Oil temp before nailing it?
- Thread starter froggy47
- Start date
vader86
Well-known member
I prefer it to be above 180F before i nail it.
Mad-Mic
Gone but not forgotten
as long as i got oil pressure i'm good to go!
Ken
Gone but not forgotten
Not a good idea Mic, if you have an external oil cooler; you're liable to burst it. :eek You want to get it at least to where you can see a temperature indication on your gauge. 
_ken
_ken
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2002
- Messages
- 934
- Location
- Westchester,New York
- Corvette
- 1989 Callaway Twin Turbo Aerobody Coupe
Callaway Twin Turbo's require the oil temp to be 165 degrees before driving in a boost condition.
Ken said:Not a good idea Mic, if you have an external oil cooler; you're liable to burst it. :eek You want to get it at least to where you can see a temperature indication on your gauge.
_ken
I believe coolant will be around 196 when that happens?
RedRagTop
Well-known member
I make sure the "LO" changes to a digital figure before driving the car and let the coolant hit about 60+ before hard acceleration. By this point the oil temp and viscosity should allow safe revving. Mind I keep all gauges reading in metric values.
C
c4ever
Guest
180 and not before:nono
carlo
carlo
Mad-Mic
Gone but not forgotten
Gotcha 
S
Sone
Guest
Just got my Vette so I am conservative, but I wait till above 150..
before I would get on it.
:Silly
before I would get on it.
:Silly
- Thread starter
- #12
Robertwav1
Well-known member
I always make sure the car is hot before "gettin on it". 150 oil temp at least!
F
fore
Guest
I got around 180-200
grumpyvette
Well-known member
extensive testing by smokey yunick for G.M. conclusively proved that most engines make the best power in the 220F-240F oil temp range and that oil protects the bearings best at temps in the 230f-250f range,most mineral oils start to break down at about 260f so synthetic oil is the better choice if wide swings in engine temps durring competion are normal with your engine set up. do what you want to, but Ill take SMOKEYs advise gathered from THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF DYNO testing over theory any day!
Robertwav1
Well-known member
Hey grumpyvette,
A point well noted! I believe in statistical studies also.
A point well noted! I believe in statistical studies also.
grumpyvette
Well-known member
more oil system info you can use
the oil pump can only pump as much oil as the engine clearances allow at the max pressure that the oil pump bye -pass circuit will allow, and no more. for your idea to be correct (which it could be under some conditions)the oil flow through the engine clearances would need to be so great that the pump turning at 3500rpm,7000rpm engine speed(remember the pump spins 1/2 the speed the crank does)and most likely pumping at max pressure could lower the oil level to the point that the pick-up becomes uncovered or a vortex as you call it forms and the pump starts sucking air.
now under hard acceleration it is very possiable for the pickup on ANY oil pump to to become uncovered in a oil pan that has less than 5qt capacity and with no oil control baffles as the oil rushes to the rear of the oil pan if the pick-up is located in mid pan or under hard brakeing if the pick-up is located at the rear of the pan on a non- oil baffle controlled pan.
I started out with a Z-28 sbc oil pump, It failed to supply the needed oil volume in my racing engine, I swapped to a high volume sbc pump with 1.5" pump gears and it worked OK , but still failed to build pressure fast enough to meet my needs, now before you get any incorrect ideas, understand that a full racing ,(road racing engine) has several mods to inhance lubracation and needs extra oil flow, to keep the bearings cool durring some races that last HOURS not seconds like in drag racing, heres a few of the mods
The bottom of a Chevrolet distributor housing can be modified to spray pressurized oil onto the distributor drive gear. The extra lubrication will reduce distributor gear and camshaft gear wear. This is especially important when the gear is used to drive non-standard accessories, such as a high volume oil pump, or a magneto that puts additional loads on it and the cam. <P>When the distributor is installed, the bands at the bottom of the housing are designed to complete the internal right side lifter galley on all small and big block Chevrolet V-8 and 90° V-6 engines. If you hand file a small vertical groove .030" wide x .030"( <B>thats the diam. that crane recommends Ive always used the larger groove with no problems</B>)deep on the bottom band (above the gear), pressurized oil running between the two bands will be directed downward onto both the gear and the cam. This procedure is recommended for all Chevrolet engines no matter what material gear (cast or bronze) or what type of camshaft (cast or steel) you are using
< keep in mind the groove MUST be lined up with the cam gear when the distrib. is installed , this tends to prevent cam/distributor gear wear
I GROUVE MY LIFTER BORES for extra oil flow directly on the cam lobes at all times, for more than stock oil flow.
LOOK HERE
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/335.html
I also drill two of the front lifter gallery plugs to spray oil dirrectly on the back of the gear cam drive I use
I also drill and pin the main cap webs to spray oil directly onto the underside of the pistons to cool them.
that extra oil spray requires the windage screen and larger bbc oil pump
those mods have allowed the same basic engine to race for over 7 years with NO BEARING FAILURES even with frequent and almost constant 5000rpm- 6400rpm use for long periods of time, far exceeding the beating by hundreds of times the stress a drag racing engine sees. something that can,t be said for the engines Ive built and seen built useing the standard volume oil pump! the LS7 BBC oil pump supplies a rock solid 65-70lbs of oil pressure from 4000-7000rpm whether Im accellerateing, brakeing, or spinning wildly
BTW this info on engine prep and breakin might be of interest
first spray the contact surfaces with this ultra penatrateing moly-disulfide lube the carrier in the spray can allow the moly to soak into the metals surface,this stuff has been proven to coat the inside surface of rifle barrels and drastically reduce wear and friction even at temps of over 500 degs(F) and at pressures over 50,000psi,this forms your base layer,moly disulfide greatly increases the load and heat carrying ability of the lubericant and coating the surface with a layer of ultra-fine 20 micron moly before coating things with the lube gets the moly into the metal surfaces (check out the electron microscope photos) next use a good assembly lube that contains moly disulfide and/or zinc dialkyt-dithiophosphate both of which greatly add to the extreme pressure and heat resistance on the bearing or cam lobe surfaces.
heres some sources; http://www.msmoly.com/ http://www.erspros.com/langdon/engine_products/28.html http://www.mrmoly.com/catalog.html http://www.schaefferoil.com/data/221.html
these are proven Anti-Wear Agents
These agents prevent wear due to seizure or rubbing surfaces. Compounds such a zinc dialkyt-dithiophosphate break-down microscopic hot spots and form a chemical filter which eliminates metal-to-metal contact.
also read this because the quality of the oil you use also has a big effect on how your engine wears during its lifetime. http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html
REMEMBER WHAT YOUR TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH IS THE TOTAL PREVENTION OF METAL TO METAL CONTACT, AND ONLY THE BEST ANTI-WEAR LUBERICANTS PLACED BETWEEN CONTACT SURFACES AND FLOWING INTO THE CLEARANCES CAN DO THAT !
BTW DON,T FORGET TO PRELUBE THE ENGINE WITH AN ENGINE PRELUBER WHILE TURNING IT OVER BY HAND UNTILL OIL FLOWS FROM ALL THE PUSH RODS ONTO ALL THE ROCKER ARMS BEFORE STARTING A NEW ENGINE! and make sure your oil and coolent levels are correct too!"
--------------------
then this http://www.dorianyeager.com/oilfilterstudy1.html
http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html
I know you already checked ALL YOUR CLEARANCES ARE CORRECT!RIGHT? READ THIS FIRST http://www.chevytalk.org/forums/Forum64/HTML/005908.html
ok first make sure the ignition timeing , coolent levels are correct, all the hoses are conected ETC and a good oil filter is installed, add a can of G.M. E.O.S. to the oil(G.M.part #1052367 )
ENGOILSUP
EOS - Engine Assembly Prelube
Specifically formulated as an engine assembly lubricant. E.O.S. provides outstanding protection against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in camshaft lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication.)
fill the engine with a good brand of MINERAL BASE OIL of about 10w-30 weight (VALVEOLINE, ETC. anything with a S/G or S/H rateing
next prime the oil pump while turning the engine over BY HAND SLOWLY untill oil runs out of all the push rod/rocker arms (if it doesn,t find out WHY BEFORE STARTING THE ENGINE) this is a good time to roughly adjust your valves if you have not yet done so. once everything checks outget the garden hose running if you might need it to cool the radiator and if you have one keep a fire extinguisher handy, check the float levels in the carb and fuel pressure is ok and fire it up with a timeing light on the motor, finish timeing it correctly and get it to at least 1500rpm-2000rpm and keep it at least that high for 15 minutes, if everything looks good take it for an around the block tour for an hour too 90 more minutes, bring it home, let it cool and change the oil filter(after 100 miles change the oil and oil filter again to mobile 1 synthetic in what ever weigth will keep 25lbs of hot oil pressure at idle, after you have changed to mobile 1 synthetic and broken in the rings and cam your ready to run the crap out of it at the 100 mile mark, by that time everthing is lapped in BTW I always stick four of these magnets in the corners of the oil pan sump , you will be amazed at how much metalic dust they pick out of the oil and keep from getting to your bearings,(either one works fine)
http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet2.html
http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet42.html
or
http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet1.html
and I put one in each corner of the oil pan sump and 2 more in the other end of the oil pan but if you dont want to pull the pan stick them to the outside of the pan they will work that way almost as well! these are not your typical refrigerator magnets these WILL CATCH ANY IRON DUST IN YOUR ENGINE!!
synthetic oil has much greater film strength that it slows the lapping in of the lifters to cam lobes and rings to cylinder walls to a great extent, yes you can use synthetic oil to break in an engine but it will take longer and in some cases the rings don,t completely seal to the cylinders for about 500 miles while breaking in on mineral oil everythings lapped in by 100 miles or 3 hrs of running time. and yes constantly vary the engine speed durring break in but it must be in the 1500rpm-4000rpm window for proper oil flow/splash lubracation of the parts, btw this tool adds greatly to the oil flow to the cam lobes,
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/335.html
and read this
http://www.melling.com/engoil.html
http://www.melling.com/highvol.html
Im NOT recommending you rev your new engine to 4000rpm, I Am saying its ok to let a new engine get to 4000rpm MAX for brief periods OCCASIONALLY going from gear to gear shifting under light load as a max rpm level as you accelerate going thru the gears in the car during that first 3 hours or 100 miles and during the first hour of running time there is FAR MORE HEAT ON THE CONTACT POINTS AS THE RINGS AND LIFTERS LAP IN and those magnets I mentioned pick up lots of metalic dust, and that can get embeded into your bearings without those magnets. BASICALLY what your doing durring that first hour and to some extent the first hundred miles is letting all the high spots wear away and the metalic dust formed wash into the sump in the oil pan where its picked up by magnets if your smart or by the oil pump and hopefully trapped by the filter BEFORE IT GETS TO THE BEARINGS ETC.another reason they tell you to keep the engine rpms low durring breakin is to try to insure the oil filter bypass valve stays shut by keeping the oil pressure in the mid ranges to hopefully allow ALL the metallic dust to pass thru the filter,btw the main reason they tell you to keep the rpms at at least 1500rpm is because the cam is mostly lubracated by oil thrown from the spinning rods/crankshaft and below 1500rpm there is significantly less oil being thrown around in the lower block by the rotateing assembly and that the cam lobes on a flat tappet cam need to have that oil film on the lobes for the metal to lap in and work harden the mateing surfaces between the lifters and cam lobes. that tool I refered to causes high pressure oil to constantly spray on that lobe surface greatly increaseing the oil flow to the contact area and helping to prevent lobe failures, it also helpd spray extra oil on roller wheels on roller cams/lifters, look here at lifter #866
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/261.html
notice the oil groove! that is there to do the same job!
I will grant you that it is possiable for ANY oil pump to pump a good amount of oil into the lifter gallery at high rpms IF THE OIL RETURN PASSAGES IN THE HEADS AND LIFTER GALLERY ARE BLOCKED, preventing its normal return to the crankcase
, but running a high volume oil pump will have little or nothing to do with how much oil is in the pan if the engines drain back holes are clear and your useing a milodon style windage screen.
look closely youll notice most oil never gets pumped higher than the lifters before returning to the oil pan sump,
I have several times had that same complaint about lack of oil pressure under acceleration but it is caused by a non-baffled pan or the pickup mounted so close to the pan bottom that the pump cant get a good intake flow, if you carefully check youll find that on a dyno runs it seldom happens,because the oil is constantly removed by the windage screen is returned to the sump, most of the oil pumped into the system exits at the rod and main bearing clearances or at the cam bearings and from the lifter bores lower ends, its not the constant oil flow or lack of oil into the rocker arms that has the big effect on total oil flow as SMOKEY YUNICKS PHOTOGRAPIC RESEARCH PROVED YEARS AGO,its the oil flowing from the bearings and lifters and that oil flow is quickly returned to the sump by a windage screen scrapeing it off the spinning crank and rods as the spinning assembly passes over the windage screen. in effect most of the oil in an engine works like your timeing chain in that it constantly cycles top to botton and back never getting higher than the cam bearing lifter area.
now what does quite frequently happen is that the guys installing a high volume oil pump just swap out the standard pump, reinstall the stock or simular pick-up and bolt on the pan with the pick-up in the stock possition on the oil pump. the stock pick-up is mounted about 3/8" off the pan bottom,the high volume pump is normally equiped with impeller gears about .3 inches longer than stock, the high volume pump body is that much lower in the pan, resulting in the pick-up being only about 1/8" from the pan bottom. the result is that on a normal chevy oil pump pick-up this leave a space of about 1/8" x 2.5" for oil to flow into the pump. at low rpms this works but as the rpms climb the pick-up that can,t get any oil to pump, it cavitates as it spins and fails to pump oil, result oil pressure drops untill rpms are lowered no matter how much oil is over the pick-up. simply checking to make sure that anout 1/2" of space is under the pick-up when the pan is installed cures that problem (a simple trick is to weld a 1/2" thick nut to the oil pump Pick-up base and test fitting the pan BEFORE WELDING THE PICK-UP TO THE PUMP BODY) A QUICK TEST IS TO JUST ADD 2 EXTRA QUARTS OF OIL, IF THE RESULTS DON,T CHANGE WITH THE ADDED OIL,YOUR OBVIOUSLY NOT PUMPING ALL THE OIL INTO THE UPPER ENGINE,STARVING THE PUMP, YOUR HAVING A OIL CONTROL PROBLEM,THATS CAUSEING THE PUMP TO RUN OUT OF OIL,NOT THE OIL PAN TO RUN OUT OF OIL
what it comes down too in every case that Ive looked into so far is a improperly positioned pick-up or a non- baffled oil pan without a windage screen or less than 5 qts of oil in the system, not a problem of all available oil being pumped into the lifter gallery and valve covers like some people would like you to think.
the MELLING COMPANY HAS THIS TO SAY
Most of the stock automobile engines are designed to operate from idle to 4500 RPM. The original volume and pressure oil pump will work fine in this type of application. As the demands on the engine increase so does the demands on the oiling system and pump.
The oil pump's most difficult task is to supply oil to the connecting rod bearing that is the farthest from the pump. To reach this bearing, the oil travels from three to four feet, turns numerous square corners thru small holes in the crankshaft to the rod bearing. The rod bearing doesn't help matters. It is traveling in a circle which means centrifugal force is pulling the oil out of the bearing.
A 350 Chevy has a 3.4811 stroke and a 2.111 rod journal. The outer edge of the journal travels 17.5311 every revolution. At 1000 RPM, the outer edge is traveling at 16.6 MPH and 74.7 MPH at 4500 RPM. If we take this engine to 6500 the outer edge is up to 107.9 and at 8500 it is 141.1 MPH. Now imagine driving a car around a curve at those speeds and you can feel the centrifugal force. Now imagine doing it around a circle with a 5.581, diameter.
The size of the gears or rotors determines the amount of oil a pump can move at any given RPM. Resistance to this movement creates the pressure. If a pump is not large enough to meet the demands of the engine, there will not be any pressure. Or if the demands of the engine are increased beyond the pumps capabilities there will be a loss of oil pressure. This is where high volume pumps come in; they take care of any increased demands of the engine.
Increases in the engine's oil requirements come from higher RPM, being able to rev faster, increased bearing clearances, remote oil cooler and/or filter and any combination of these. Most high volume pumps also have a increase in pressure to help get the oil out to the bearings faster.
That is what a high volume pump will do. Now let Is consider what it will not do.
It will not replace a rebuild in a worn-out engine. It may increase pressure but the engine is still worn-out.
It will not pump the oil pan dry. Both solid and hydraulic lifters have metering valves to limit flow of the oil to the top of the engine. If a pan is pumped dry, it is because the holes that drain oil back to the pan are plugged. If the high volume pump is also higher pressure, there will be a slight increase in flow to the top.
It will not wear out distributor gears. The load on the gear is directly related to the resistance to flow. Oil pressure is the measure of resistance to flow. The Ford 427 FE "side oiler" used a pump with relief valve set at 125 psi and it used a standard distributor gear. Distributor gear failures are usually caused by a worn gear on a new cam gear and/or worn bearings allowing misalignment.
It will not cause foaming of the oil. With any oil pump, the excess oil not needed by the engine is recirculated within the pump. Any additional foaming is usually created by revving the engine higher. The oil thrown from the rod bearings is going faster and causes the foaming. This is why high performance engines use a windage tray.
It will not cause spark scatter. Because of the pump pressure there is a load on the distributor gear. The number of teeth on the oil pump gears determine the number of impulses per revolution of the pump. In a SB Chevy there are seven teeth on each gear giving 14 impulses per revolution. At 6000 RPM the oil pump is turning 3000 RPM or 50 revolutions per second. To have an effect on the distributor, these impulses would have to vibrate the distributor gear through an intermediate shaft that has loose connections at both ends. Spark scatter is usually caused by weak springs in the points or dust inside the distributor cap.
High volume pumps can be a big advantage if used where needed. If installed in an engine that does not need the additional volume, they will not create a problem. The additional flow will be recirculated within the pump.
http://www.melling.com/highvol.html
http://www.melling.com/engoil.html
ok lets look at a few things, pressure is the result of a resistance to flow , no matter how much oil is put out by the oil pump there is almost no pressure unless there is a resistance to that oil flow and the main resistance is from oil trying to flow through the bearing surface clearances and once the pumps output pressure exceeds the engines ability to accept the oilflow at the max pressure the oil return system/bypass spring allows the oil circles back through the pump ,now the amount of oil flow necessary to reach the furthest parts in the engine from the oil pump does not go up in direct relation to rpm, but it instead increases with rpm at a steadly increaseing rate that increases faster than the engine rpm due to centrifugal force draining the oil from the rods as they swing faster and faster since energy increases with the square of the velocity the rate of oil use goes up quite a bit faster due to the greatly increased (G-FORCES) pulling oil from the rod bearings over 5000rpm going to 8000rpm than the rate of oil flow increases from 2000 rpm to 5000rpm (the same 3000rpm spread) and remember the often stated (10 lbs per 1000rpm)needs to be measured at the furthest rod and main bearing from the pump not at the pump itself, next lets look at the oil flow itself, you have about 5-6 quarts in an average small block now the valve covers never get and hold more than about 1/3 to 2/3 of a quart each even at 8000 rpm (high speed photography by SMOKEY YUNICK doing stock car engine research with clear plastic valve covers prove that from what Ive read) theres about 1 quart in the lifter gallery at max and theres about 1 quart in the filter and in the oil passages in the block, that leaves at least 2 quarts in the pan at all times and for those that want to tell me about oil wrapped around the crankshaft at high rpms try squirting oil on a spinning surface doing even 2000rpm (yes thats right its thrown off as fast as it hits by centrifugal force, yes its possiable for the crankshaft WITHOUT A WINDAGE SCREEN to keep acting like a propeler and pulling oil around with it in the crank case but thats what the wrap around style milodon type windage screen is designed to stop)the only way to run out of oil is to start with less than 4 quarts or to plug the oil return passages in the lifter gallery with sludge or gasket material! now add a good windage tray and a crank scrapper and almost all the oil is returned to the sump as it enters the area of the spinning crankshaft! forming a more or less endless supply to the oil pump, BTW almost all pro teams now use DRY SUMP SYSTEMS WITH POSITIVE DISPLACEMENT GERATOR PUMPS that are 3,4,or 5 stage pumps each section of which has more voluum than a standard voluum oil pump because its been found total oil control is necessary at high rpms to keep bearings cool and lubed
NOW I POSTED THIS BEFORE BUT IT NEEDs REPEATING
ok look at it this way,what your trying to do here is keep an pressureized oil film on the surface of all the bearings to lube and cool them and have enough oil spraying from the rod and main bearing clearances to lube the cam and cylinder walls/rings. now a standard pump does a good job up to 5000rpm and 400 hp but above 6000rpm and 400hp the bearings are under more stress and need more oilflow to cool and because the pressure on the bearings is greater you need higher pressures to maintain that oilfilm.lets look at the flow verus pressure curve. since oil is a liquid its non-compressable and flow will increase with rpm up to the point where the bypass circuit starts to re-route the excess flow at the point were the pressure exceeds the bypass spring pressure. but the voluum will be equal to the pumps sweep voluum times the rpm of the pump, since the high voluum pump has a sweep voluum 1.3-1.5 times the standard pump voluum it will push 1.3-1.5 times the voluum of oil up to the bypass cicuit cut in point,that means that since the engine bearings leakage rate increases faster as the rpms increase because the clearances don,t change but the bleed off rate does that the amount of oil and the pressure that it is under will increase faster and reach the bypass circuit pressure faster with the high voluum pump. the advantage here is that the metal parts MUST be floated on that oil film to keep the metal parts from touching/wearing and the more leakage points the oil flows by the less the voluum of oil thats available for each leakage point beyond it and as the oil heats up it becomes easier to push through the clearences.now as the rpms and cylinder preasures increase in your goal to add power the loads trying to squeeze that oil out of those clearances also increase. ALL mods that increase power either increase rpms,cylinder preasures or reduce friction or mechanical losses. there are many oil leakage points(100) in a standard chevy engine.
16 lifter to push rod points
16 pushrod to rocker arm points
32 lifter bores 16 x 2 ends
10 main bearing edges
9 cam bearing edges
16 rod bearing edges
2 distributor shaft leaks
1 distributor shaft to shim above the cam gear(some engines that have an oil pressure feed distributor shaft bearing.)
so the more oil volume the better as long as that oil flow is totally under control, and that will in most engines require both a baffled oil pan and a windage screen correctly installed in a block with clear oil drain back holes if the engine is going to be run a high rpm levels, changes in the oil pump pick-up location in the oil pan of only about 1/8" are sufficient to noticably effect the efficientcy of the pumps abillity to effectively control/supply oil
BTW,YOU CONTROL the volume of oil flowing thru your engine to a great extent when you set up the ENGINEs BEARING CLEARANCES, and you CONTROL the rate of oil flow back to the sump by checking that all the drain back holes are clear and by useing a milodon style windage screen properly mounted about 1/8" from the spinning crank assembly, the oil pump pick-up mounted about 3/8"-1/2" off the floor of the oil pan and by useing a properly designed oil pan with matching oil pump pick-up. the greater the voluum of oil flowing over the bearings the more heat can be carried away and the more constant the surface temp. can be. and before someone jumps in with that old myth that oil flowing over the surfaces to fast will fail to pick up the heat from the bearings let me point out this chart
bearing clearances larger than about 1.5-2 thousands tend to flow more oil than necessary, making the oil flow back to the sump harder to control
the oil pump can only pump as much oil as the engine clearances allow at the max pressure that the oil pump bye -pass circuit will allow, and no more. for your idea to be correct (which it could be under some conditions)the oil flow through the engine clearances would need to be so great that the pump turning at 3500rpm,7000rpm engine speed(remember the pump spins 1/2 the speed the crank does)and most likely pumping at max pressure could lower the oil level to the point that the pick-up becomes uncovered or a vortex as you call it forms and the pump starts sucking air.
now under hard acceleration it is very possiable for the pickup on ANY oil pump to to become uncovered in a oil pan that has less than 5qt capacity and with no oil control baffles as the oil rushes to the rear of the oil pan if the pick-up is located in mid pan or under hard brakeing if the pick-up is located at the rear of the pan on a non- oil baffle controlled pan.
I started out with a Z-28 sbc oil pump, It failed to supply the needed oil volume in my racing engine, I swapped to a high volume sbc pump with 1.5" pump gears and it worked OK , but still failed to build pressure fast enough to meet my needs, now before you get any incorrect ideas, understand that a full racing ,(road racing engine) has several mods to inhance lubracation and needs extra oil flow, to keep the bearings cool durring some races that last HOURS not seconds like in drag racing, heres a few of the mods
The bottom of a Chevrolet distributor housing can be modified to spray pressurized oil onto the distributor drive gear. The extra lubrication will reduce distributor gear and camshaft gear wear. This is especially important when the gear is used to drive non-standard accessories, such as a high volume oil pump, or a magneto that puts additional loads on it and the cam. <P>When the distributor is installed, the bands at the bottom of the housing are designed to complete the internal right side lifter galley on all small and big block Chevrolet V-8 and 90° V-6 engines. If you hand file a small vertical groove .030" wide x .030"( <B>thats the diam. that crane recommends Ive always used the larger groove with no problems</B>)deep on the bottom band (above the gear), pressurized oil running between the two bands will be directed downward onto both the gear and the cam. This procedure is recommended for all Chevrolet engines no matter what material gear (cast or bronze) or what type of camshaft (cast or steel) you are using
I GROUVE MY LIFTER BORES for extra oil flow directly on the cam lobes at all times, for more than stock oil flow.
LOOK HERE
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/335.html
I also drill two of the front lifter gallery plugs to spray oil dirrectly on the back of the gear cam drive I use
I also drill and pin the main cap webs to spray oil directly onto the underside of the pistons to cool them.
that extra oil spray requires the windage screen and larger bbc oil pump
those mods have allowed the same basic engine to race for over 7 years with NO BEARING FAILURES even with frequent and almost constant 5000rpm- 6400rpm use for long periods of time, far exceeding the beating by hundreds of times the stress a drag racing engine sees. something that can,t be said for the engines Ive built and seen built useing the standard volume oil pump! the LS7 BBC oil pump supplies a rock solid 65-70lbs of oil pressure from 4000-7000rpm whether Im accellerateing, brakeing, or spinning wildly
BTW this info on engine prep and breakin might be of interest
first spray the contact surfaces with this ultra penatrateing moly-disulfide lube the carrier in the spray can allow the moly to soak into the metals surface,this stuff has been proven to coat the inside surface of rifle barrels and drastically reduce wear and friction even at temps of over 500 degs(F) and at pressures over 50,000psi,this forms your base layer,moly disulfide greatly increases the load and heat carrying ability of the lubericant and coating the surface with a layer of ultra-fine 20 micron moly before coating things with the lube gets the moly into the metal surfaces (check out the electron microscope photos) next use a good assembly lube that contains moly disulfide and/or zinc dialkyt-dithiophosphate both of which greatly add to the extreme pressure and heat resistance on the bearing or cam lobe surfaces.
heres some sources; http://www.msmoly.com/ http://www.erspros.com/langdon/engine_products/28.html http://www.mrmoly.com/catalog.html http://www.schaefferoil.com/data/221.html
these are proven Anti-Wear Agents
These agents prevent wear due to seizure or rubbing surfaces. Compounds such a zinc dialkyt-dithiophosphate break-down microscopic hot spots and form a chemical filter which eliminates metal-to-metal contact.
also read this because the quality of the oil you use also has a big effect on how your engine wears during its lifetime. http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html
REMEMBER WHAT YOUR TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH IS THE TOTAL PREVENTION OF METAL TO METAL CONTACT, AND ONLY THE BEST ANTI-WEAR LUBERICANTS PLACED BETWEEN CONTACT SURFACES AND FLOWING INTO THE CLEARANCES CAN DO THAT !
BTW DON,T FORGET TO PRELUBE THE ENGINE WITH AN ENGINE PRELUBER WHILE TURNING IT OVER BY HAND UNTILL OIL FLOWS FROM ALL THE PUSH RODS ONTO ALL THE ROCKER ARMS BEFORE STARTING A NEW ENGINE! and make sure your oil and coolent levels are correct too!"
--------------------
then this http://www.dorianyeager.com/oilfilterstudy1.html
http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html
I know you already checked ALL YOUR CLEARANCES ARE CORRECT!RIGHT? READ THIS FIRST http://www.chevytalk.org/forums/Forum64/HTML/005908.html
ok first make sure the ignition timeing , coolent levels are correct, all the hoses are conected ETC and a good oil filter is installed, add a can of G.M. E.O.S. to the oil(G.M.part #1052367 )
ENGOILSUP
EOS - Engine Assembly Prelube
Specifically formulated as an engine assembly lubricant. E.O.S. provides outstanding protection against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in camshaft lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication.)
fill the engine with a good brand of MINERAL BASE OIL of about 10w-30 weight (VALVEOLINE, ETC. anything with a S/G or S/H rateing
next prime the oil pump while turning the engine over BY HAND SLOWLY untill oil runs out of all the push rod/rocker arms (if it doesn,t find out WHY BEFORE STARTING THE ENGINE) this is a good time to roughly adjust your valves if you have not yet done so. once everything checks outget the garden hose running if you might need it to cool the radiator and if you have one keep a fire extinguisher handy, check the float levels in the carb and fuel pressure is ok and fire it up with a timeing light on the motor, finish timeing it correctly and get it to at least 1500rpm-2000rpm and keep it at least that high for 15 minutes, if everything looks good take it for an around the block tour for an hour too 90 more minutes, bring it home, let it cool and change the oil filter(after 100 miles change the oil and oil filter again to mobile 1 synthetic in what ever weigth will keep 25lbs of hot oil pressure at idle, after you have changed to mobile 1 synthetic and broken in the rings and cam your ready to run the crap out of it at the 100 mile mark, by that time everthing is lapped in BTW I always stick four of these magnets in the corners of the oil pan sump , you will be amazed at how much metalic dust they pick out of the oil and keep from getting to your bearings,(either one works fine)
http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet2.html
http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet42.html
or
http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet1.html
and I put one in each corner of the oil pan sump and 2 more in the other end of the oil pan but if you dont want to pull the pan stick them to the outside of the pan they will work that way almost as well! these are not your typical refrigerator magnets these WILL CATCH ANY IRON DUST IN YOUR ENGINE!!
synthetic oil has much greater film strength that it slows the lapping in of the lifters to cam lobes and rings to cylinder walls to a great extent, yes you can use synthetic oil to break in an engine but it will take longer and in some cases the rings don,t completely seal to the cylinders for about 500 miles while breaking in on mineral oil everythings lapped in by 100 miles or 3 hrs of running time. and yes constantly vary the engine speed durring break in but it must be in the 1500rpm-4000rpm window for proper oil flow/splash lubracation of the parts, btw this tool adds greatly to the oil flow to the cam lobes,
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/335.html
and read this
http://www.melling.com/engoil.html
http://www.melling.com/highvol.html
Im NOT recommending you rev your new engine to 4000rpm, I Am saying its ok to let a new engine get to 4000rpm MAX for brief periods OCCASIONALLY going from gear to gear shifting under light load as a max rpm level as you accelerate going thru the gears in the car during that first 3 hours or 100 miles and during the first hour of running time there is FAR MORE HEAT ON THE CONTACT POINTS AS THE RINGS AND LIFTERS LAP IN and those magnets I mentioned pick up lots of metalic dust, and that can get embeded into your bearings without those magnets. BASICALLY what your doing durring that first hour and to some extent the first hundred miles is letting all the high spots wear away and the metalic dust formed wash into the sump in the oil pan where its picked up by magnets if your smart or by the oil pump and hopefully trapped by the filter BEFORE IT GETS TO THE BEARINGS ETC.another reason they tell you to keep the engine rpms low durring breakin is to try to insure the oil filter bypass valve stays shut by keeping the oil pressure in the mid ranges to hopefully allow ALL the metallic dust to pass thru the filter,btw the main reason they tell you to keep the rpms at at least 1500rpm is because the cam is mostly lubracated by oil thrown from the spinning rods/crankshaft and below 1500rpm there is significantly less oil being thrown around in the lower block by the rotateing assembly and that the cam lobes on a flat tappet cam need to have that oil film on the lobes for the metal to lap in and work harden the mateing surfaces between the lifters and cam lobes. that tool I refered to causes high pressure oil to constantly spray on that lobe surface greatly increaseing the oil flow to the contact area and helping to prevent lobe failures, it also helpd spray extra oil on roller wheels on roller cams/lifters, look here at lifter #866
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/261.html
notice the oil groove! that is there to do the same job!
I will grant you that it is possiable for ANY oil pump to pump a good amount of oil into the lifter gallery at high rpms IF THE OIL RETURN PASSAGES IN THE HEADS AND LIFTER GALLERY ARE BLOCKED, preventing its normal return to the crankcase
, but running a high volume oil pump will have little or nothing to do with how much oil is in the pan if the engines drain back holes are clear and your useing a milodon style windage screen.
look closely youll notice most oil never gets pumped higher than the lifters before returning to the oil pan sump,
I have several times had that same complaint about lack of oil pressure under acceleration but it is caused by a non-baffled pan or the pickup mounted so close to the pan bottom that the pump cant get a good intake flow, if you carefully check youll find that on a dyno runs it seldom happens,because the oil is constantly removed by the windage screen is returned to the sump, most of the oil pumped into the system exits at the rod and main bearing clearances or at the cam bearings and from the lifter bores lower ends, its not the constant oil flow or lack of oil into the rocker arms that has the big effect on total oil flow as SMOKEY YUNICKS PHOTOGRAPIC RESEARCH PROVED YEARS AGO,its the oil flowing from the bearings and lifters and that oil flow is quickly returned to the sump by a windage screen scrapeing it off the spinning crank and rods as the spinning assembly passes over the windage screen. in effect most of the oil in an engine works like your timeing chain in that it constantly cycles top to botton and back never getting higher than the cam bearing lifter area.
now what does quite frequently happen is that the guys installing a high volume oil pump just swap out the standard pump, reinstall the stock or simular pick-up and bolt on the pan with the pick-up in the stock possition on the oil pump. the stock pick-up is mounted about 3/8" off the pan bottom,the high volume pump is normally equiped with impeller gears about .3 inches longer than stock, the high volume pump body is that much lower in the pan, resulting in the pick-up being only about 1/8" from the pan bottom. the result is that on a normal chevy oil pump pick-up this leave a space of about 1/8" x 2.5" for oil to flow into the pump. at low rpms this works but as the rpms climb the pick-up that can,t get any oil to pump, it cavitates as it spins and fails to pump oil, result oil pressure drops untill rpms are lowered no matter how much oil is over the pick-up. simply checking to make sure that anout 1/2" of space is under the pick-up when the pan is installed cures that problem (a simple trick is to weld a 1/2" thick nut to the oil pump Pick-up base and test fitting the pan BEFORE WELDING THE PICK-UP TO THE PUMP BODY) A QUICK TEST IS TO JUST ADD 2 EXTRA QUARTS OF OIL, IF THE RESULTS DON,T CHANGE WITH THE ADDED OIL,YOUR OBVIOUSLY NOT PUMPING ALL THE OIL INTO THE UPPER ENGINE,STARVING THE PUMP, YOUR HAVING A OIL CONTROL PROBLEM,THATS CAUSEING THE PUMP TO RUN OUT OF OIL,NOT THE OIL PAN TO RUN OUT OF OIL
what it comes down too in every case that Ive looked into so far is a improperly positioned pick-up or a non- baffled oil pan without a windage screen or less than 5 qts of oil in the system, not a problem of all available oil being pumped into the lifter gallery and valve covers like some people would like you to think.
the MELLING COMPANY HAS THIS TO SAY
Most of the stock automobile engines are designed to operate from idle to 4500 RPM. The original volume and pressure oil pump will work fine in this type of application. As the demands on the engine increase so does the demands on the oiling system and pump.
The oil pump's most difficult task is to supply oil to the connecting rod bearing that is the farthest from the pump. To reach this bearing, the oil travels from three to four feet, turns numerous square corners thru small holes in the crankshaft to the rod bearing. The rod bearing doesn't help matters. It is traveling in a circle which means centrifugal force is pulling the oil out of the bearing.
A 350 Chevy has a 3.4811 stroke and a 2.111 rod journal. The outer edge of the journal travels 17.5311 every revolution. At 1000 RPM, the outer edge is traveling at 16.6 MPH and 74.7 MPH at 4500 RPM. If we take this engine to 6500 the outer edge is up to 107.9 and at 8500 it is 141.1 MPH. Now imagine driving a car around a curve at those speeds and you can feel the centrifugal force. Now imagine doing it around a circle with a 5.581, diameter.
The size of the gears or rotors determines the amount of oil a pump can move at any given RPM. Resistance to this movement creates the pressure. If a pump is not large enough to meet the demands of the engine, there will not be any pressure. Or if the demands of the engine are increased beyond the pumps capabilities there will be a loss of oil pressure. This is where high volume pumps come in; they take care of any increased demands of the engine.
Increases in the engine's oil requirements come from higher RPM, being able to rev faster, increased bearing clearances, remote oil cooler and/or filter and any combination of these. Most high volume pumps also have a increase in pressure to help get the oil out to the bearings faster.
That is what a high volume pump will do. Now let Is consider what it will not do.
It will not replace a rebuild in a worn-out engine. It may increase pressure but the engine is still worn-out.
It will not pump the oil pan dry. Both solid and hydraulic lifters have metering valves to limit flow of the oil to the top of the engine. If a pan is pumped dry, it is because the holes that drain oil back to the pan are plugged. If the high volume pump is also higher pressure, there will be a slight increase in flow to the top.
It will not wear out distributor gears. The load on the gear is directly related to the resistance to flow. Oil pressure is the measure of resistance to flow. The Ford 427 FE "side oiler" used a pump with relief valve set at 125 psi and it used a standard distributor gear. Distributor gear failures are usually caused by a worn gear on a new cam gear and/or worn bearings allowing misalignment.
It will not cause foaming of the oil. With any oil pump, the excess oil not needed by the engine is recirculated within the pump. Any additional foaming is usually created by revving the engine higher. The oil thrown from the rod bearings is going faster and causes the foaming. This is why high performance engines use a windage tray.
It will not cause spark scatter. Because of the pump pressure there is a load on the distributor gear. The number of teeth on the oil pump gears determine the number of impulses per revolution of the pump. In a SB Chevy there are seven teeth on each gear giving 14 impulses per revolution. At 6000 RPM the oil pump is turning 3000 RPM or 50 revolutions per second. To have an effect on the distributor, these impulses would have to vibrate the distributor gear through an intermediate shaft that has loose connections at both ends. Spark scatter is usually caused by weak springs in the points or dust inside the distributor cap.
High volume pumps can be a big advantage if used where needed. If installed in an engine that does not need the additional volume, they will not create a problem. The additional flow will be recirculated within the pump.
http://www.melling.com/highvol.html
http://www.melling.com/engoil.html
ok lets look at a few things, pressure is the result of a resistance to flow , no matter how much oil is put out by the oil pump there is almost no pressure unless there is a resistance to that oil flow and the main resistance is from oil trying to flow through the bearing surface clearances and once the pumps output pressure exceeds the engines ability to accept the oilflow at the max pressure the oil return system/bypass spring allows the oil circles back through the pump ,now the amount of oil flow necessary to reach the furthest parts in the engine from the oil pump does not go up in direct relation to rpm, but it instead increases with rpm at a steadly increaseing rate that increases faster than the engine rpm due to centrifugal force draining the oil from the rods as they swing faster and faster since energy increases with the square of the velocity the rate of oil use goes up quite a bit faster due to the greatly increased (G-FORCES) pulling oil from the rod bearings over 5000rpm going to 8000rpm than the rate of oil flow increases from 2000 rpm to 5000rpm (the same 3000rpm spread) and remember the often stated (10 lbs per 1000rpm)needs to be measured at the furthest rod and main bearing from the pump not at the pump itself, next lets look at the oil flow itself, you have about 5-6 quarts in an average small block now the valve covers never get and hold more than about 1/3 to 2/3 of a quart each even at 8000 rpm (high speed photography by SMOKEY YUNICK doing stock car engine research with clear plastic valve covers prove that from what Ive read) theres about 1 quart in the lifter gallery at max and theres about 1 quart in the filter and in the oil passages in the block, that leaves at least 2 quarts in the pan at all times and for those that want to tell me about oil wrapped around the crankshaft at high rpms try squirting oil on a spinning surface doing even 2000rpm (yes thats right its thrown off as fast as it hits by centrifugal force, yes its possiable for the crankshaft WITHOUT A WINDAGE SCREEN to keep acting like a propeler and pulling oil around with it in the crank case but thats what the wrap around style milodon type windage screen is designed to stop)the only way to run out of oil is to start with less than 4 quarts or to plug the oil return passages in the lifter gallery with sludge or gasket material! now add a good windage tray and a crank scrapper and almost all the oil is returned to the sump as it enters the area of the spinning crankshaft! forming a more or less endless supply to the oil pump, BTW almost all pro teams now use DRY SUMP SYSTEMS WITH POSITIVE DISPLACEMENT GERATOR PUMPS that are 3,4,or 5 stage pumps each section of which has more voluum than a standard voluum oil pump because its been found total oil control is necessary at high rpms to keep bearings cool and lubed
NOW I POSTED THIS BEFORE BUT IT NEEDs REPEATING
ok look at it this way,what your trying to do here is keep an pressureized oil film on the surface of all the bearings to lube and cool them and have enough oil spraying from the rod and main bearing clearances to lube the cam and cylinder walls/rings. now a standard pump does a good job up to 5000rpm and 400 hp but above 6000rpm and 400hp the bearings are under more stress and need more oilflow to cool and because the pressure on the bearings is greater you need higher pressures to maintain that oilfilm.lets look at the flow verus pressure curve. since oil is a liquid its non-compressable and flow will increase with rpm up to the point where the bypass circuit starts to re-route the excess flow at the point were the pressure exceeds the bypass spring pressure. but the voluum will be equal to the pumps sweep voluum times the rpm of the pump, since the high voluum pump has a sweep voluum 1.3-1.5 times the standard pump voluum it will push 1.3-1.5 times the voluum of oil up to the bypass cicuit cut in point,that means that since the engine bearings leakage rate increases faster as the rpms increase because the clearances don,t change but the bleed off rate does that the amount of oil and the pressure that it is under will increase faster and reach the bypass circuit pressure faster with the high voluum pump. the advantage here is that the metal parts MUST be floated on that oil film to keep the metal parts from touching/wearing and the more leakage points the oil flows by the less the voluum of oil thats available for each leakage point beyond it and as the oil heats up it becomes easier to push through the clearences.now as the rpms and cylinder preasures increase in your goal to add power the loads trying to squeeze that oil out of those clearances also increase. ALL mods that increase power either increase rpms,cylinder preasures or reduce friction or mechanical losses. there are many oil leakage points(100) in a standard chevy engine.
16 lifter to push rod points
16 pushrod to rocker arm points
32 lifter bores 16 x 2 ends
10 main bearing edges
9 cam bearing edges
16 rod bearing edges
2 distributor shaft leaks
1 distributor shaft to shim above the cam gear(some engines that have an oil pressure feed distributor shaft bearing.)
so the more oil volume the better as long as that oil flow is totally under control, and that will in most engines require both a baffled oil pan and a windage screen correctly installed in a block with clear oil drain back holes if the engine is going to be run a high rpm levels, changes in the oil pump pick-up location in the oil pan of only about 1/8" are sufficient to noticably effect the efficientcy of the pumps abillity to effectively control/supply oil
BTW,YOU CONTROL the volume of oil flowing thru your engine to a great extent when you set up the ENGINEs BEARING CLEARANCES, and you CONTROL the rate of oil flow back to the sump by checking that all the drain back holes are clear and by useing a milodon style windage screen properly mounted about 1/8" from the spinning crank assembly, the oil pump pick-up mounted about 3/8"-1/2" off the floor of the oil pan and by useing a properly designed oil pan with matching oil pump pick-up. the greater the voluum of oil flowing over the bearings the more heat can be carried away and the more constant the surface temp. can be. and before someone jumps in with that old myth that oil flowing over the surfaces to fast will fail to pick up the heat from the bearings let me point out this chart
bearing clearances larger than about 1.5-2 thousands tend to flow more oil than necessary, making the oil flow back to the sump harder to control
Ken
Gone but not forgotten
Thanks Grump! 
Jacob
Well-known member
100 degrees Celcius.
B
Bill94lt1
Guest
I won't get on it at all, until the oil temp guage registers about 195.
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