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Black Ice
Guest
He said look for 450 HP OUT OF THE BOX!!! non Z06TYPE and he said it WILL now be a 2004 again Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!
danl72
Well-known member
That would be great. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Black Ice
Guest
Larger displacement
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Ling_650vette
Guest
One rumor i've heard was that the C6 may recieve a DOHC 5.7L type motor. Still will have 346 CI like the LS1, but will have 450hp. Also, i heard another rumor of there being a possible SB 7.0 type motor being developed for the C6. How knows, thats the good/bad thing about rumors, gets you all built up, then they dont build the focker *cough* Silverado SS *cough*
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lytemup
Guest
funny
all these rumors are just kinda funny to me
Black Ice: where in northern Ill do you talk to all these execs and engineers? :confused
all these rumors are just kinda funny to me
Black Ice: where in northern Ill do you talk to all these execs and engineers? :confused
Duntov7
Active member
My, my....I sure hope that the 2004 launch and 450 HP are accurate. I've had a C6 'ordered' for some time.
motorman
Well-known member
StillDreaming
Well-known member
Can't wait to see pics........... and I hope that 450HP is true.... hope it looks good too............ keep the information coming...........
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- #10
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Stan A
Guest
Interesting Over Looked Facts
We are all hearing many different stories about what is in store with regards to the C6. It is important that we all look at the outside things that will effect this car.
First, EPA and CAFE requirements for that that year model may push GM to move in the direction of smaller engine sizes and less horsepower. Suggest that everyone read the thread I posted in the OFF ROAD LOUNGE- other cars entitled "Horsepower Wars- Is 500hp a enough" by Rob. This will give everyone a better view of what is about to take place with what I have mentioned here.
Being a past board member of the Georgia EPA "clean air" group has given me a better understanding of what we all may face in the coming years. Government intervention is going to be massive. More controls on car and truck manufacturing is coming our way.
As to the claim of more horsepower in the C6, I honestly believe that we will see less than we currently have on tap now. Also GM plans with regards to marketing the Corvette has been done on a set pattern. Look to the C5 years. First came the coupe. Followed by the convertible with the Z06 coming in three years after the first C5 rolled off the assembly line.
I believe that we will see a repeat of this with the C6. However, I believe that we will a lighter vehicle with a smaller motor and as someone has mentioned here on the CAC before with a multi-cam (4 values per Cylinders) with higher power bands ( 6200rpm to 6500rpm ). The noise we are hearing from inside GM is that we will see a motor with a hp under the current level.
I honestly believe that we will not see a Z0? in 2005 production. What we all must remember is that what we would like to see is not necessary the way GM will go. They have to satisfy the "bean counters" and meet all government rules and requirements. Profit comes before customer wants!
I also believe that the values of the Z06s will stablize quickly and stand firm based on past marketing plans like the one used with the C5 program.
450hp sounds great but I am afraid that we will all have to wait until 2006 or 2007 to find out. Probably by that time we will be seeing a Z0? that is considerable lighter (maybe 2600lbs to 2800lbs) and a motor that will hit the market under or around 400 ponies. A better way to get the performance and meet all the CAFE and EPA requirements without bigger motors or high horsepower.
Like someone before me said, "..time will tell!"
We are all hearing many different stories about what is in store with regards to the C6. It is important that we all look at the outside things that will effect this car.
First, EPA and CAFE requirements for that that year model may push GM to move in the direction of smaller engine sizes and less horsepower. Suggest that everyone read the thread I posted in the OFF ROAD LOUNGE- other cars entitled "Horsepower Wars- Is 500hp a enough" by Rob. This will give everyone a better view of what is about to take place with what I have mentioned here.
Being a past board member of the Georgia EPA "clean air" group has given me a better understanding of what we all may face in the coming years. Government intervention is going to be massive. More controls on car and truck manufacturing is coming our way.
As to the claim of more horsepower in the C6, I honestly believe that we will see less than we currently have on tap now. Also GM plans with regards to marketing the Corvette has been done on a set pattern. Look to the C5 years. First came the coupe. Followed by the convertible with the Z06 coming in three years after the first C5 rolled off the assembly line.
I believe that we will see a repeat of this with the C6. However, I believe that we will a lighter vehicle with a smaller motor and as someone has mentioned here on the CAC before with a multi-cam (4 values per Cylinders) with higher power bands ( 6200rpm to 6500rpm ). The noise we are hearing from inside GM is that we will see a motor with a hp under the current level.
I honestly believe that we will not see a Z0? in 2005 production. What we all must remember is that what we would like to see is not necessary the way GM will go. They have to satisfy the "bean counters" and meet all government rules and requirements. Profit comes before customer wants!
I also believe that the values of the Z06s will stablize quickly and stand firm based on past marketing plans like the one used with the C5 program.
450hp sounds great but I am afraid that we will all have to wait until 2006 or 2007 to find out. Probably by that time we will be seeing a Z0? that is considerable lighter (maybe 2600lbs to 2800lbs) and a motor that will hit the market under or around 400 ponies. A better way to get the performance and meet all the CAFE and EPA requirements without bigger motors or high horsepower.
Like someone before me said, "..time will tell!"
Stan,
Are they going to first crack down on the big cities in terms of emissions? Isn't LA the most notorious for their car pollution?
How do regulations affect cars such as the Ferrari, Viper, Lamborghini? Cars that are not mass produced...
Are they going to first crack down on the big cities in terms of emissions? Isn't LA the most notorious for their car pollution?
How do regulations affect cars such as the Ferrari, Viper, Lamborghini? Cars that are not mass produced...
- Thread starter
- #12
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Stan A
Guest
EPA Direction
"Are they going to first crack down on the big cities in terms of emissions? Isn't LA the most notorious for their car pollution?"
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Actually, LA is just one of several cities that has a on-going pollution issue. In the last five to six years the automobile has contributed less to air pollution. Most large cities are still receiving a major portion of contaminates via the truck and bus industry and human activities (mechanical equipment). Also airports that are close to these cities are adding to the problem. These industries mentioned are harder to control with regards to clean air enforcements because of the many national associations. Simply put, it is easier to get the individual car/truck/SUV owners to conform than it is an entire industry. Car still contribute but on a smaller scale.
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"How do regulations affect cars such as the Ferrari, Viper, Lamborghini? Cars that are not mass produced..."
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The cars you mention all have very low production and distribution numbers here in North America. The Viper puts out around 1300 units a year, Lamborghini has had a history of delivering just under 300 cars a year to the US. Also cars like the NSX produce less than 1000 cars a year. I don't have a current tally on Ferraris but you will note there output here in the US is very low compared to Porsche model line. In the scheme of things with regards to the CAFE fuel mileage requirements, a entire production line of cars is averaged out and this number must meet or be above the set "miles per gas" number set by the feds. A few thousand cars in numbers does not really effect this average in most cases (most car lines produce more than 1,000,000 units a year). However, in the case of the Corvette where the production number is over 20,000 units plus, this does effect the over all average when compared to a model of a thousand or less. This is why I believe that the Vette will see a smaller motor in the future at some point. Porsche really has no problem meeting the requirements as they produce all their power via six cylinders with high side RPMs. Currently they can match the new guidelines coming up thru 2007.
Large displacement engines will become a thing of the past unless the manufacturers are welling to spend big bucks developing cleaner and more efficient operating units.
We all hate to that our performance cars are a "dying breed" but with government intervention, I believe that there is little chance that in the long run they will survive. New members that are getting chopped are the Camaros and Trans Ams.
That is why I have always said we need to hold on to our ZR1s, Z06s, 60's & 70's muscle cars, Callaways, Lingenfelter,and all the others. This way our grandchildren will have the opportunity to see what real cars were like!!!
Hope this helps.....................
"Are they going to first crack down on the big cities in terms of emissions? Isn't LA the most notorious for their car pollution?"
-----------------------------------------------
Actually, LA is just one of several cities that has a on-going pollution issue. In the last five to six years the automobile has contributed less to air pollution. Most large cities are still receiving a major portion of contaminates via the truck and bus industry and human activities (mechanical equipment). Also airports that are close to these cities are adding to the problem. These industries mentioned are harder to control with regards to clean air enforcements because of the many national associations. Simply put, it is easier to get the individual car/truck/SUV owners to conform than it is an entire industry. Car still contribute but on a smaller scale.
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
"How do regulations affect cars such as the Ferrari, Viper, Lamborghini? Cars that are not mass produced..."
------------------------------------------------
The cars you mention all have very low production and distribution numbers here in North America. The Viper puts out around 1300 units a year, Lamborghini has had a history of delivering just under 300 cars a year to the US. Also cars like the NSX produce less than 1000 cars a year. I don't have a current tally on Ferraris but you will note there output here in the US is very low compared to Porsche model line. In the scheme of things with regards to the CAFE fuel mileage requirements, a entire production line of cars is averaged out and this number must meet or be above the set "miles per gas" number set by the feds. A few thousand cars in numbers does not really effect this average in most cases (most car lines produce more than 1,000,000 units a year). However, in the case of the Corvette where the production number is over 20,000 units plus, this does effect the over all average when compared to a model of a thousand or less. This is why I believe that the Vette will see a smaller motor in the future at some point. Porsche really has no problem meeting the requirements as they produce all their power via six cylinders with high side RPMs. Currently they can match the new guidelines coming up thru 2007.
Large displacement engines will become a thing of the past unless the manufacturers are welling to spend big bucks developing cleaner and more efficient operating units.
We all hate to that our performance cars are a "dying breed" but with government intervention, I believe that there is little chance that in the long run they will survive. New members that are getting chopped are the Camaros and Trans Ams.
That is why I have always said we need to hold on to our ZR1s, Z06s, 60's & 70's muscle cars, Callaways, Lingenfelter,and all the others. This way our grandchildren will have the opportunity to see what real cars were like!!!
Hope this helps.....................
Stan,
With that being said that cars in the not so distant future will be held to much stricter emissions standards, how will those new standards affect the cars we're driving today? What about today's Z06's, ZR1's, C4's, C3's?
Surely, they can't expect some of the earlier C4's and C3's to abide by those standards that they'll set can they? I mean, the emission control technology in those cars is years old and they would have to be more lenient towards older cars right?
I'm not thinking about the "AV" plate vehicles because C4's and C3's are still being driven around as daily drivers as opposed to show cars and weekend drivers.
With that being said that cars in the not so distant future will be held to much stricter emissions standards, how will those new standards affect the cars we're driving today? What about today's Z06's, ZR1's, C4's, C3's?
Surely, they can't expect some of the earlier C4's and C3's to abide by those standards that they'll set can they? I mean, the emission control technology in those cars is years old and they would have to be more lenient towards older cars right?
I'm not thinking about the "AV" plate vehicles because C4's and C3's are still being driven around as daily drivers as opposed to show cars and weekend drivers.
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- #14
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Stan A
Guest
Hi Ed,
Everything is "GRANDFATHERED IN" at the current level. Only new vehicles will be subject to meet new guidelines.
Thank Goodness.............................
Everything is "GRANDFATHERED IN" at the current level. Only new vehicles will be subject to meet new guidelines.
Thank Goodness.............................
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- #15
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lytemup
Guest
Stan-
even at 50,000 units, the vette is only something like 1% of GMs north american production. higher hp does not equate to higher emissions or even lower MPG. if the new vette came out with less power than the current, and no increase in performance measurements, it would be a horrible thing for chevy.
while shaving 500lbs off the vette would certainly be a spectacular thing, from an engineering prospective it is not as feasible as increasing power *and* lowering emissions. the press likes to talk about how cars today are heavier than in the 70s etc due to all the "gadgets", while it is most often overlooked that govt regulation on crashworthyness has led to a fleet of fairly similar looking/weighing sedans across all OEMs. let's remember that the C4 could not have been sold in 1997 (even if the C5 was delayed another year) due to side impact safety standards.
it makes me sick that the govt is forcing the OEMs to spend time and money to meet increasingly rediculus NOx requirements instead of pushing research for promising technologies with basically zero emissions (i.e. fuel cells).
well i could keep typing for an hour but i will leave it at this.
even at 50,000 units, the vette is only something like 1% of GMs north american production. higher hp does not equate to higher emissions or even lower MPG. if the new vette came out with less power than the current, and no increase in performance measurements, it would be a horrible thing for chevy.
while shaving 500lbs off the vette would certainly be a spectacular thing, from an engineering prospective it is not as feasible as increasing power *and* lowering emissions. the press likes to talk about how cars today are heavier than in the 70s etc due to all the "gadgets", while it is most often overlooked that govt regulation on crashworthyness has led to a fleet of fairly similar looking/weighing sedans across all OEMs. let's remember that the C4 could not have been sold in 1997 (even if the C5 was delayed another year) due to side impact safety standards.
it makes me sick that the govt is forcing the OEMs to spend time and money to meet increasingly rediculus NOx requirements instead of pushing research for promising technologies with basically zero emissions (i.e. fuel cells).
well i could keep typing for an hour but i will leave it at this.
- Thread starter
- #16
Z
ZR100060
Guest
Stan,
Thanks for a great discussion. It is truly unfortunate the air resourses people have the power they do. Common sense plays little or no part in their decisions. Stationary power producers have been a MAJOR contributor to our air problems for many years, yet these violators are largely ignored, and the same applies to the trucking and mass transit agencies thoughout this country. Yet there is talk of severe controls on lawnmowers.
Thanks for a great discussion. It is truly unfortunate the air resourses people have the power they do. Common sense plays little or no part in their decisions. Stationary power producers have been a MAJOR contributor to our air problems for many years, yet these violators are largely ignored, and the same applies to the trucking and mass transit agencies thoughout this country. Yet there is talk of severe controls on lawnmowers.
lytemup said:
I perfectly see your point of view about the C4 not being able to sell in 1997. I honestly believe that my C4 isn't a very "crash worthy" car. It doesn't have air bags and the seat belts don't work. It's basically a huge piece of plastic with 4 wheels and one big motor. That could spell trouble for a less informed and more daring motorist.
Stan,
But the Corvette brand could also do what they did in the past ie. ZR1 and produce a more powerful, less produced Corvette right? Say when the C6 comes along and buyers are yearning for more power, they could manufacture a Corvette with higher performance in a quantity low enough to stay under CAFE's radar right? Is that a possiblity?
I was told in physics that about 75% of a cars fuel is burned off and transferred to heat while the remaining is what actually powers the car. But diesel engines are more proficient so would GM produce more diesel powered auto's?
But the Corvette brand could also do what they did in the past ie. ZR1 and produce a more powerful, less produced Corvette right? Say when the C6 comes along and buyers are yearning for more power, they could manufacture a Corvette with higher performance in a quantity low enough to stay under CAFE's radar right? Is that a possiblity?
I was told in physics that about 75% of a cars fuel is burned off and transferred to heat while the remaining is what actually powers the car. But diesel engines are more proficient so would GM produce more diesel powered auto's?
- Thread starter
- #19
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lytemup
Guest
BullWinkle-
i'm not sure what the % is, but the gasoline internal combustion engine is an inefficient machine.
as for diesel, the very reason nearly 50% of european cars are diesel is for MPG, or their efficeincy. so why doesn't gm, toyota, vw, anyone push lots of diesel in the good ol USA? turns out diesel, while been more effiencent from a useful work (MPG) standpoint, has HIGHER emmisions (especially NOx i believe). so companies with only so many emmision credits from uncle sam can't afford to sell too many high MPG diesel vehicles!
i'm not sure what the % is, but the gasoline internal combustion engine is an inefficient machine.
as for diesel, the very reason nearly 50% of european cars are diesel is for MPG, or their efficeincy. so why doesn't gm, toyota, vw, anyone push lots of diesel in the good ol USA? turns out diesel, while been more effiencent from a useful work (MPG) standpoint, has HIGHER emmisions (especially NOx i believe). so companies with only so many emmision credits from uncle sam can't afford to sell too many high MPG diesel vehicles!
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