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Spark Plug Replacement - Success!

Rogue

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2003
Messages
312
Location
Orange County, CA
Corvette
1991 Turquoise Metallic Coupe
GMJunkie, thank you man!

I was finally able to replace all eight of my 1991's spark plugs! SUCCESS!!
I was having the most difficult time replacing the last spark plug in Cylinder #2, the one on the passenger's side closest to the front of the car. I tried everything short of removing that damn AC Compressor! Well, GMJunkie gave me a simple point: remove the middle section of the wheelwell splash guard. EUREKA! It took me all of 10 minutes to remove that splash guard, and viola! I had easy access to that mother of all spark plug locations in the C4! :thumb

PS: The only bummer was, I discovered a few missing screws in the area that the dealership mechanic failed to put back on. WTF? :mad It wasn't causing any problems but WTF is wrong with mechanics today? Are they THAT lazy to put all the screws back in the same place after they service the car? Unbelievable! I had to go get the screws and replace them. I even saw one of the radiator fan frame support screw missing! It really boggles my mind. This is why my Corvette will NEVER go to another mechanic again! If it does, I will double check their work before I leave the premises!
 
GMJunkie, thank you man!

I was finally able to replace all eight of my 1991's spark plugs! SUCCESS!!
I was having the most difficult time replacing the last spark plug in Cylinder #2, the one on the passenger's side closest to the front of the car. I tried everything short of removing that damn AC Compressor! Well, GMJunkie gave me a simple point: remove the middle section of the wheelwell splash guard. EUREKA! It took me all of 10 minutes to remove that splash guard, and viola! I had easy access to that mother of all spark plug locations in the C4! :thumb

PS: The only bummer was, I discovered a few missing screws in the area that the dealership mechanic failed to put back on. WTF? :mad It wasn't causing any problems but WTF is wrong with mechanics today? Are they THAT lazy to put all the screws back in the same place after they service the car? Unbelievable! I had to go get the screws and replace them. I even saw one of the radiator fan frame support screw missing! It really boggles my mind. This is why my Corvette will NEVER go to another mechanic again! If it does, I will double check their work before I leave the premises!

Yeah, you have to watch out for that. Allways go over any work you have done. I also hate it when they loose something and replace it with something in the shop and not tell you.

I had my Firebird at a shop years ago for something. Later on I pop the hood and noticed there was a regular type nut instead of the factory wing nut put on for the TBI aircleaner. I called the shop to find out why they replaced the nut on the aircleaner. And they called back saying the guy had lost the factory nut, so he put on a nut he found in the shop. They ended up ordering me a new nut from the dealer. And I think later on they ended up firing that guy cause I think he would screw up alot.
 
And you NEVER forgot something???????
Mechanics are people too, consider yourself lucky that it was not something important. You learned one of life's lessons, people are fallible and need to be double checked, especially cars, homes, etc...
 
And you NEVER forgot something???????
Mechanics are people too, consider yourself lucky that it was not something important. You learned one of life's lessons, people are fallible and need to be double checked, especially cars, homes, etc...

Theres more to it than just forgetting to put back in a trim screw that you have to watch out for. With regards to my Firebird, I don't think it is acceptable to loose a factory part, and replace it with a non factory part off the floor somewhere and not tell the owner of the car. The guy didn't even put a wing nut back on, just a plain old nut. Which means, it would have cost me money to go replace it cause the guy lost the part. But I had the shop get me a new one since it was their screw up.

For instance in my 89 Vette. I had the tail lights off. And I had to reposition the wiring harness cause someone had unclipped the wiring harness for the taillights and left it laying there. I also found the PO had the power antenna replaced. One of the grounding plates wasn't screwed down. And one of the grounding straps up top wasn't even bolted down. You could see where they had cut off the old ground strap, and left it like that. So, I had to remove the old antennas ground strap, and bolt on the ground strap from the new antenna that was just left dangling. I also noticed the rubber grommet that the wires go through the body of the car wasn't even plugged into the hole. So, I had to fix that. I also noticed they had pulled up the rear carpet to get to the antenna wire on the inside. And they didn't put the carpet back in place. Later on when I had the carpet pulled, I found the carpet retainer clips under the carpet somewhere.

That doesn't sound like a mechanic forgot to do something, just lazy half-assed and incompetent work. I do not trust shops in the slightest. I'm willing to bet there are mechanics out there who tear stuff up and not say anything if they can get away with it.

In my 89 Firebird years ago. I had a water pump replaced. Then the next day or so, I noticed coolant squirting out from the middle of the radiator. Very odd. Right where you would be sticking tools at to get the water pump off. Called the shop up as obviously the guy had poked the radiator. Though, they wouldn't replace the radiator for free. I had to buy a new radiator, but the guy at the counter said he would install it for free.

I also know when I got the first oil change for my Vette. Before it wasn't leaking oil. Took it to the dealer, and after they changed the oil, they came to tell me it was leaking from the drain plug. So, they blamed it on some dent under the oil pan even though it wasn't leaking before. I believe the mechanic tightened the bolt down too much causing it to then leak. I had to get a new oil pan put on, so I took it elsewhere.
 
And you NEVER forgot something???????
Mechanics are people too, consider yourself lucky that it was not something important. You learned one of life's lessons, people are fallible and need to be double checked, especially cars, homes, etc...
When you are performing a service (regardless of what that service may be) there is a certain level of professionalism that is expected and deserved. This seems to be absent from today, in general, and it is sad, but true.

Car dealers, mechanics, whatever, whoever, do it to themselves when deficient work is performed. Have I made mistakes and forgot to do things on my car? Of course, but I am not doing it for a living and charging somebody good money, that is the difference. When you pay somebody to perform a given service, you are also expecting great results and nothing less.

CG
 
When you are performing a service (regardless of what that service may be) there is a certain level of professionalism that is expected and deserved. This seems to be absent from today, in general, and it is sad, but true.

Car dealers, mechanics, whatever, whoever, do it to themselves when deficient work is performed. Have I made mistakes and forgot to do things on my car? Of course, but I am not doing it for a living and charging somebody good money, that is the difference. When you pay somebody to perform a given service, you are also expecting great results and nothing less.

CG

Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. When you pay someone, a mechanic, a shop or whoever to perform work on your car. And they leave pieces off, don't install something correctly, break stuff or whatever. I don't find that to be acceptable. Especially when they try to deny liability or refuse to fix their mistake.

I mean, if you find they leave bolts or pieces off on a repair, are you gonna then let the guy rebuild your engine? Haha.

I do remember of a guy had a new Z06 Vette and the dealer hydrolocked his engine. I seem to remember the dealer tried to screw him on it. Here is the thread:

GM Dealer Hydrolocked my motor doing an Oil Change - Corvette Forum
 
And you NEVER forgot something???????
Mechanics are people too, consider yourself lucky that it was not something important. You learned one of life's lessons, people are fallible and need to be double checked, especially cars, homes, etc...

I forget things sure. But NOT when I'm wrenching! :eyerole

Sure, I've put something back together then realized I forgot to install this or that, so what do I do? I put whatever I forgot back in! How hard can it be? I'm talking about missing a screw! You put a part back in and you have stray screw or a hole without a screw and then what? You just walk away? Saying that they are "people too" is not an excuse!

A professional mechanic should take precautions not to forget things. Also, if you wrench for a living you should be conscious of what you are doing at all times. I've had my motorcycles and cars worked on by mechanics in the past....more than half the time they miss something and it's usually a fastener here and there. It is prevalent. I'm not a professional mechanic yet I always manage to put all the fasteners back in. Go figure!
 
I also know when I got the first oil change for my Vette. Before it wasn't leaking oil. Took it to the dealer, and after they changed the oil, they came to tell me it was leaking from the drain plug. So, they blamed it on some dent under the oil pan even though it wasn't leaking before. I believe the mechanic tightened the bolt down too much causing it to then leak. I had to get a new oil pan put on, so I took it elsewhere.

I hear ya.

Back in the days I took my Corvette to the dealership, I had them diagnose a non-working coolant temp gauge. In addition to diagnosing it wrong and having me pay dearly for "repairing the gauge cluster", they also shut the hood with the fuse box still open!!!!

I heard this rattle under the hood, so I got home and opened the hood. The whole fuse box had broken off its mounts, and its lid was not snapped on. I called the dealer and they at first told me it was like that when I brought it in. I threatened to sue them and had to elevate it to their dealership General Manager before they agreed to replace the whole fuse box free of charge! Never went back there again.

I can tell other stories, some minor some bad ones on my motorcycles and other cars! But I think we've all been there and done that and have the T-shirt to show for it!
 
I hear ya.

Back in the days I took my Corvette to the dealership, I had them diagnose a non-working coolant temp gauge. In addition to diagnosing it wrong and having me pay dearly for "repairing the gauge cluster", they also shut the hood with the fuse box still open!!!!

I heard this rattle under the hood, so I got home and opened the hood. The whole fuse box had broken off its mounts, and its lid was not snapped on. I called the dealer and they at first told me it was like that when I brought it in. I threatened to sue them and had to elevate it to their dealership General Manager before they agreed to replace the whole fuse box free of charge! Never went back there again.

I can tell other stories, some minor some bad ones on my motorcycles and other cars! But I think we've all been there and done that and have the T-shirt to show for it!

Yeah, that's BS trying to act like it was already broken. Did they try saying it was already broken? Or that the lid was already open when you got there, so they left it open?

I had my 89 Firebird up at the dealer a year ago cause my dad had given me a cheap oil change coupon for the dealer. So, I was like what the hell. They found a rear pinion seal leak. And I forget exactly how much they said. But it was something around $120 if not more.

I checked around other shops and got quoted half that price. I was up at the dealer a little while later and talked with the service writer about how I could have someone else do it for half their price. So I asked, why should I pay double and have them fix it. She said they have ASE certified techs. Haha. I left. Every damn shop advertises about how they have ASE certified techs.

But from what I've heard. Dealers have cut back on the ASE techs, and have non-ASE techs do the work, but they are overseen by an ASE tech. Don't know if there is any truth to that. But just because a shop has an "ASE certified" sign on their building doesn't mean an ASE certified tech is working on your car.
 
...I checked around other shops and got quoted half that price. I was up at the dealer a little while later and talked with the service writer about how I could have someone else do it for half their price. So I asked, why should I pay double and have them fix it. She said they have ASE certified techs. Haha. I left. Every damn shop advertises about how they have ASE certified techs...

;squint:

I believe I've heard the phrase "stealerships" used to describe the unscrupulous places before.
 
GMJunkie, thank you man!
No Problem Dude,Glad to have helped!!:thumb
PS: The only bummer was, I discovered a few missing screws in the area that the dealership mechanic failed to put back on. WTF? :mad It wasn't causing any problems but WTF is wrong with mechanics today? Are they THAT lazy to put all the screws back in the same place after they service the car? Unbelievable! I had to go get the screws and replace them. I even saw one of the radiator fan frame support screw missing! It really boggles my mind. This is why my Corvette will NEVER go to another mechanic again! If it does, I will double check their work before I leave the premises!
Thats just the Norm anymore,It's not about Quality,It's more about Get it in,Get it half a$$ed running and Get the $$$$!:thumb:thumb:thumb

Mechanics are people too, consider yourself lucky that it was not something important.
Especially in Vero,;)
90% of the Automotive Technicians drink their Lunch at the "Bamboo Lounge" South US1,Morgan Horse Lounge" 7th Ave at 21st St, "Linnie's Tap" 43rd at SR60 or "Earls Hide a Way" in Sebastian!! :D


PS. "Steve Wallen", Parts Mgr at Rodger Dean Chevrolet in Vero is 1 of the best GM parts men that ever walked the face of the earth!!:thumb:thumb:thumb


And anybodies welcome to come and Inspect my work anytime!!
:thumb:thumb:thumb
 
I'm not going to disagree with a lot of things said about technicians/mechanics on this thread. However, I will make a point to say, we don't all do shoddy, half butted work. I am one and I know about many of the things you are talking about. I have seen some very shady things in my short time. I don't like that stuff one bit. I'm not sure I like the idea of flat-rate either, yes you can make big money, but it encourages shortcuts and half-butted work.

I can speak for my Ford dealership in saying the other techs I work with for the most part don't do half assed work. Some may take "shortcuts" that I don't agree with. I don't agree with how the department is ran or the dealership is ran for that matter.

For instance I did a some work on a used car for another tech that had done the used car check over on it. I found things wrong with it like the A/C clutch was shot, the older more expierenced guy didnt find. When I told my serivice manager that this car had a bad A/C clutch he told me to leave the A/C on, so that it wouldnt make noise. :pukeYou gotta be kidding me. The sales department doesnt want to spend money on fixing up these used cars. They want to sell high and put as little money into them as possible. Then, when we tell them these cars need work, they go around us and sell the car anyway. Then when it comes back and the customer is PI**ED, we get BLAMED!! WTF!!

Know to be completely honest, I make mistakes everyday, most of them insignificant, sometimes I make noticeable mistakes, very few big ones. If I damage something or something breaks I tell my service advisor/service manager about it. I dont try to hide it. Mistakes happen, if you say you don't make any, your lying. I would like to think that for the most part I do a good job, I stive to do things perfectly.

For the record I hate the idea of service writers, most of them suck, and take what I say and twist it around. I like talking directly to customers, gets me better info, if something goes south I like to be honest, and up front with them.
Junk can probley back me up on this, stuff will break in the process of repairing other concerns from time to time. Stuff breaks, rust and time have a way of messing things up big time. Bolts snap, engine cradles on Windstars rust to pieces, Spring Brakets on Rangers rust so bad that when you take out the rivets it blows a hole in the frame, etc...

I'm done rantingish, and for the record ASE certificaton is nice, but it isnt that hard to get. At least I didnt think so, I passed ALL of mine first time out. A1-A8, I have yet to take Advanced Engine Performance L1, but I scored 47 out 50 on Engine Performance so I can't be THAT dumb.
I have seen a lot of guys in the business that I wouldnt let near my lawn mower. I see three reasons for this: 1-A lot of people are just plain stupid. 2-The schools that teach this stuff stink on ice, read WyoTech. 3-Some of the guys from those schools didnt apply themselves and dont care about learning and doing the best they can.
 
I'm not going to disagree with a lot of things said about technicians/mechanics on this thread. However, I will make a point to say, we don't all do shoddy, half butted work. I am one and I know about many of the things you are talking about. I have seen some very shady things in my short time. I don't like that stuff one bit. I'm not sure I like the idea of flat-rate either, yes you can make big money, but it encourages shortcuts and half-butted work.

I can speak for my Ford dealership in saying the other techs I work with for the most part don't do half assed work. Some may take "shortcuts" that I don't agree with. I don't agree with how the department is ran or the dealership is ran for that matter.

For instance I did a some work on a used car for another tech that had done the used car check over on it. I found things wrong with it like the A/C clutch was shot, the older more expierenced guy didnt find. When I told my serivice manager that this car had a bad A/C clutch he told me to leave the A/C on, so that it wouldnt make noise. :pukeYou gotta be kidding me. The sales department doesnt want to spend money on fixing up these used cars. They want to sell high and put as little money into them as possible. Then, when we tell them these cars need work, they go around us and sell the car anyway. Then when it comes back and the customer is PI**ED, we get BLAMED!! WTF!!

Know to be completely honest, I make mistakes everyday, most of them insignificant, sometimes I make noticeable mistakes, very few big ones. If I damage something or something breaks I tell my service advisor/service manager about it. I dont try to hide it. Mistakes happen, if you say you don't make any, your lying. I would like to think that for the most part I do a good job, I stive to do things perfectly.

For the record I hate the idea of service writers, most of them suck, and take what I say and twist it around. I like talking directly to customers, gets me better info, if something goes south I like to be honest, and up front with them.
Junk can probley back me up on this, stuff will break in the process of repairing other concerns from time to time. Stuff breaks, rust and time have a way of messing things up big time. Bolts snap, engine cradles on Windstars rust to pieces, Spring Brakets on Rangers rust so bad that when you take out the rivets it blows a hole in the frame, etc...

I'm done rantingish, and for the record ASE certificaton is nice, but it isnt that hard to get. At least I didnt think so, I passed ALL of mine first time out. A1-A8, I have yet to take Advanced Engine Performance L1, but I scored 47 out 50 on Engine Performance so I can't be THAT dumb.
I have seen a lot of guys in the business that I wouldnt let near my lawn mower. I see three reasons for this: 1-A lot of people are just plain stupid. 2-The schools that teach this stuff stink on ice, read WyoTech. 3-Some of the guys from those schools didnt apply themselves and dont care about learning and doing the best they can.
I really can't agree more!:thumb:thumb:thumb
Thats why I'm my own GSM,WSM,SM and Cheif Technician!!:thumb
:D:D:D
 
93 Rubie, and GMJunkie, you guys are the kind of Techs we need more of out there. And yes, I do hate the 3rd party information from the Service Writers. Some SW's just suck, some are good. I think you should be a Tech BEFORE you can become a SW.

I fully understand that stuff breaks, especially old stuff. I understand and accept people make mistakes, I sure have too. But if it happens, say something! Be honest! It is so refreshing to hear honesty nowadays, you are forgiven the moment you said it! Now all you have to do is fix the problem and do it right. I am always honest with the Service Writers when I say, "Don't rush it, just do it right!" If the work gets delayed, call and let me know. If it's going to cost more, call and let me know. Whatever it is BE HONEST and up front! That's all I ask. I will NEVER get upset. What will get me upset is hiding things or doing a half-a$$ed job. Because I started to do a fair amount of wrenching myself, I have a pretty good idea of what to check now. So I'm probably the worst kind of customer! :L My standards are higher than the average Joe.

93Rubie, I used to work for a Ford Dealership, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about! I know what happens to dealer trade-ins and how they are "prepped" before being sent out into the showroom. Used cars are money makers! More so than new cars! I also fully understand that some used cars require a lot of work, and sometimes too much work to make it a profitable endeavor to sell. If that's the case, the right thing to do is to fix it and sell and take the loss, or don't fix it and wholesale it. Most of the time a dealership will not fix and still sell. I have been on the receiving end of that dilema and it is disappointing to say the least. I have also was instructed to sell questionable used cars that I thought needed work. Thank goodness I did not actually sell those cars to anyone and only sold cars I myself would buy.

It is an ugly business that is ripe for a change. Honesty and integrity. We need more of that to go around.
 
I do remember years ago I kept getting a code 32 in my 89 Firebird. A shop replaced the EGR and later on I still got a code 32. And I told the shop about it, and they said they'd have to replace the EGR again. I didn't bother with it.

Many years later, I tried checking the EGR, and it failed to hold open under my vacuum gun. So, I pulled it to discover the shop had put in a positive EGR valve instead of a negative EGR valve that is supposed to be on there. So, I put the correct negative EGR valve on that I got from thepartsladi. And now I don't get the code 32 when I'm going down the interstate.
 
I learned a while back that it is best to do the work yourself.

One other thing is that our C4's are not getting younger. Many of them have already been junked or driven to the ground. Even fewer ever get taken for repairs and simply driven until they die. So mechanics have become even less adept at servicing them. It's not like they have a Service Manual for the C4! Maybe they have an online resource, I sure hope so! But do would they even bother to look? I have a service manual for all my bikes and my C4 so I know what the hell I'm doing most of the time. When I can't figure something out, I go here for great information! :upthumbs
 
I learned a while back that it is best to do the work yourself.

One other thing is that our C4's are not getting younger. Many of them have already been junked or driven to the ground. Even fewer ever get taken for repairs and simply driven until they die. So mechanics have become even less adept at servicing them. It's not like they have a Service Manual for the C4! Maybe they have an online resource, I sure hope so! But do would they even bother to look? I have a service manual for all my bikes and my C4 so I know what the hell I'm doing most of the time. When I can't figure something out, I go here for great information! :upthumbs

Not going to disagree with your previous post, you hit the nail on the head. I know Ford has some great online and paper format service manuals and such. For some reason my dealer doesn't believe in anything like Alldata (SUCKS, but better than nothing), or Mitchells, etc...so when we get a non Ford used car and it needs something that we need info on, we are so screwed. :eyerole Personally, if I dont know, I ask one of the older guys or look it up. If in doubt, Ford Tech Hotline, let the a-holes that design this crap, figure it out. One thing that really rattles my cage is Ford's SYNC system, I'm the only guy with experience with it, one word; Microsoft,-designed SYNC. :puke:W So many stupid setting, so little time. The SYNC manual is nearly as thick as the Owners Manual. I thought, GM was bad with the Onstar BS...at least SYNC is optional. :mad

FYI, I will not buy a GM vehicle with Onstar, till they get rid of that,sorry GM. If by chance I did buy one new or used. It wouldnt be off the lot and that module would be history. I'll find it and eliminate it. :bash
 
You also have to watch out for the shop who jack the car up wrong. As you can/will get cracks/holes in the front of the floorpan, and dents in the rear of the floorpan if they miss the pinched wells. Or any part of their pucks make contact with the bottom of the floorpan. And that can/will cause seams and things to open up causing firewall leaks.

If they dent the rear of the floorpan in the right spot, it could cause your seat to lean towards the middle of the car.
 
Hey Rogue, I am getting ready to do this myself on my 91. Just curious, I have not checked yet , but what about the front driver side plug, do you need to do the same to access that ??
 
Hey Rogue, I am getting ready to do this myself on my 91. Just curious, I have not checked yet , but what about the front driver side plug, do you need to do the same to access that ??
I remove the rear and center an both sides,Makes them all easier to change,Even # 8!!:thumb
 

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