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Quaker State with zinc added.

O

O Vette

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
182
Location
Upstate NY
Corvette
2004 Black Coupe, 1977 Yellow T-Top
I notice (perhaps many of you alread know) that Quaker State is selling a 10w30 oil with zinc added for the older cars. As I have read in a few places, this type of oil is good to use in C3's.
 
It is good for out cars....
It helps keeps the cams from premature wear...
 
Vettehead Mikey said:
Hib, I re-read your article and it does not answer my specific question or mention this new product at all.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that.

I posted about that article to offer it as a source on general information on ZDDP in engine oil, not as a product review of Quaker State.

Anyone worried about ZDDP content of an oil used in flat-tappet engine can just use either Shell Rotella T 10W30 or Chevron Delo 400LE 10W30. Both are available at WalMart and I think the Chevon can be had at Costco.

Both those products are the best choice for engine oil in oldler flat tappet engines. They have an outstanding additive package which has more than enough ZDDP for stock and aftermarket cams and the price is right!

When I need a petro-based oil for a flat tappet engine, I use one of those two.
 
I'd like to know which product this is as well!!! Along with the amount of zinc. I've got an LT-1 mechanical flat tappet motor, and my buddies 396 is also mechanical flat tappet.

The only two oils that can easily be found (e.g. at local autozone, O'Riley, Walmart. . .etc. . .etc), which is streetable (e.g. not racing oil), not a desiel oil, reasonably priced, and has enough ZDDP in it to be (as far as we can tell) safe for a broken-in (e.g. you have already followed the recommeded break-in procedure using break-in oil) engine is:

- Royal Purple 10w30(SL rated oil) = 1,200 PPM
- Mobile 1 HIGH MILAGE 10w30 (SL rated oil) = 1,100 PPM

Note: there is a Mobile 1 product that has 1,400ppm that can easily be gotten at the local store. . .but the weight is too high for me. I think it was the 15w40 oil . ..but I don't remember if it was regular 15w40 or High Milage 15w40. Mobile publishes their ZDDP levels on a pdf (via goolge search) which you can find if your really interested in that oil. I do remember the back label saying that it was fortified with ZINC for racing applications.

My buddy runs Royal Puple, and I run Mobile 1 High Milage. . .and neither of us have experienced any failures or wear in out drive / valve train in over 3 years of use. I Put about 6,000 miles on my car a year. . .and it's been absolutly fine.

I know there are lots of specialty oils with 1,300 or more ppm (edelbrock. . .etc. . .etc. . ) but they cannot be (in my opinion) easly obtained when in a hurry.

Any oil that can be easily obtained at the local autoparts retailer. . .is 10w30 and has more than 1,300 ppm. . .will have my business right away!!
 
I should add one more note.

I change my oil every 1000 miles. . .just to keep the good ZDDP levels up. I do not know if this oil will make it 3,000 miles without engine damage.
 
Bolisk said:
Any oil that can be easily obtained at the local autoparts retailer. . .is 10w30 and has more than 1,300 ppm. . .will have my business right away!!
Click to expand...

Rightly or wrongly, 1200ppm is usually stated as the acceptable threshold. If you'd like a readily available product with that much zinc, just about every store including Wally World carries Rotella which contrary to internet myth and misunderstanding is NOT exclusively a 'diesel oil'. It carries the SM certification which is applicable to spark engines. SM is suitable for non-roller engines as found in our Corvettes.

Fire when ready, my flame suit is on and zipped up tight. :D
 
Bolisk said:
I'd like to know which product this is as well!!! Along with the amount of zinc. I've got an LT-1 mechanical flat tappet motor, and my buddies 396 is also mechanical flat tappet.

The only two oils that can easily be found (e.g. at local autozone, O'Riley, Walmart. . .etc. . .etc), which is streetable (e.g. not racing oil), not a desiel oil, reasonably priced, and has enough ZDDP in it to be (as far as we can tell) safe for a broken-in (e.g. you have already followed the recommeded break-in procedure using break-in oil) engine is:

- Royal Purple 10w30(SL rated oil) = 1,200 PPM
- Mobile 1 HIGH MILAGE 10w30 (SL rated oil) = 1,100 PPM

Note: there is a Mobile 1 product that has 1,400ppm that can easily be gotten at the local store. . .but the weight is too high for me. I think it was the 15w40 oil . ..but I don't remember if it was regular 15w40 or High Milage 15w40. Mobile publishes their ZDDP levels on a pdf (via goolge search) which you can find if your really interested in that oil. I do remember the back label saying that it was fortified with ZINC for racing applications.

My buddy runs Royal Puple, and I run Mobile 1 High Milage. . .and neither of us have experienced any failures or wear in out drive / valve train in over 3 years of use. I Put about 6,000 miles on my car a year. . .and it's been absolutly fine.

I know there are lots of specialty oils with 1,300 or more ppm (edelbrock. . .etc. . .etc. . ) but they cannot be (in my opinion) easly obtained when in a hurry.

Any oil that can be easily obtained at the local autoparts retailer. . .is 10w30 and has more than 1,300 ppm. . .will have my business right away!!
Click to expand...

If you are asking about the Quaker State product, I saw it at Walmart. Don't remember the actual name but, the zinc additive information was clearly listed on the lable. I didn't read the back lable to see if it mentions the amount of zinc.
 
The vast majority of engines with flat tappet cams and overhead valves need enough ZDDP to have the phosphorous content at 800-1000 ppm and that includes stock engines with the most aggressive OE cams and some mild aftermarket performance cams. Engines with typical aftermarket "racing" cams and spring pressures might need 1200 ppm. The only engines which need more will be very unusual racing engines using very aggressive flat tappet cams and very high valve spring pressures. They might need 1400 ppm phos. With ZDDP, more is not best. Once there is enough phosphorous to prevent cam lobe wear more ZDDP will not extend durability. Once you go past 1700 ppm phosphorous, you risk chemical-driven wear of engine parts.

All engine oils of viscosity ratings of 10W30 or less which are rated API SL or less or are rated GF3 or less have a max of 1000 ppm phos and are good to use for any OE flat tappet cam.

Engine oils above 10W30 are exempt from max phosphorous limits.

In many cases the least expensive "high phosphorous" (1000-1200 ppm) engine oils are 15W40s or 10W30s intended for light truck diesels. Contrary to many persons' misconceptions, diesel engine oils make a lot of sense for high-performance street engines. They have more robust anti-corrosive additive packages. They are designed to lubricate engines subjected to severe duty cycles. They have higher levels of EP additives (ZDDP is an "EP additive") than do most gasoline engine oils. When I put petroleum-based engine oil in a high-performance engine I use either Chevron Delo 400LE 10W30 or Shell Rotella-T 10W30.

The idea that you must change your oil every 1000 miles is misguided, wasteful and harmful to the environment. The level of ZDDP remains consistent, regardless of the oil in question, for far longer than that.

Be careful of pour-in additives containing ZDDP. They exist to extract money from people not for any useful purpose which is not already addressed by existing engine oils. For one thing using them to spike GF4 oil with a higher ZDP content is expensive. Additionally, mixing the proper proportion of these additives is tricky. An oil modified to 2000 ppm phosphorous with an additive can damage your engine just like one with 600 ppm.
 
Vettehead Mikey said:
More than what?
Click to expand...

Quaker State Quote...
The use of ZDDP in motor oil has seen a gradual decline since 2001 in order to minimize or eliminate clogging of oxygen sensors and catalytic converters in modern cars due to volatile phosphorus. Prior to 2001, the typical concentration was roughly 1300 to 1400 parts per million (ppm) of ZDDP. However, since 2001, modern passenger cars have required oils with lower viscosity to reduce power loss and increase gas mileage, but achieving these lower viscosities with higher concentrations of ZDDP is difficult.
The proprietary low¿volatility ZDDP technology used in Quaker State Defy motor oil significantly reduces the amount of volatile phosphorus, while retaining its anti¿wear protective behaviour and antioxidant performance. Quaker State Defy has a ZDDP composition of 1200ppm, a more than sufficient amount to stand up to the most aggressive engine profiles.

Quaker State Responds To Plight of Enthusiasts With High-Zinc Motor Oil | SSGM Magazine
 
Vettehead Mikey said:
Rightly or wrongly, 1200ppm is usually stated as the acceptable threshold. If you'd like a readily available product with that much zinc, just about every store including Wally World carries Rotella which contrary to internet myth and misunderstanding is NOT exclusively a 'diesel oil'. It carries the SM certification which is applicable to spark engines. SM is suitable for non-roller engines as found in our Corvettes.

Fire when ready, my flame suit is on and zipped up tight. :D
Click to expand...

Ok my information may be out of date now. . .but this was the information I got from Shell directly in 2006. I used to use Rotella until Jan 1st 2006 when they changed the formual and packaging and rating from CI-4/SJ to CJ-4/SM.

Luckily I noticed the rating change and I quickly called Shell and they told me that only oils with an SL or older rateing can have over 1000 ppm of ZDDP. So they told me to stick to SL or older (in other words SL, SJ, SH, SG, SF, SE, SD, SB, or SA). . .but there is no guarentee that the oil will have the levels of ZDDP that I would need and they recommeded that I always check published docuementation.

I have not been able to find updated docuementation that says that their SM or later compliant oils have more thatn 900ppm zddp.

I may be wrong. . .but that was the last information that I had.
 
Hib Halverson said:
The vast majority of engines with flat tappet cams and overhead valves need enough ZDDP to have the phosphorous content at 800-1000 ppm and that includes stock engines with the most aggressive OE cams and some mild aftermarket performance cams. Engines with typical aftermarket "racing" cams and spring pressures might need 1200 ppm. The only engines which need more will be very unusual racing engines using very aggressive flat tappet cams and very high valve spring pressures. They might need 1400 ppm phos. With ZDDP, more is not best. Once there is enough phosphorous to prevent cam lobe wear more ZDDP will not extend durability. Once you go past 1700 ppm phosphorous, you risk chemical-driven wear of engine parts.

All engine oils of viscosity ratings of 10W30 or less which are rated API SL or less or are rated GF3 or less have a max of 1000 ppm phos and are good to use for any OE flat tappet cam.

Engine oils above 10W30 are exempt from max phosphorous limits.

In many cases the least expensive "high phosphorous" (1000-1200 ppm) engine oils are 15W40s or 10W30s intended for light truck diesels. Contrary to many persons' misconceptions, diesel engine oils make a lot of sense for high-performance street engines. They have more robust anti-corrosive additive packages. They are designed to lubricate engines subjected to severe duty cycles. They have higher levels of EP additives (ZDDP is an "EP additive") than do most gasoline engine oils. When I put petroleum-based engine oil in a high-performance engine I use either Chevron Delo 400LE 10W30 or Shell Rotella-T 10W30.

The idea that you must change your oil every 1000 miles is misguided, wasteful and harmful to the environment. The level of ZDDP remains consistent, regardless of the oil in question, for far longer than that.

Be careful of pour-in additives containing ZDDP. They exist to extract money from people not for any useful purpose which is not already addressed by existing engine oils. For one thing using them to spike GF4 oil with a higher ZDP content is expensive. Additionally, mixing the proper proportion of these additives is tricky. An oil modified to 2000 ppm phosphorous with an additive can damage your engine just like one with 600 ppm.
Click to expand...

Thank you. . .that confirms my understanding. . .SL or older. . .

Also, please note that I was not suggesting that anyone change their oil every 1000 miles. I did that because I was told. . .I thought though your paper. . .but maybe it was somewhere else that the ZDDP in the oil actually wears down over the life of the oil as it's a sacrifical additive that gets used up. . .and that levels will actually decrease over usage. If that is incorrect. . .I am more than happy to keep my oil going for a longer period.

Also note, that I was told by Shell (and I may have talked to a moron) that the Shell Tripple protection does NOT have more than 900ppm of ZDDP in it and that it's an SM oil (e.g. newer than SL). Having said that. . .your above stament suggests that 900ppm is also enough. So maybe I was mis led.
 
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