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New Engine For The C6???

Evolution1980

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Kind of hitting on a topic in the roadkill forum, the Caddy Northstar engine came up and I made mention about it. Basically, at one time GM had considered making this the new Vette engine, but for various reasons, GM decided not to use it.

Here's some more food for thought on why it might not be a bad idea...

The new 2004 Cadillac XLR has the 4.6L Northstar 32v DOHC engine. It weighs in at 3600 lbs. Here's what Car And Driver estimates after their preview car:

315 hp @ 6000rpm
310 lb-ft @ 4400rpm
1/4 mi: 14.2 @ 100mph
Top Speed: 155 (governor limited)

Now, that's the specs on a car weighing 3600 lbs! AND...and that's 4.6L versus the vette's 5.7L.

Figure this: Put that engine without a governor, in a car weighing about 500 lbs less! Now, remember the XLR's precursor, the Evoq, had an Eaton supercharger pumping it up to 405hp!

I think there's a question begging to be asked....again...
 

Edmond

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That makes sense, so therefore GM wouldn't do it! :L :L :L
 

JBsC5

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I prefer the LS6 updated engine rated at 450hp!" or 400 in the base vette..

Rumor is the new VX8 technology could get into the C6..also very impressive.

If the northstar was put in..it would dilute the Cadillac image..

I believe the Corvette and XLR are destined to travel different roads with different engines.. (JMO)

Hood lines with Northstar would be tough too...(tall motor I believe)
 
8

84Vette

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Also rumor has it Ford might bring back the 5.0 in the 2004 edition Rustang it is rated at around 400 hp. It startin to scare me how can they get so many horses for under 30 grand? I think GM needs to get their rear in gear and start making more horses. I remember hering something about the northstar in the cien or something like that. With its 750 hp it would all but startle the compotition. The caddy northstar engine would be a great jump for the 2006 vette. Someone correct me if I am wrong i will do more digging.

The one the only,

ME :beer
 

motorman

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DOHC engine

if they do that they have to raise the hood line quite a bit because of the heigth of the engine. this was written up in the book"all corvettes are red"
 

Tom73

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84Vette said:
Also rumor has it Ford might bring back the 5.0 in the 2004 edition Rustang it is rated at around 400 hp. It startin to scare me how can they get so many horses for under 30 grand?
That is easy, just build a cheap car :D
 

LMN8R

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Vette probably won't get Northstar

I was recently reading an article that outlined GM's plans for Cadillac. In it, Bob Lutz said the plan is to get Cadillac back in the race by making them unique cars with unique platforms and engines. He specifically implied that no other GM brands would be able to get their hands on the Northstar engine.

Incidentally, he stated that the Sigma platform would also be unique to Caddy, which discouraged me because I was hoping to see it used for a retro-style Camaro/Firebird comeback.

I guess that he goes against this philosophy with the XLR sharing the Vette platform/factory. I still don't think we'll see an OHC engine in the next Corvette. Rob's post from Dave Hill's [Dave McLellan - Rob. :) ]book in some other forum was also very telling regarding this issue.

My $0.02.

-Greg
 

JBsC5

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The C6 Zo6 or whatever they call it will throw out at least 450 hp..in a 2900 lbs car..Cadillac in my opinion can keep the northstar complexity..

Same goes for Ford..their motors need superchargers to compete..

The new mustangs supercharged SVT is a cool car but way outdated..Next go around they will make a 5 liter supercharged 400hp 2004.5 Sequential shift 40th anniversary car that will be a true challenge to the VETTE..
 

Edmond

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JBsC5 said:
The new mustangs supercharged SVT is a cool car but way outdated..Next go around they will make a 5 liter supercharged 400hp 2004.5 Sequential shift 40th anniversary car that will be a true challenge to the VETTE..

I think all of us will have hoped that by 2004.5, GM will have significantly improved the Vette' enough to keep the Mustang at a distance.
 

JBsC5

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I believe that as good as the new mustang will be it will at the very best just narrow the gap between it and the Vette.

No matter if its a C5 or C6 at the time..

Weight will always be the mustangs enemy even with the remake scheduled based off the Linlcon LS Chassis..( no lightweight by any means)
 

danl72

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What if GM put a supercharger in the Vette? The Cobra's has 390 hp with a supercharger, and the Vette had 350 hp without it. With a supercharger the Vette could put out between 450-500 hp. That would blow the doors off of the Rustang by far. GM doesn't make the Vette with a supercharger because they don't need to to get the power out of the motor like Ford and the others have too.
 
L

Ling_650vette

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Heard a 'rumor' (we know how those go...) about a completly camless motor being 'tested' @ the General. Infinate valve timing, all types of other goodies...supposedly reacts EXTREMLY well to boost, and will accept almost anything you throw @ it.

Now i dont know all the schematics or what it exactly would take/cost to produce a thing like this, so i can't say anything else about it.

GM is a touch too conservative w/ their cars...which i've always felt is a good thing. The C&D C6 that i saw was atrocious, imo. It didn't even look like a Corvette anymore. If the lines actually flowed and looked somewhat "corvette ish" (long nose, flip lights, quad taillights) then i may have had a different POV. Lutz has some good ideas, then he's also got some horrid ones.

Forget the blower too. I say either keep the OHV or just make a DOHC version of the LS6, then see where we sit. GM can build an OHV/DOHC motor anyday. Hell, the LT5 was a good example of that (granted, Lotus was in partner but thats beside the point lol ) SVT to me basically sat on their butt for about 8 months of that project and said "Hey, what if we add the blower off the lightning and make the block iron?" Bam, 03 Cobra.

SVT said there was no other way they could've built the power w/o the blower....PLEASE! a DOHC 4.6 is up 30+hp their 5.4 SOHC motor. Geez, the DOHC 5.4 put out 385hp in 00 w/ the Cobra R...how what would've stopped Ford from dropping that into it? Cost? please, the Fbodys dead and gone, and they have no other competition, they could charge 38k for a 5.4L DOHC cobra and if it ran the same times, people would still buy it. And people still dont realize comparing a blown pony car to a sports car is useless. Bring that Cobra out to a road course and pit it against a ZO6...cobra gets de-fanged something horrid.

Corvettes are decent drag racers and excellent road course cars. Thats what a sports cars for. Sorry for jumping around, but to get back on track, C6 should keep the same long nose, quad taillight tradition thats been around for quite a long ass time. I'm apart of this "new generation" of thought being i'm 19, but i still want a classic looking Corvette. Screw going retro, screw goin futuristic. Give me a clean flowing body w/ all the 'traditional' corvette lines and i'll be EXTREMLY happy. The power will always be there, no matter what motor it's got. DOHC, OHV, camless whatever...i just hope Chevy/GM doesn't shoot themself in the foot w/ the C6.

Only time will tell...
 
U

UB2 SLOW

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Evolution 1980 hits it on the head. The Mustang will never be a true threat to the Corvette. Thats one reason why they are bringing back the GT 40. I will say this. With the Viper, GT 40 Saleen S7 and now the 03 Cobra, GM better open their #%$^ eyes and put some HP in the Vette. Stop nickle and diming it at stick some stainless steal b$#@ downs there.
 

Edmond

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UB2 SLOW said:
Evolution 1980 hits it on the head. The Mustang will never be a true threat to the Corvette. Thats one reason why they are bringing back the GT 40. I will say this. With the Viper, GT 40 Saleen S7 and now the 03 Cobra, GM better open their #%$^ eyes and put some HP in the Vette. Stop nickle and diming it at stick some stainless steal b$#@ downs there.

I totally agree with everything that you just said. Seems like GM is so worried about the stockholders, etc... Buddy of mine that sells cars for Chevy outright told me that Corvette's aren't the bread and butter. Sure, they sell a lot of new Vette's every year, but how much of a percentage of GM's sales are Corvette sales? I'd say not much so why not give the Corvette crowd a little more than they have lately?

Look at Dodge, they have their economy cars, just like GM and Ford; yet Dodge doesn't hold the Viper back like GM does with the Corvette. Seems like GM thinks that the Corvette is 'just another car' and has lumped them into the mass. Ford has their SVT team that's an inhouse tuner.

The only good thing that GM is doing is making other's rich by developing products to make their Vette's go faster.
 
B

Bullitt

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The problem with camless engines running on electric/magnetic solenoids was encountered by [COLOR=dark-blue]Renault[/COLOR], when they researched that idea for their Formula 1 effort. The problem of course is engine height. Though the camshaft is removed from the engine, you still must mount the solenoid under the valve cover. Consider that Renault makes the widest F1 engine legally possible and that Grand Prix engines are some of the most powerful in the world when considering their dimensions and weight. Center of gravity also comes into play. Cost can be an issue when the philosopy of the engine changes, but top teams spend close to $160 million per year. How this affects production vehicles is questionable, but then again, Audi seems to be reinventing the innerworking of their transmissions.

--Bullitt
 

JohnnyC

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A few years ago, my friend came down to visit in his fathers late 90's Cadillac STS. He let me drive it and we got to this parking lot, turned off the traction control system and I was pealing out all over the place. I recall it was slightly damp out side, but we were fish tailing and doing 180's no problem. It was great driving a BIG car with a BIG engine. The way mother nature intended.

For the C6 (Cadillac cross-over) I hope they do something similar to the LT1'd Caprices and Impalas, maybe have an option for the Caddys to get the ungraded V8 of the Corvettes. Otherwise, if they shared the "base" engine, in my opinion, it would deminish the exclusive nature the Corvette engine has always had.

And if that happened, it may mean doom for the Corvette.

I think the C6 should start with the LS6 motor and take it from there, turn the Z06 into the new Corvette. Let the Viper try to catch that!

John

PS I hate Ford's an much as the next Corvette driver, but I have to admit that new GT 40 looks awesome and wouldn't mind being seen in that beast.
 

JohnnyC

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Quick additon. I forgot what magazine this was, it was Popular Mechanics, or Popular Science, etc, but apparently GM went out to HS and Art schools, and asked them to help design the new Corvette.

The pic that appeared in the mag was really cool. It was the same front as C4/C5-ish, but the back was like the first stingrays of 1963-67. bubble-ish window but sleaker. It looked totally awesome... I am going to spend some time trying to find this picture. I'll post if I find it. Anyone else saw this? It was probably a few months ago (3-6 months). I dont recall.

I hope they don't mess up the new Corvette.

Keeping my fingers crossed,
John
 
B

Bullitt

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Was it the Larry Shinoda rendition of "his" C5, that you saw? I think he drew it a few months before his death. It had the bubble looking rear split window, also. I don't have a scanner, so I can't post it yet. :(

--Bullitt
 

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