Need some expert advice

[Heavy Duty]

guys I have found a '78 vette for sell. It is suppose to be one of 250 Indy pace cars. It has 35,000 orginal miles on it. The asking price is $19000. I've posted a couple of pics. of the car.

My questions:

1. I thought that all of the pace cars had the lettering on the side?
2. It has an L48 engine. Is that the engine that suppose to be in it?
3. What should i be looking for on this car?
4. Is there something in the VIN that will ID the car as one of the 250 built?

The car looks really nice and I think the car would be nice collector to have if it is in fact one of the pace cars.

Thanks for your help.



H.D.

 

[Tepot]

4. Is there something in the VIN that will ID the car as one of the 250 built?

The VIN # should end with the numbers 900001 and up. If it ends with 400001 then it's a base car.

Not sure about the lettering on the doors but someone here will be able to help you better than me.

 

[Heavy Duty]

The VIN # should end with the numbers 900001 and up. If it ends with 400001 then it's a base car.

Not sure about the lettering on the doors but someone here will be able to help you better than me.

Thanks Tepot. I have the guy e-mailing me the vin. Before I shell out the bucks I need to know if someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes.


H.D.

 

[Heavy Duty]

The VIN # should end with the numbers 900001 and up. If it ends with 400001 then it's a base car.

Not sure about the lettering on the doors but someone here will be able to help you better than me.

OK here is the VIN. 1Z87L8S906060. From what you are saying this looks like one of the pace cars.

Anymore thoughts before I tell this guy I want it?

Thanks

H.D.

 

[bossvette]

1YZ87/78 Limited Edition Pace Car $13,653.21 6,502
the fiqure at the end is the number produced 6502
therefore the vin number you posted shows it to be one of the later of 6502. Where is he coming up with the 250 figure from?

price seems high to me for a 78 even a pace car.

the fiqures are from our tech center in the dark blue band at top

good luck HD

there are four on Ebay running from $9,000 to $11,000 as we type.

 

[Tepot]

I had nothing else to do. so here's the info your looking for according to the VIN # your supplied. 1Z87L8S906060

Digit Definition
1st 1 = GM Division = Chevrolet
2nd Z = Series = Corvette
3rd/4th Body Style: 87 = 2-dr. Sport Coupe
5th Engine Type: L = L48, 4 = L82
6th 8 = Model Year = 1978
7th Assembly Plant: S = St. Louis, MO.
Last 6 digits Production Number started with 400001 and up for the base model and 900001 and up for the Pace Car.

The L-48 for that year was an 350ci. 200hp engine, according to the VIN #. You have that L-48 engine in yours.

Now for the lettering on the doors, I've found a kit on www.corvetteamerica.com for $339.00

Follow this link: http://www.corvetteamerica.com/cf/d...=pace&subcategoryid=&searchname=Keyword: pace

good luck
Dan

 

[bill81vette]

HD,
I saw an L-48 pace car go thru the auctions last year at carlisle,even though it didn't sell...


bill...........

 

[Heavy Duty]

Thanks guys for the info.

Where is he coming up with the 250 figure from?

Good question. I guess the guy was hoping for a fish that had no idea what they where looking at.

price seems high to me for a 78 even a pace car.

I was just on the corvette forum and there is a guy selling his pace car for $24,000. Nice looking vette and it only has 1800 mile on it Vs this one with 35000.

Now for the lettering on the doors

Kinda makes me wonder what happened to the orginal lettering. Looking at the pics again it looks like the car has been re-painted. Question is why?


I've found a kit on www.corvetteamerica.com for $339.00.

Thanks. If i do this I'll need the kit.

there are four on Ebay running from $9,000 to $11,000 as we type.

Thanks Bossvette. I'll use this as a little bartering tool.

Is anyone in the Charlotte N.C. area that could take a look at this car and give any feedback?


H.D.

 

[Heavy Duty]

HD,
I saw an L-48 pace car go thru the auctions last year at carlisle,even though it didn't sell...


bill...........

Do you remember what it topped out at?

 

[bill81vette]

HD,
no I don't,I know there was an L-82 that did go for a nice buck (20,000+
I think), I'm not sure if it even topped 10,000,but I'm sure it wasn't sold.


bill........

 

[Yoda]

The lettering and the Indy logo came as a dealer addon, or the customer could have it in the original shipping package/envelope A lot of folks bought the car without insigna installation and kept all the documents seperate and sealed.

The pace car came with either engine option the L48 or L82 and with 4-speed manual or automatic, depending upon how it was ordered.

Bud

 

[78SilvAnniv]

The number of 6,502 Pace Cars made is due to the fact that at that time, there were 6,502 Chevy Dealerships in the US. Each dealership got ONE pace car.
Heidi

 

[srs244]

first, there were 6502 pace car "special edition" 1978 vettes, not 250. your is toward the end of the run that started in march or so of 78. the lettering package was delivered with the car, but in an envelope, not installed on the car. it was installed (supposedly free of charge) if desired by the purchaser. if not, it was just left in the envelope and given to the buyer. there were very few options on the car as the pace car package included cruise, ps, pb, t&t, pw, pl, a/c, etc. the options were transmission, suspension (gymkana) and a variety of radio otions. the original L-48 hp was 185 with auto trans (non altitude engine) or 4 sp. no extra charge for transmission chosen. base price for the pace car was $13,653.21. let me know if i can give you any additional info. $19000 is a bit high unless it is in near perfect condition with all equipment functional and numbers matching. then it is about right. if it is a survivor it's worth it, if it was restored, i would make certain it was done right and stuff hasn't been covered up (look inside the kick panels and upper door jams at the windshield for any sign of rust. take a close look at the frame where pieces join together, etc. if the emergency brake is functional, i would suspect work has been done to the rear brakes. if not, then they short cutted stuiff as they would have had to take alot of it apart to do the emergency cable, etc, and if they didn;t take the time to work on it whiole it was apart.................well you get the picture.

steve

 

[Heavy Duty]

Thanks Gang

I am goingto run a car fax on it today to see what I can come up with.

if it is a survivor it's worth it

Good point. From the photos it looks like the car had been repainted. I would like to get it on a lift to check the running gear.

The number of 6,502 Pace Cars made is due to the fact that at that time, there were 6,502 Chevy Dealerships in the US. Each dealership got ONE pace car.

Thanks Heidi. I checked my Corvette Black book last night and this car had 4 1/2 stars by it indicating that this would be a great vette to buy. I'm just wondering what makes these so special. Certainly the horsepower is nothing to brag about. I guess just the fact that they have their own VIN makes them special. I did read on another site that when these cars came out that the Wall Street Journal stated that these cars would be great investments since they made 6502 of them.

the lettering package was delivered with the car, but in an envelope, not installed on the car. it was installed (supposedly free of charge) if desired by the purchaser. if not, it was just left in the envelope and given to the buyer.

srs244 thanks for the info. Just about all of the pace cars I've seen have the lettering on them. Now either the owners of this car never had them put on or they were removed for some reason...new paint. A car with 35000 miles on it if it was kept garaged shouldn't need repainting unless something happended to the car. Thus time for a car fax report.


H.D.

 

[srs244]

i don't believe car fax goes back that far, but i could be mistaken. i recognize the background in your picture, i think. is this being offered by a dealer in the mid west (oklahoma, st. louis or kansas city perhaps??) if you have a black book, you can see all the "standard" features that were part of the pace car package. if it has at least an 8 track radio (or the upgraded CB radio), then at least it would appear that someone may have tried to put it together adhereing to originality.

the original story on the car was that chevy was going to build 600 pace cars in celebration of being the first time they paced the indy 500 and to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the marque. once the word got out, the same feeding frenzy that happened to the 76 eldorado convertible took place. people started flooding their dealerships throwing all types of cash over sticker to be guaranteed one of the 600 cars. needless to say, the smaller dealers who knew they had no chance of ever seeing one of the cars, raised all types of stink with GM because they were being left out of the apparent cash windfall, so GM decided to build exactly 6502 cars. one for each of the U.S. AND CANADIAN dealerships. there are still cars being brought out of storage with next to no miles on them (ebay usually has at least 2 with under 2500 miles on any given day). the windfall that people thought would occur, obviously never did although original near new milage wise cars are worth mid to upper $20,000's, as they are classified as survivor vehicles and obviously are complete numbers matching cars. based upon an original cost of near 14,000, that would make it a pretty **** poor 28 year investment. BTW the 78 pace car was the only corvette pace car that wasn't just taken off the production run and shipped to the track. GM had all types of fears due to the EPA strangulation that was happening in the 70's that the car couldn't meet the minimum speed and handling required to pace the 500, so they selected a variety of completed vehicles in no particular order (in fact it was done in a very random order to try to improve their odds), and tested and tweaked each of them to be able to select the 5 or 6 cars necessary for the event (1 actual pace car and 4 or 5 parade cars). as a result, it is impossible to determine any of the cars that were actually on the track that day with the exception of the actual pace car that was given to the race winner (and is in the indy museum). a complete description of the whole experience is covered in the mcclenden book "corvette from the inside".

 

[olouieo]

i don't believe car fax goes back that far

I think you are right.


Saw this on CF he wants $14500

http://www.buyavette.net/c768.html

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

I'm not to sure the one-car-per-dealership=6502 cars story is true. I don't think there's anywhere near 6502 dealerships in North America.

My local dealer (a small town outside Montreal) had three of them on the showroom floor at the same time............

In any case, I don't think this car is worth any special money-

It's not low mileage-
repainted-
non-original tires-
no sticker kit-
appears that the car sits too high- wrong springs?-
who knows what else.

 

[srs244]

I'm not to sure the one-car-per-dealership=6502 cars story is true. I don't think there's anywhere near 6502 dealerships in North America.

My local dealer (a small town outside Montreal) had three of them on the showroom floor at the same time............

In any case, I don't think this car is worth any special money-

It's not low mileage-
repainted-
non-original tires-
no sticker kit-
appears that the car sits too high- wrong springs?-
who knows what else.

the 6502, one to each north american dealer, comes from several books written on corvette history. since there was a premium being paid/car, a lot of the dealers in areas that had little interest (or people willing to pay up for them), probably traded or sold cars intra-dealer at least according to the stories in magazines and books covering the period. it is conceivable that 6502 could have been the number of dealers at that time, as that was a time before mega dealers and auto nation type dealership empires, but that is just my opinion.

i agree that it doesn't seem to be worth any special money either unless it fits the criteria i mentioned in my original post (i agree that it probably doesn't meet them, by the way). the tape package for the car (decals, etc) can be purchased from a place like pheonix graphics for about $400.00, so that's not an issue.in fact pretty much everything can be purchased from any one of the major parts suppliers. in my opinion, for a 78 pace car, $19,000 isn't way out of wack if the car is in good condition with all equipment working, and isn't being sold as being absolutely correct (all numbers and date codes matching, etc). the price spread is probably large enough to drive a tractor trailer through, as they bring less than way $10,000 for one needing to be put back together, to around $30,000 for one just out of 28 years of storage (which i would think would cost you close to that once again to make certain it didn't drop all the fluids all over the road from sitting all that time, lol) . i would think you should be able to get a really decent one (as pointed out previously) for somewhere in the mid teens.

 

[Heavy Duty]

Thanks for the info guys.

I just got back from looking at this car

I am bidding on it on e-bay (see Bossvettes link in this thread). Here is the VIN: 1Z87495902546. The car has 72,000 miles on it but it looks to be in decent shape with the exception of a few minor blemishes here and there. But nothing that would seriously subtract from the car. I like this car much better than the one I was talking to you guys about. The current bid is at 12,600.

i don't believe car fax goes back that far

I did try to do a car fax but the site kept telling me that there wasn't enough numbers in the vin. After talking to the guy with the car above I found out that these cars are 1 number short on the VIN. He ran into the same problem 5 years ago when he bought the car. The car's first owner was somewhere in the south. It was purchased by a school teacher uo here is Mass 112 years ago. He is the 3rd owner. This guy hates to get rid of the car but he just bought as '69 vette that he wants to restore. So to make room for it he is selling the pace car and will use that money to do the work. The guy is well informed about vettes and seams to know what he is talking about. I did notice what looked like a fiberglass repair job on the left front fender. You could see some of the fiber mesh under the paint. I asked him if it had been repaired there and he said that was a bonding site for the front finder parts:confused and to his knowledge the car has never been repainted or repaired. Is it possible to see bonding sites like that? What do you guys think?

Thanks


H.D.

 

[soggytaco]

I'm not to sure the one-car-per-dealership=6502 cars story is true. I don't think there's anywhere near 6502 dealerships in North America.

My local dealer (a small town outside Montreal) had three of them on the showroom floor at the same time............

The 1 car per dealership is 100% correct I have a number of corvette "history" books They all say this.