law in there that could spell the end of Democracy. Think I'm kidding? Then read this: Trading Democracy. I know this is off the subject, but if anyone would like to discuss this in the "Off-Road" lounge, I'm willing to listen.

--Bullitt
 
R

RalleyRed

Guest
Frank,

Don't worry about it, you didn't come off as an a$$.

I probably made more of an a$$ of myself for not explaining why it upset me.

Rick


Bullitt,

I saved that link and will read it when I can, thank's.

Rick
 

Jack

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Use old pulleys

Rick:
I don't think your 385 comes with any pulleys. Even if it does, you'll need to use the short crank & water pump pulleys that're on your old motor ... if you use a short pump. Sarge's tip on starter bolts seems a lot easier than counting teeth.


Bullitt:
Tri-lateralists should've been tarred & feathered ... alas I wasn't even a gleam in Dad's eye back then.

Frank & Rick:
There are automotive manufacturing quality issues everywhere; USA not excluded. But I can say from direct experience, solving them goes considerably easier, cheaper and quicker when both suppliers' and customers' engineers-support staff-management can readily converse in a common language. Hence, I would not attempt to calculate the actual worth of a $500 digital camera. My H.S. and college language course requirements did not adequately prepare me for communications needs of our global economy & fast-changing US demographics.

BTW, my new Sony FD200 to arrive tomorrow ... in lieu of language skills.
JACK:gap
 

Jack

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Florence, SC (Timmonsville SC)
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71 War Bonnet Yellow VERT 71 BH Blue CPE (SOLD)
Rick, Ya got water pump shims on-hand?

Rick:
While you may not need them ... you might. These are the shims that will fit between water pump hub and water pump pulley ... they are used to make adjustments to pulley-belt alignments ... and may be needed when using different models-brands of pump. I'm NOT referring to those shims used between pump flanges and block flanges. Both Mr. Gasket and Weiand make shim kit for hub-to-pulley ... Mr G pn is 6129 ... Weiand pn is 8230 ... either shim kit about 5 bucks at Jegs. These'll be great to have on-hand ... if you end up not needing them then you're out only a few bucks ... if you do need em they're worth a lot more!
JACK:gap
 
R

RalleyRed

Guest
Thanks Jack,

I must admit, I've never heard of shim's for the water pump.

I'm finding that I should've done a lot more homework, I wouldn't have been so surprised that I'm spending so much more than I planned on!

Never considered plug wire's , looms, water pump, and so many other little thing's to get the engine compartment just the way I want it.
Then there's the exhaust issue, I think GM should've told me about!!!
We're going to see if we can make one of the set of header's I've got work. Hook'em to the aluminumized 2 1/2 pipe's

Good new's is we're pulling the motor in the morning.
I should have a fairly complete list for my need to order sheet.

I'm having the car flatbeded back to my place, where I'll clean and paint everything.

Still don't have a digital camera, so I'll take picture's and have'm scanned and sent to me for posting.

Wish me luck,

Rick
 

Jack

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Rick:
Sony FD200 arrived ... now I need to learn how to use it ... haven't figured how to download its pics thru USB onto my pc's HD. Camera records onto either an onboard 128MB memory stick/chip or plain old floppy. I've looked at pics from floppy ... really nice quality for a bubba who don't know an f-stop from an f-note. Got camera & memory from J&R ... delivered for under $540. WalMart case & tripod ... both about $30.

Accel makes a really great & affordable hi-po wire that'll take anything you'll ever put through it ... their 300+ RaceWires. 8.8 mm with spiral core, lifetime guarantee, gloss black only. Note there are two or three accel 8.8 wire versions ... the 300+ version have a 4-digit part number that begins with seven (7).

Best o' luck with your motor pull ... have plenty of drinks & burgers on hand for your helpers. Now I need to get motivated & go finish my buildup.
JACK:gap
 
R

RalleyRed

Guest
Guy's

Thanks for all the info.

I've got to tell you , my mechanic is the best!
I brought the car over at 10 this morning and by 4pm it was back in my garage minus one motor.

I'm waiting for part's and in the mean time I'm going to make the motor compartment look as good as possible.
I did take some 35mm picture's of the old dirty motor, I'll have
these scanned to me for posting.

You've all been great. I'm sure I'll be picking your brains some more!

Thank's again,

Rick
 

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