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Renegade

Mac

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If someone that does not own a renegade and wants to test the performance improvements should buy one and test it instead of giving people that own them a hard time. But I guess the forum rules don't state anything about harassing a guy that owns a renegade equipped crossfire.

Yoda is on the money, as usual. I'm not giving anyone a hard time, let alone harassing anyone but I have a healthy skepticism about performance enhancing equipment, especially from a manufacturer who isn't interested in quantifying the effects of their product. As the old expression goes for buying something without knowing being sure what it is, be careful about buying a pig in a poke.

-Mac
 

nelson84

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The performance numbers were posted on the DCS wesite. I don't see what the problem is?
:w Nelson,It is nice to see you still defending the Renegade Intake, but I believe Hib's post above is directed to the designer and manufacturer of the Renegade Intake (Buccaneer).. And Mac was simply seconding what Hib asked of the ?? owner of the Renegade Company. None of what has been posted on this page pertains to current or past owners of the Renegade.. I don't see any inference or slight toward anyone that owns one or is awaiting the delivery of one..If I may… let’s say I was not pleased with my Quadrajet on 1981 and I wanted to change it out to a Holly or ????... Would it be in my best interest to research the possibly replacement carburetors? I would talk to others and look up specification and empirical information to compare the perspective replacement carburetor to my Quadrajet?This kind of reminds me of back in the ‘70s gas scare. Some aftermarket car companies were selling magnets to tape to gas lines in front the carburetor to improve gas mileage.. :dance I just googled gas magnets: Save Gas and INCREASE HP!!I’m Just Say’nBudEdit: I wanted to add that in York Nebraska they were selling "Cow Magnets as Gas Savers"
 

nelson84

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I read about this intake manifold on a few forums and they already had a welded up prototype that was tested on an 82 vette with good results on the dyne, increasing top end performance while keeping the low end torque. After reading that I ordered mine right away and I was the 6 th person to get a renegade and I am very happy with the performance on this intake manifold. When I installed the intake I upgraded to 2 inch throttle bodies, made the fuel pressure adjustable and set it at 15 psi and advanced the timing to 12. With these combined mods my crossfire walks away from my 85 TPI.
 

gmjunkie

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03 Z-51,78 L82 Coupe
I read about this intake manifold on a few forums and they already had a welded up prototype that was tested on an 82 vette with good results on the dyne, increasing top end performance while keeping the low end torque. After reading that I ordered mine right away and I was the 6 th person to get a renegade and I am very happy with the performance on this intake manifold. When I installed the intake I upgraded to 2 inch throttle bodies, made the fuel pressure adjustable and set it at 15 psi and advanced the timing to 12. With these combined mods my crossfire walks away from my 85 TPI.
Wow,With all that and $3.25 you should be able to get a decent cup of coffee at Starbucks!~!!:chuckle:chuckle:chuckle
 

ex-x-fire

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wi.
It would be worth the effort if DCS purchased a stock 84, tuned it up,tested it at the track & on the dyno. Then do the intake swap, & test it again. I guess it doesn't matter when you have a bunch orders of intakes.
Wasn't there a magazine that was gonna do a story on the Renegade?
 

Hib Halverson

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71 04 12 19
"Buccaneer" has not responded.
Anyone know what happened to him?
 

nelson84

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84 Z51 two tone bronze coupe 85 black on black
It would be worth the effort if DCS purchased a stock 84, tuned it up,tested it at the track & on the dyno. Then do the intake swap, & test it again. I guess it doesn't matter when you have a bunch orders of intakes.Wasn't there a magazine that was gonna do a story on the Renegade?
That would be the best way to test it, but there is already enough crossfire owners sporting wood over this intake that they don't need to provide anymore info or test results.I admit it I got a little excited when I found this intake online. I don't get it why DCS and the magazine have not run an article on this product. I would buy the magazine.
 

Hib Halverson

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(snip)
Wasn't there a magazine that was gonna do a story on the Renegade?

"nelson84" posted to another forum on this site, maybe a year or so ago, that "Super Chevy" magazine was going to publish a story.

How 'bout it "nelson84"? That article has to have been published by now. Can you post a copy of the article?
 

Buccaneer

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"nelson84" posted to another forum on this site, maybe a year or so ago, that "Super Chevy" magazine was going to publish a story.

How 'bout it "nelson84"? That article has to have been published by now. Can you post a copy of the article?

Oh I'm still around, just forgot about this thread since I don't come here much. Yes, I am one of the owners of DCS, but I thought you knew that from previous posts of mine, although it may not have been as obvious back then and i didn't want to appear that I was trying to sell stuff here, which I'm not nor my intent.

The article you speak of didn't pan out with Super Chevy magazine and they decided to drop the CFI Camaro project for now that we were going to help them with. The associate publisher, Joe Rode over at SC (I'm sure you know him) flew out to see us to check out what we were doing with CFI. When he saw what we doing along with the manifold project he was very impressed. According to Joe at that time "The new manifold was probably one of the most significant things to come out in the automotive CF world in a long time since nobody had ever done anything with the CF before". Actually, we kind of blew that comment off since the project was so new back then and we were having a lot of issues just trying to get the pattern made properly. The only thing we had made back then was a fully functional proto type that we had done extensive testing with on various CF motors. The Camaro project idea was his and came about after his visit with us. The story is true and feel free to contact Joe via email or phone and ask about it and us if you like.

As far as doing a comparison before and after goes. We have already done that with our own testing and know the results. We were going to do a comparison between a 84 with a ported manifold and ours on EFI/CFI's 84 vette, but things changed a bit in my life and my partners and it didn't happen which was rather disappointing form our end. EFI/CFI as also passed away recently, so it won't happen for sure now nor are we going to entertain anything like that in the near future. We have a ton of other things to get done before we get back to that type of thing and we are in no hurry.

We are in the process of having another foundry pour our castings and are trying to work out a deal that works for both parties, we'll see how that pans out and keep everyone posted about that on our site. We hope to get all this accomplished soon since we have other company deals in the works.

I hope this cover most areas that you are curious about and hopefully not too disappointing. Cheers!:beer
 

XLR8

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As far as doing a comparison before and after goes. We have already done that with our own testing and know the results.
So, is there some reason you won't share those results with the Corvette community that has been requesting them for so long?

I must say that your marketing strategy is one I'm unfamiliar with. Okay, I admit I was going to say bizarre but thought that may sound too harsh. :L

:wJane Ann
 

catbert

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Buccaneer, Truthfully, I really admire a grassroots effort like the one you are a part of. The hardware looks impressive, and the work it took to get where you are in the project must have been enormous. My hat is off to the developers. :upthumbs

That said, Any rational person would be skeptical about a product that claims to be effective, as proven by tests - and then won't share the tests. That's just the way it is, and you certainly must understand that. So - what's the logical conclusion?
 

nelson84

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84 Z51 two tone bronze coupe 85 black on black
Buccaneer, Truthfully, I really admire a grassroots effort like the one you are a part of. The hardware looks impressive, and the work it took to get where you are in the project must have been enormous. My hat is off to the developers. :upthumbsThat said, Any rational person would be skeptical about a product that claims to be effective, as proven by tests - and then won't share the tests. That's just the way it is, and you certainly must understand that. So - what's the logical conclusion?
The logical conclusion is the renegade works great and if you want to experience your head pinned to the head rest find a renegade equipped crossfire or buy one yourself they are well worth it
 

Hib Halverson

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"Buccaneer"....

I've never met Joe Rode, "Publisher" of Super Chevy. According to Source Interlink's web site, Joe Foos is Publisher of SC.

My work with that magazine predates Rode's or Foos' tenures as Publisher. I wrote for Super Chevy back when Terry Cole was Editor. Admittedly, that's a few years ago.

I've worked as an automotive writer for many years covering all kinds of products. The fact that DCS has test data but won't share it and has never done an A-B test on an 84 Corvette...an application which would probably represent an important part of the market...speaks volumes about the Renegade and it's ability to affect (or not, as the case might be) performance of LU5 305 and L83 350s with the 2xTBI induction system.

If DCS wanted to improve its marketing and PR, the first thing it out to do is convince "nelson84" to stop trying to be the Renegade's evangelist. The guy has no skills there and hurts the product's credibility more than he helps it.

Then, get back to basics....fix whatever foundry problems there are, then reintroduce the product, release some credible test data and encourage automotive media with a 3rd Gen F--car and 84 Vette audience to cover the product.

One question I had about the Renegade has to do with port volumes. There were guys at GM in the '79-'80 period who paid for new houses with the overtime it took to get that 69 Z/28 crossram-derived intake manifold to work at low speeds with good driveability. The biggest problem was port volumes.

What is it that DCS has done that allows the port volumes to be such that the RPM range is extended and more power is produced, yet good drivability, reasonable fuel economy are preserved?
 

LLC5

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The logical conclusion is the renegade works great and if you want to experience your head pinned to the head rest find a renegade equipped crossfire or buy one yourself they are well worth it


Anyone who reads your posts will come to the "logical conclusion" that they should run away and hide from it. You appear to be ready to buy anything that comes along, and praise it's glory with no factual, before and after data, to back up any performance gains that you state.


If you really want to help the Renegade (which I believe you actually do), then you may want to consider quit posting about it. ;)
 

Buccaneer

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"Buccaneer"....

I've never met Joe Rode, "Publisher" of Super Chevy. According to Source Interlink's web site, Joe Foos is Publisher of SC.

My work with that magazine predates Rode's or Foos' tenures as Publisher. I wrote for Super Chevy back when Terry Cole was Editor. Admittedly, that's a few years ago.

I've worked as an automotive writer for many years covering all kinds of products. The fact that DCS has test data but won't share it and has never done an A-B test on an 84 Corvette...an application which would probably represent an important part of the market...speaks volumes about the Renegade and it's ability to affect (or not, as the case might be) performance of LU5 305 and L83 350s with the 2xTBI induction system.

If DCS wanted to improve its marketing and PR, the first thing it out to do is convince "nelson84" to stop trying to be the Renegade's evangelist. The guy has no skills there and hurts the product's credibility more than he helps it.

Then, get back to basics....fix whatever foundry problems there are, then reintroduce the product, release some credible test data and encourage automotive media with a 3rd Gen F--car and 84 Vette audience to cover the product.

One question I had about the Renegade has to do with port volumes. There were guys at GM in the '79-'80 period who paid for new houses with the overtime it took to get that 69 Z/28 crossram-derived intake manifold to work at low speeds with good driveability. The biggest problem was port volumes.

What is it that DCS has done that allows the port volumes to be such that the RPM range is extended and more power is produced, yet good drivability, reasonable fuel economy are preserved?

Not to get into a pissing contest of any kind here, but I think you misunderstood me on Mr. Rodes title or maybe I have misunderstood your reply. I said "Associate" Publisher which is exactly what it says on his business card that I'm looking at at the moment. I thought maybe I read it wrong. I also understand that any work you may have done with them earlier was probably before Joe...no biggy. You can still check us out if you like with them. I personally haven't talked to Joe for almost a year now. None the less, the above story is true, maybe he moved on.

I know who you are and what you do for some time now, but that still doesn't matter to me or my partner in relation to our product. We have no intention on doing any reviews at this time. We'll let you know if that changes in the future. I have read at various times like mentioned above about our marketing strategy or lack of it and how bizarre it is in doing business. Well, our current method or lack of it seems to work for us and has been working for us for some time now, why mess with perfection if it's working? We can't even handle what we are doing, hence the reason we turned off the purchase buttons on some items. So, something must be working...right?

Since some seem to want data of some sort from us which has been posted in the past, here's a range to work with. Gains of 30-38RWHP are typical with 15-20lbs torq. on a stock motor in various degrees of repair. Every motor is different and will respond differently. I plan on and won't debate this post any further, it is what it is and that's it. Have a nice day all.:beer


One last note...We have asked several people on various forums whoever they are to please STOP being our spokesperson to no avail. I can assure you there is NOBODY other than myself and my partner who speak for us on an officiate level. Thanks
 

catbert

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Well, there it is. Buccaneer has that rare talent of being able to tell critics to pound sand in a most courteous and agreeable way. That's a talent I was NEVER able to develop. I tip my hat for his cool demeanor.

That should end the debate. His business plan is his own, and it's working, according to Buccaneer. Folks must be lining up to buy the Renegade based on anecdotal facts that have convinced them it works. So, whether we are believers, or not, it's all been said. ;)
 

Hib Halverson

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71 04 12 19
I misread your earlier post, "Buccaneer". You did say "Associate". I missed that. I apologize for that mistake.

Thanks for posting some power numbers. Can you post the torque figure? Also were the numbers from an engine dyno or on a chassis dyno? Lastly are they SAE- or Std-corrected?

Would you care to address my other question about port volumes, drivability at low-/mid-range rpm and fuel economy? Also, for CAC members with CFI engines in cars registered in states with exhaust emissions tests, can a stock engine with your intake pass an emissions test such is done in California, Maryland and other states? Or....is the Renegade a off-road/race-only modification?
 

KANE

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I love the idea of EFI and duals (TBs). :cool!:


I really do.:drool:




I'd love to have an intake that was capable of making good power with CFI because of the throwback cool factor that CFI offers. Heck- I would even buy a Renegade right now- yes, even though I don't have the car- because if it works even just a little better than stock, it would be worth holding on to until I had a car. I'd settle up later in terms of getting a car that it would fit on (ie- an L83 '82). It wouldn't be the first time I acquired parts for a car I didn't yet have. :D


So... kudos to Buc for getting it in production and having folks lined up who are buying it. That takes a dream and determination. I can respect a guy who is willing to take that kinda risk and be a success.
 

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