Question on AC

[BarryK]

I need to recharge the AC system on the car I've been working on. When I put everythjing back together I changed out all the O Rings and i'll get the system vacuum checked but I need to figure out what to do about the freon.

I found one place around me that says they still have the original R12 but of course they want a fortune for the stuff. They quoted me over the phone about $350 to recharge the system.

I'm really trying to avoid having to convert the system over to R134 if there is any way at all possible to not have to do that so i'm not looking for "convert your system over" suggestions.

A friend suggested other stuff that I think is called "Freeze 12" ( maybe referred to as R12A?)
It's supposed to be able to be used as a direct substitute to R12 without needed to convert the system and it's a LOT less expensive than finding original R12. It's suppose to blow 1* or 2* warmer than R12 but still blow colder than if I converted to R134.
My biggest concern on it though is that I THINK (could be wrong) is that it's propane based and I've heard I should avoid any type of propane based fill for the system.
Anyone have any experience with this stuff good or bad?

anyone have any original R12 they have been hoarding but are willing to sell me 3 or 4 pounds at a reasonable price?


PS: 67Heaven, I know, i know..... before you move this thread we both know what car I'm referring to BUT I figure it's a general question that can pertain to anyone with a C2 with factory air also and this may help them too.

 

[gmjunkie]

Barry Freeze 12 is not Propane!! Freeze 12 is approx 10% R 12 and 90% R 134 that has been Homogenized,like milk to beat the molecules together!! You should use Easter oil in system, and if someone has put mineral oil in system it should be Flushed!! I would flush it any way!! Vacuum down at least a Hour, 2 would be better!! Oh yea put a Ford Blue orfice tube or a Smart tube in it!! I like the smart tube,it has a variable orfice in it and works much better in slow moving and stoped traffic!!

 

[BarryK]

Junk

the Easter Oil, Mineral Oil, orifice tubes, etc is all beyond my understanding.
I guess I'll let the AC shop worry about all that.
Have you used the Freeze 12? Have you found it's good to use. If it is I won't have to convert my system to R134.

 

[Tampa Jerry]

R12

Barry: I just purchased some R12 from a member of the other CF. I paid $25 a can. I bought the last he had. Do a search of R12 and you will find a company that still has a supply and sells it for $20 per can. The catch is that you must be licensed to purchase it. Find someone with a license and purchase it through them. Before you do anything, make sure your system has no problems, is clean and holds vacuum. I had my AC guy do this for me on my 68. So far so good. Even though my 66 is set up for 134a, I may use R12 because it is more efficient. Jerry

 

[gmjunkie]

Junk

the Easter Oil, Mineral Oil, orifice tubes, etc is all beyond my understanding.
I guess I'll let the AC shop worry about all that.
Have you used the Freeze 12? Have you found it's good to use. If it is I won't have to convert my system to R134.

I use it all the Time!! The orfice tube is in the Lower Evaporator line at A/C under hood Take fitting off and pull it out of Evaporator and replace, Ford blue is about $5.00 or less, Smart tube is about $25.00 or less depending where you buy it!! The reason a retro system don't work properly is Most don't change the orfice tube to a Ford Blue it has a little larger orfice,and the smart tube has a variable orfice!!

Freeze 12 acts more like R-12 but is still mostly R-134 and has the characteristics of both!!PS you should ajust the Low pressure switch to a Lower setting no lower than 24lb psi Most R-12 systems is set at 28-29 lb kick off!!

 

[BarryK]

geez, i just can't get my mind to wrap around this AC stuff. The more people answer me the more confused i get.
This is nuts......
:confused

 

[gmjunkie]

geez, i just can't get my mind to wrap around this AC stuff. The more people answer me the more confused i get.
This is nuts......
:confused

Barry, A/C work is tricky!! Expressly a conversion!! R134 must be weighed in it has to be within a 2 oz. window,1 oz to much or 1 oz not enough the system won't work properly!! Freeze 12 should be weighed in to but it is more forgiving than R134. R 12 can be put in till it works right and it don't Care!! You use 10 % less Freeze 12 and R134 they expand more than R12!! I have a Conversion Table to figure out how much to use!!

 

[BarryK]

Junk
I'm not personally concerned about how much to use as i'll have everything done by an Auto AC shop, it's all the other stuff that confuses me - orifice tubes, different oils, one shop I called said that because the system was opened up I should replace the evaporator, or drier, or something or other because now it will have gotten dirty, etc.
None of this crap makes the slightest bit of sense to me.
All i want is to make it work and work well and properly but I hate taking it in to a shop and not knowing anything at all because than I'm concerned they are going to tell me I need to have all sorts of things done to it (read as expensive) that i don't really need.
i'm just really clueless.

at this point all I know is that I'd prefer not to convert to R134. i'd rather stick with R12 or if it works just about as well i'd accept the Freeze 12 to fill the system.
Everything else is just beyond my understanding right now. I'm just dumb when it comes to AC stuff I guess

 

[gmjunkie]

Well Barry I always Replace the Dryer if it has been open for a while!! Moisture will screw it up!! or if it has been a while sense it has been replaced!! Old ones sometimes will come apart inside and get desiccant in your Compressor and Orfice tube and not let the compressor lubricate!! The dryer is the Filter so to speak and removes moisture and contaminants!!

 

[BarryK]

Thanks Junk. I guess the shop was being straight with me there at least.
I guess I'll just have to take it over there and let them do whatever to it.
This shop still has a few pounds of R12 he will sell me but at a fortune and he still would rather convert the system to R134 which I'd prefer not to but he doesn't know anything about or do anything with the Freeze 12 so I guess i'm stuck with spending a lot to buy his last R12 or spend about the same and convert to R134.
Not sure which is the lessor evil

 

[gmjunkie]

Thanks Junk. I guess the shop was being straight with me there at least.
I guess I'll just have to take it over there and let them do whatever to it.
This shop still has a few pounds of R12 he will sell me but at a fortune and he still would rather convert the system to R134 which I'd prefer not to but he doesn't know anything about or do anything with the Freeze 12 so I guess i'm stuck with spending a lot to buy his last R12 or spend about the same and convert to R134.
Not sure which is the lessor evil

Barry ,someone that knows the right procedure can make R134 Freeze the testicles Off a Brass Monkey!!
My 78 has had noting done to A/C Except norm Maintenance!! And it is very Important to turn them on at least once a month even in winter!! I believe yours comes on with the defroster anyway,mine dose!!

 

[BarryK]

it might, I have no clue as of yet whether it does or doesn't but it probably does if your does - it's the same year car

 

[ZRGator]

Call Tony!!...he has the stuff to do it. He's gonna do my 67 a/c with the freon.

 

[I'mAVettehead]

R 12 & R 12 substitutes are all over E-Bay.

 

[BarryK]

well, I just got lucky last night. A forum member contacted me who has 5 pounds of R12 he no longer needs and is willing to sell it to be at $15/lb. That's a LOT better than the $75.00 this shop wanted to charge me for the last few pounds they had in stock at $75/lb!

So, now my plan is to get this R12 from him and than take the car to a auto AC shop, have them vacuum check the system, do whatever else they feel it needs to get the system ready and get it recharged.

 

[ChuckG]

Hi Barry. It's my understanding that R12 is no longer made in this country. Has to be imported, legally or illegally???, I don't know.

I do know that it is EXTREMELY expensive, because you can't get it easily anymore.

I also know that you or I can easily obtain a "license" to buy it. Several of my club members are "licensed". You supposedly read a pamphlet, take the test, and send it in.

Like you, I know nothing of AC. It's always been a mystery to me.

I'd get the AC working to get the car down the road. I'd do the minimum necessary. You don't want to get bogged down in hundreds and hundreds of dollars doing a complete AC restoration. You're selling this car, not restoring it to keep and cherish forever. Chuck

 

[Kid_Again]

R12 is illegally manufactured in India and transhipped through Mexico to this country. You may want to take this discussion offline.

If someone is going to buy R12, then at least contract with a licensee who knows the proper way to dispose of this stuff if there is a problem.

 

[BarryK]

Chuck

a few developments have come up that means we MAY (not sure yet) be able to keep the car and if so nothing would make me happier to be able to keep it as a toy for Linda - especially after putting all this time, effort and blood (literally) into the car.
In either case I want to AC to work properly and blow cold and not a an issue of problems so since I have to do it anyway i'm trying to do it the right way but just as much with a reasonable price as I can.

I know the R12 is not really available anymore unless you can find someone that has been sitting on the stuff hoarding it which I have seemed to have found.


Kid, I'm not trying to discuss illegally importing R12 from India or Mexico.
Originally the thread started with me asking about the newer R12A (Freeze 12).
Also, If I do manage to get original R12 I have absolutely NO plans on fooling with the system myself and i'm going to take the car to a regular, licensed, Auto AC shop to do all the work. If I can't get the original R12 than I'll still be taking the car to a regular , licensed Auto AC shop to get the system running even if i do end up having to convert to R134.
I have no desire whatsoever to fool around with the AC system personally - to me it's nothing more than a big, black mystery box that I have no understanding about and I know my limits well and know when it's better to pay the professionals to do their job

 

[IH2LOSE]

I have been trying to respond to this thread but I am on vacation and keep losing my connection

Barry I know you have made a decision already but I would recommend to anyone with a collector car they plan on keeping to upgrade it to R134A.

As time goes by it will be more difficult to get the R12. R143a will be around forever so it only makes sense to upgrade.

at the cost of R12 these days i would be afraid to put it in a system with out replacing all of the soft lines.

Good Luck with it

 

[BarryK]

Larry

The reason I've had it in my mind to try to avoid converting to R134 was I heard it doesn't work as well in a converted over system and it doesn't blow as cold.

Since you are the AC expert by profession, what is your overall opinion of the R134 performance in a system that was R12 and converted over compared to the performance of the actual R12 system temporarily disregarding the cost/availibility issues of the R12?

Thanks