Shell Rotella T oil for Flat Tappet Engines?

[Mitch]

I went to Wal-Mart to buy this oil, because so many seem to swear by it for use in Flat Tappet engines because of the zinc (ZDDP) content. But no where on the bottle did I see anything about ZDDP. So I come home and do a little research on it and find that Shell Rotella T no longer has it with ZDDP. If this is true, then what brand locally has it with ZDDP? And is there one with A 10W30 weight?

 

[baxsom]

where did you read that at? all the reports i have read here say that even the new forumla still has more than enough zinc than is necesssary.

an alternative would be the mobil1 15w50
their website says it has 1200ppm zinc for flat tappet engines.

here is a site that lists some locally available oils with 1200 or more ppm
http://www.78ta.com/smf/index.php?topic=8863.msg119397

 

[duke94]

I dump in a bottle of Comp Cams break in lube at every oil change.

 

[baxsom]

I dump in a bottle of Comp Cams break in lube at every oil change.

i do the same thing just in case, only i use the zddp plus additive.
supposedly amsoil 10w40 has plenty of zddp in it already but its hella expensive and i hate waiting on the mail.

 

[Vette79]

I use the ZDDP additive as well. Buy it right off eBay. Some oils do still have ZDDP in it.

 

[NORTY]

I dump in a bottle of Comp Cams break in lube at every oil change.

This will degrade Rotella T's performance. Don't do it.

 

[NORTY]

If anyone has questions regarding any of Shell's lubricants (This includes Quakerstate & Pennzoil,) they can call Shell's Tech Center @ 1-800-231-6950. This number isn't a sales pitch (it's the technical number) but they can answer any questions you can dream up regarding tribology. 9-5 central time. Just because an oil has a lower (or higher) amount of something, doesn't mean it won't protect as long (or longer.)

Rimula with a lower TBN as an example.


Yes, I am a tribologist..

 

[duke94]

This will degrade Rotella T's performance. Don't do it.

I use it with regular Pensoil.

 

[Mitch]

where did you read that at? all the reports i have read here say that even the new forumla still has more than enough zinc than is necesssary.

an alternative would be the mobil1 15w50
their website says it has 1200ppm zinc for flat tappet engines.

here is a site that lists some locally available oils with 1200 or more ppm
Best off the shelf oil additive for ZDDP

I was on the Ford Muscle forum and saw this link:
Oils: What motor oil should I use? Which oil is best for my Porsche or aircooled engine?

Can I use a diesel oil like Rotella to break in my engine?
Many cam manufacturers have recommended Rotella T in the past for cam break in. Remember, this was the CI-4 Rotella T some manufacturers were recommending, not the new CJ-4 Rotella. Be advised that we do not recommend the continued use of the new CJ-4 Rotella T for cam break-in or any other CJ-4 oil for this purpose. Additionally in support of this position, magazines such as Fleet Equipment, in one such article "Focusing on Oil," stated that CJ-4 oils should only be used in 2007 and later diesel engines and that earlier diesel or mixed fleet engines should remain on CI-4 oils.

 

[Hib Halverson]

There are a number of urban legends in this thread which are bad information. What follows will attempt to correct them.

1) Shell Rotella T has 1100 PPM ZDP. That is more than adequate to lubricate most any flat tappet, OHV valvetrain.

2) That ZDP has been removed from Rotella T is incorrect information. In fact, the idea that all ZDP has been removed from engine oil in general is a laughable myth propagated by the additive makers. It is true that, in some but not all cases, ZDP content has been reduced, but it has not been eliminated. In other cases, it remains at high levels.

3) As for diesel engine oils, specifically, there are rumors in the hobby that the spec for diesel engine oil is soon to change and that will eliminate or dangerously reduce ZDP. That's another freakin' fairly tale. While CF-5 has yet to be announced, the ILSAC-Oil Committee has stated that the new spec will retain the CF-4 limit on ZDP.

4) If the application is an OHV, flat-tappet engine with any modifications to the valvetrain which increase pressure at the lifter/lobe interface beyond stock, both Shell Rotella T 10W30 and Chevron Delo 400 LE 10W30 are cost effective choices for engine oil offering long term durability. Shell is the best of the two because it's the one that's available in quarts.

5) The statement above...

I dump in a bottle of Comp Cams break in lube at every oil change.

...is foolish and dangerous advice.:bash

You are far better to use the right oil to begin with.

That said, additives are deeply-rooted in automotive culture and some Vettesters, regardless of the facts, will insist on "fortifying" mass-marketed engine. If that's you, at least pick one with known contents. That way, you can add the correct amount to gain the appropriate phosphorous level.

"Cam Break-In" from COMP Cams was engineered as a break-in supplement and not as an additive for regular use. While not intended as an additive to boost an existing oil's EP lubricity in regular use, it can improve oils with low phos content provided it's used properly. I analyzed it and found: 1) it's active ingredient is molybdenumdithiophosphate ("MolyDTP") rather than ZDP and 2) its nominal phosphorous content is 8400 PPM. "Cam Break-In" has way too much MolyDTP in it to be used one bottle per oil change. In fact, mixed to that concentration, in long term use, you may damage your engine. If you insist upon trying to fortify a ILSAC GF-4/API SM oil, which typically are at about 700 PPM phos., add 1 1/2-oz of COMP break-in additive per quart of oil to bring a GF-4 to 1100-1200 PPM phos. Once you get beyond 1500-1700 PPM in a street duty cycle, you risk long-term damage to to accelerated "chemical wear" of the cam and lifters.

6) The statement above...

I use the ZDDP additive as well. Buy it right off eBay.

...is just as dangerous.:bash

There are no standards of any kind for "ZDDP additives". You buy off eBay and you know no idea how much ZDP (if any) is in an additive or how other components in the additive will interact with the oil into which it's introduced. It is not wise to use any ZDDP additive. There are plenty of oil choices that have superior extrememe pressure (EP) lubrication. But...if you insist on an additive, see my above comments about using one for which content information is known.

7) The statement above...

an alternative would be the mobil1 15w50
their website says it has 1200ppm zinc for flat tappet engines.

...is correct in that M1 15W50 is an "alternative". Problem is: it's not a good alternative. No Corvette engine...well, other than maybe a few very unusual race engines...needs a 15W50. In most cases, 50wt oils increase engine oil temperature and decrease oil pump reliability/durability. The best choice is a 10W30. If you insist on a "Mobil 1" branded product with high ZDP, the one to use in most cases is "High Mileage" 10W30 which has 1000 PPM ZDP.

8) For pre-86 engines with stock valvetrains which are in fully broken-in and in good condition, you don't need any special oil.

9) The problem comes when you make mods to the engine which increase static or dynamic pressures at the lobe/lifter interface over O.E. levels or you use a cam or lifters which are not manufactured to the same specs as OE. Examples are aftermarket "OE-replacement" cams which are not properly phosphated, aftermarket cams with any profile more aggressive than stock, aftermarket lifters from questionable sources, higher-ratio rocker arms and aftermarket valve springs. Once you and any of those parts, you need to use an oil with 800-1200 PPM ZDP.

10) Suggestions for flat tappet engines in all but the most aggressive, all-out, racing applications:

Good Shell Rotella T 10W30 (1100PPM phos), Chevron Delo 400LE 10W30 (1100 PPM phos), Mobil 1 "High-Mileage" 10W30 (1000 PPM phos)

Better Valvoline VR-1 10W30, Joe Gibbs Driven "Hot Rod" 10W30. (both 1200 PPM phos)

Best Red Line Synthetic Engine Oil 10W30 (ester-based and 1200 PPM phos)

 

[Hib Halverson]

I was on the Ford Muscle forum and saw this link:
Oils: What motor oil should I use? Which oil is best for my Porsche or aircooled engine?

Can I use a diesel oil like Rotella to break in my engine?
Many cam manufacturers have recommended Rotella T in the past for cam break in. Remember, this was the CI-4 Rotella T some manufacturers were recommending, not the new CJ-4 Rotella. Be advised that we do not recommend the continued use of the new CJ-4 Rotella T for cam break-in or any other CJ-4 oil for this purpose. Additionally in support of this position, magazines such as Fleet Equipment, in one such article "Focusing on Oil," stated that CJ-4 oils should only be used in 2007 and later diesel engines and that earlier diesel or mixed fleet engines should remain on CI-4 oils.

For the purposes of lubrication of Corvette flat-tappet, OHV engines, ignore what you read in the heavy-duty trade press.

The current CJ4 Shell Rotella T 10W30 has 1100 PPM ZDP, more than enough to lubricate virtually all flat tappet engines used in a Vette.

You can use Shell Rotella T for break-in and normal use, however, with respect to break-in do two things: 1) observe the cam company's instructions for camshaft pre-lube and installation and 2) in the first crankcase of oil, use a bottle of Crane's or COMP's break-in additive. At the first oil change, revert to just using Shell Rotella or any of the other 10W30 products I discussed above in "suggestions".

 

[baxsom]

6) The statement above...

...is just as dangerous.:bash

There are no standards of any kind for "ZDDP additives". You buy off eBay and you know no idea how much ZDP (if any) is in an additive or how other components in the additive will interact with the oil into which it's introduced. It is not wise to use any ZDDP additive. There are plenty of oil choices that have superior extrememe pressure (EP) lubrication. But...if you insist on an additive, see my above comments about using one for which content information is known.

this is the zddp plus additive that he is referring to.it is just sold on ebay but it is also available at corvette central, ecklers etc.
ZddPlus - ZDDP Oil Additive for Classic Cars

it has been talked about a lot here as a great idea and a good thing for your engine. also comp cams says to use their break in lube at each oil change. COMP Cams: CAMSHAFT BREAK-IN LUBE=

7) The statement above...

...is correct in that M1 15W50 is an "alternative". Problem is: it's not a good alternative. No Corvette engine...well, other than maybe a few very unusual race engines...needs a 15W50. In most cases, 50wt oils increase engine oil temperature and decrease oil pump reliability/durability. The best choice is a 10W30. If you insist on a "Mobil 1" branded product with high ZDP, the one to use in most cases is "High Mileage" 10W30 which has 1000 PPM ZDP.

considering i have seen oil analysis that shows 50 weight shear down to 30 weight at a 3000 mile interval wouldnt 30w shear to almost 0 in the same amount of time.

i will however admit that it was 50w used in a wet clutch motorcycle so that may have been part of the issue.

you also said here when someone asked about 15w50 being too thick for summer you say no.
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com...nce/95060-mobil-1-15w50-too-thick-summer.html

so not trying to start trouble or anything but i would really like to know. i use 15w50 mobil 1 by the drum, i have it in both of my sportbikes and if i can use it in the vette and the mustang that would be great. saves me from haviing to buy oil for a long time

 

[motorman]

if you access to december 2007 issue of the GM techline read all about it there. this is straight from GM oil experts

 

[Vette79]

There are no standards of any kind for "ZDDP additives". You buy off eBay and you know no idea how much ZDP (if any) is in an additive or how other components in the additive will interact with the oil into which it's introduced. It is not wise to use any ZDDP additive. There are plenty of oil choices that have superior extrememe pressure (EP) lubrication. But...if you insist on an additive, see my above comments about using one for which content information is known.

(ester-based and 1200 PPM phos)

Hmmm, so adding ZDDP Plus additive to a 5qt oil change to potentially restore ZDDP specs to SF levels is foolish when using a known oil low with ZDP? Nothing has been said so far that shows that ZDDP Plus additive doesn't work. I agree that we should all use an oil with the appropriate ZDP level and not use an additive if you don't have to.

ZDDP motor oil additive

 

[Mitch]

Interesting video:
Jay Leno's Garage

Meanwhile...:W...shoot, Hib mentioned the GOOD, the BETTER and the BEST. I think I'll just go with the BETTER...and ride off into the sunset. The BETTER being Valvoline VR-1 10W30. I think I can get that locally. I think!

 

[Vette79]

What about GM EOS as an additive?

Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue​

​

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]

Valvoline Racing VR1: 75% higher zinc than SM engine oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: SAE 20W-50 (part vv211), straight SAE 50 (part vv235), SAE 10W-30 (part vv205), SAE 30(part vv223), SAE 40 (part vv229), and SAE 60 (part vv241)


Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the engine oil where it protects the engine, instead of poisoning the catalytic converter. Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across its entire line of passenger car engine oils, including SynPower which is the only synthetic offering this additive. www.valvoline.com​

[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[sofast4u]

ZDDP oil

Racing oil all have ZDDP in it and you can get it in different weight

I went to Wal-Mart to buy this oil, because so many seem to swear by it for use in Flat Tappet engines because of the zinc (ZDDP) content. But no where on the bottle did I see anything about ZDDP. So I come home and do a little research on it and find that Shell Rotella T no longer has it with ZDDP. If this is true, then what brand locally has it with ZDDP? And is there one with A 10W30 weight?

 

[g-force junky]

bobistheoilguy.com.....will, answer, way, too many questions concerning any petroleum product

 

[Hib Halverson]

Racing oil all have ZDDP in it and you can get it in different weight

The problem with "racing oil" is that not all racing oils are suitable for street use. Yes, all of them have higher levels of ZDP but, also, many racing oils have either no or greatly reduced levels of detergents and some racing oils have too much ZDP for street use.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Hmmm, so adding ZDDP Plus additive to a 5qt oil change to potentially restore ZDDP specs to SF levels is foolish when using a known oil low with ZDP?

Precisely.

Why...because 1) you don't know how much ZDP is in such products and 2) you don't know the compatibility of the other components in the product have with engine oil.

The smart thing to do is stop using an engine oil that is "....low with ZDP." and use one with the right amount, of which there are many.