Shell Rotella T oil for Flat Tappet Engines?

[Hib Halverson]

snip

you also said here when someone asked about 15w50 being too thick for summer you say no.
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com...nce/95060-mobil-1-15w50-too-thick-summer.html

I think you ought to read that posting again but try not to distort it's meaning.

The person posting asked if the oil was too thick to use in the summer. I answered that it was not.

Had the question been "Is 15W50 the right oil to use" or "What do you recommend", I'd have answered 10W30 is the best choice and that a 15W50 increases oil temperature and increases the load on the oil pump, both situations which are not advantageous to best durability, but...pose no threat in short term use.

As for your Mustang and your Corvette using the same oil as your sport bikes, my earlier suggestions about 10W30 are my answers. I'll add that if you can afford a Mustang, Corvette and multiple sport bikes, I don't understand your concern about the cost of the right engine oil? Use a good synthetic in the Camaro and the Mustang and you can go 10,000-15,000 miles between drains as long as you change the filter every 5000.

 

[Hib Halverson]

What about GM EOS as an additive?

EOS should not be used as an engine oil additive to raise ZDP content.

Again, if you select the right oil, you DO NOT need an additive.

 

[Vette79]

This subject is obviously important and frequently debated. Overall, what would be the best Synthetic oil to use that met the needed requirements of ZDP? Valvoline SynPower?

 

[Vette79]

Here is a response from Valvoline concerning their products and ZDP:

Our Valvoline SynPower Full Synthetic products only contain 850ppm of Zinc, but if you don't mind us asking, why do you need so much Zinc, if the vehicle is not high performance. Stock applications only require about 750ppm of Zinc to be safe for the cam wear. High performance applications with oversize cams and extra added horsepower will require about 1200ppm of Zinc. Valvoline does not make a synthetic product available for these applications, as we recommend our Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil, which contains 1300ppm of Zinc and 1200ppm of Phosphorus.

 

[Hib Halverson]

This subject is obviously important and frequently debated. Overall, what would be the best Synthetic oil to use that met the needed requirements of ZDP? Valvoline SynPower?

"Overall" the "best synthetic oil to use that met the needed requirements of ZDP" is Red Line 10W30. While it's the best choice, IMO; I'll admit that it's expensive and the cost is why some people won't use it.

If I wanted to use a Valvoline product in a flat-tappet engine which has any valve train modifications which increase the load at the lobe/lifter interface beyond OE levels, I'd use Valvoline VR-1 10W30. It's a synthetic oil. While it's branded a "racing oil" it has the detergents and corrosion inhibiters necessary for street use and it has 1200 PPM phos.

If you want a Valvoline product for a flat-tappet engine with a stock valvetrain that's fully-broken in and is in good condition, the Valvoline's recommendation above, "SynPower" (with 750 PPM phos) is an acceptable choice.

 

[Vette79]

"Overall" the "best synthetic oil to use that met the needed requirements of ZDP" is Red Line 10W30. While it's the best choice, IMO; I'll admit that it's expensive and the cost is why some people won't use it.

If I wanted to use a Valvoline product in a flat-tappet engine which has any valve train modifications which increase the load at the lobe/lifter interface beyond OE levels, I'd use Valvoline VR-1 10W30. It's a synthetic oil. While it's branded a "racing oil" it has the detergents and corrosion inhibiters necessary for street use and it has 1200 PPM phos.

If you want a Valvoline product for a flat-tappet engine with a stock valvetrain that's fully-broken in and is in good condition, the Valvoline's recommendation above, "SynPower" (with 750 PPM phos) is an acceptable choice.

I can't seem to find the "ppm" of ZDP for Redline. Any idea on 10W40?

 

[Hib Halverson]

Red Line Engine oils are all 1100-1200 PPM.

 

[fine69]

I used Valvoline VR1 with my rebuild and it worked fine particularly with the cam break-in period. I changed the oil after the initial start-up (cam break-in), and then after 500 miles I went with the regular Valvoline (non race) oil. It's been a couple of years now - so far so good....

Ralph

 

[Jack]

Regarding NON-synthetic Rotella T:

I've never seen NON-synthetic Rotella T 10W-30 ... but ... do typicially see NON-synthetic Rotella T in either multigrade 15W-40 or singlegrade 30W.

ZDDP evidence? ... You have to look it up or accept word of those who have.
You want proof? ... send your sample to an independent lab.
Yes, shell will tell you if you ask.
You can find loads of info on web where independent Virgin Oil Analyses published.
Seems "new" Rotella T 15W-40 CJ has about 1200ppm both Zn & P.

Also, I don't recall seeing any brand oil labeled with any info specifying its concentration of ZDDP or any other component.

Two old sayings come to mind:
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink ... and ...
Merry Christmas y'all.

 

[Mitch]

Hey, guys...
I went with Valvoline VR1 RACING OIL SAE 10W-30 motor oil. It's not synthetic and Parts Mart had to order it for me. Picked it up the next day. On the bottle it describes:
* For use in High Performance Passenger Cars and Race cars.
* Friction modifiers help deliver maximum horsepower.
* Enhanced anti-foam system protects the engine even during extreme stress.
* Ashless anti-wear additives and ZDDP provide ultimate wear protection.

* EXCEEDS ENGINE PROTECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR API SERVICES SM/SL/CD and ALL PRECEEDING API GASOLINE CATAGORIES

Thanks for the help!

 

[fine69]

Hey, guys...
I went with Valvoline VR1 RACING OIL SAE 10W-30 motor oil. It's not synthetic and Parts Mart had to order it for me. Picked it up the next day.

Yep... the stuff worked for me. Also check with Advance Auto - I believe they keep it as a regularly stocked item.

Ralph

 

[Vette79]

Yep... the stuff worked for me. Also check with Advance Auto - I believe they keep it as a regularly stocked item.

Ralph

Quite a few places carry VR1. I decided to go with Redline. Probably 10W40. I'll be ordering some over the holidays. Here's a reply from the Redline Rep:

Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, if internal clearances on bearings and pistons are about stock the 10W30 would be a good choice, if a little looser then the 10W40 would be recommended. Our oils still contain sufficient anti-wear for protection of flat tappet cams, 1200ppm phosphorus and 1330ppm zinc.

Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil

 

[Adams' Apple]

Interesting stuff here....
I've been running Delo 400 in my Mercedes diesel for years with no problems, as well as my older 5.7 'Burban w/flat tappet cam. I've seen many articles on the use of the CI vs. CJ diesel oils, and all have stated to use the CI in older engines, and the CJ for the 2005 & up, as the ZDDP has been drastically reduced for the newer engine/emissions requirements. It's still in there, just not as much.
Mr. Halverson's info mirrors all the trade info I have seen recently, and is good info to have.

 

[Jack]

... went with Valvoline VR1 RACING OIL SAE 10W-30 motor oil. It's not synthetic and Parts Mart had to order it for me. Picked it up the next day.

That oil will likely do a good job for you.

Curious if you changed opg sender; if so, did you see a difference?

 

[Bolisk]

My two cents.

I've spent alot of time researching this subject, and for the most part I agree with everthing that Hib has said. However, I would like to through out a few more comments. . .and get feed back from Hib or others.

My research has shown that everything Hib said is true for ENGINE BREAK-IN. i.e first startup (20 minutes of run time at 2,500 RPM), and upto the first 2,000 miles of normal use. AFTER BREAK-IN, I've read that any oil with 800ppm of ZDP was sufficient in an flat tappet engine (e.g. any SL rated motor oil). Does anyone agree with that statment? Royal Purple and Mobil 1 High Milage are both SL rated motor oils.

Lastly is 15w40 to thick for a vette. When I first got my car, I knew that it had LT-1 guts in the 350-350 L46 motor, and I went out and bought the last crates of Shell Rotella-T 15w40 CI4 rated oil. I've been using that for the last year.

-Bolisk

 

[TJay]

Highest rated oils in ZDDP content in order.

Syntec 20/50
Pennzoil 20/50 racing
Quaker State Q racing

 

[Hib Halverson]

My two cents.(snip)

IAFTER BREAK-IN, I've read that any oil with 800ppm of ZDP was sufficient in an flat tappet engine (e.g. any SL rated motor oil). Does anyone agree with that statment?

Mostly "Yes".
If the oil truly is at 800 PPM phosphorous--there are actually very few which are. Most are 600-800 or at 1000 or higher--you're fine with an engine having a stock valvetrain with all parts in good condition. Also, you're ok even with engines having "entry-level" valvetrain modifications such as modest increases in spring pressure, higher ratio rockers with stock springs or a mild street high-performance cam.

Sometimes "No"
An engine with a very aggressive valve train, such as a cam profile with high open and closing accelerations, racing valve springs or high-ratio rockers in combination with even modestly higher spring rates, an oil with 800 phos is going to be really iffy. You'll be better at 1000-1200 PPM phos.

Royal Purple and Mobil 1 High Milage are both SL rated motor oils.

I'm can't speak to Royal Purple because I did not research it, but M1 High-Mileage is an API SL with 1000 PPM phosphorous content.

Lastly is 15w40 to thick for a vette.

Well, it depends on the Vette, but that's correct in 95% of the cases.
[/quote]

 

[Hib Halverson]

Highest rated oils in ZDDP content in order.

Syntec 20/50
Pennzoil 20/50 racing
Quaker State Q racing

Please, post the source for that information.

 

[TJay]

Please, post the source for that information.

I found this information about 6 months ago, I will track it down again and post it here for you.

 

[Vette79]

I purchased Redline which in my research showed it to be the best. It's expensive and not readily available over the counter but I may only do a couple of oil changes a year. To me, it's worth it.